Aerows has inspired me. My "abortions".

I know my story is long...very long. If you read to the end, I promise to entertain and educate. If not, suffice it to say that if abortion had been illegal I could be, at best, unable to have borne children, and at worst, dead. If abortion BECOMES illegal, my daughter will suffer.

-------------My Story------------------------

I have a balanced chromosome translocation. Without going into too much detail, it means that a piece of one chromosome broke off and traded places with a piece of another that also broke off. And it didn't just "happen" to me. I inherited it from one of my parents, probably my dad. For purposes of procreation, this means that with any pregnancy, I have way more than the normal risk of miscarriage. My risk is 50% over and above the normal 20% risk. So, not surprisingly, my first four pregnancies (that I knew about) ended in miscarriage. And it wasn't until after the third that we figured out what was going on.

Fortunately I had a GREAT doc. When we discovered the first miscarriage at just over 10 weeks, called a "missed" abortion ("abortion" being the medical term for miscarriage), because while the fetus was dead and all of my symptoms had gone away (I thought I was just lucky), I had not begun to bleed. I began to cry on the table during the sonogram when they couldn't find the heartbeat. My doc inserted one of those seaweed sticks that would open my cervix so I could bleed. Then he invited me, sobbing, into his office where he explained a little more about what was happening. He then gave me a big, tender bear hug, and sent me out the back way through his office so that I didn't have to walk past all of the pregnant women in the lobby.

Because I was so far along, it was pretty imperative that I have a D&C to make sure all of the tissue was expelled. Otherwise, infection was too likely, and an infection could have scarred me to the point that I would NEVER be able to conceive, much less deliver a healthy baby. It could also kill me.

After two more miscarriages, one of them also requiring a D&C, my doc finally found an infertility specialist to send me to. She was very methodical, if a little on the nutty side. She talked a lot. She once kept me on the phone for about thirty minutes, the phone I was borrowing from the diner where my husband and I were eating (this was slightly pre-cell-phone). But she was the one who sent my husband and me to a geneticist.

About this time my brother and sister-in-law began having miscarriages also. With that information and some other info about my extended family, the geneticist told us that it sounded like, if there was a genetic problem at all, it was likely a balanced translocation. After about three months of waiting, we got the news that that was exactly what was going on. We even got a picture of the chromosomes. Kinda' cool in a nerdy sort of way. My brother didn't bother being tested. We just assume that he has the same thing I do. I felt so sorry for him, because it was his wife who was suffering the most, at least physically, and he felt it was all his fault. It broke my heart.

Armed with this information, we made a consultation appointment with one of the most famous, well-respected, fertility specialists in the country. Sitting in the conference room at his Denver office, I couldn't help crying as we told him our story. He was used to it, and was very patient. His advice was to take fertility drugs. We could start with Chlomid, commonly referred to as "PMS in a bottle," and move up the complexity scale on drugs if we needed to. The theory was that if we conceived more than one pregnancy (i.e. twins or triplets or more), very common on fertility drugs, there was a much greater likelihood that at least one of them would "take". The next year or so was filled with Chlomid and other drugs, well-timed sex, and a whole lot of tears.

During one particularly frustrating month, we took our medication to another of my brothers's house in Arlington Texas. By now I was on Metrodine (sp?) as the Chlomid had made me "hyper-ovulate" and develop a cyst. My husband had to inject the drug into me, and the drug had to be kept refrigerated. Well, my husband had a cold, my brother's guest-room bed was so squeaky that having sex on it was out of the question--they would have heard us in Dallas--so any possible sex would have to be on the floor, and THIS is when I decided to ovulate. Needless to say, we didn't conceive that month, and had to go get another month's worth of Metrodine for another $1000, and try again in January.

I had one more abortion, this one also requiring a D&C. Fortunately, for this one, they put me under completely so that they could also do a laparoscopy and clean out any possible endometriosis. By this time I had joined a support group for women with infertility issues. The big difference between them and me was that at least I had a diagnosis. All of the other women in the group faced "unexplained" infertility. I felt bad for them. They felt bad for me. It was a great group, and I still exchange Christmas cards with a couple of them. But we largely sat around crying for each other and for ourselves.

We visited my brother and sister-in-law in Austin that year. One night out at my favorite pizza-place in the world, Conan's Pizza, only in Austin, we sat around commiserating about our problems conceiving. My brother broke out with "Have you guys had to try to have sex at {our other brother's} house? The damn bed is so squeaky you have to do it on the floor!" My husband and I burst out laughing.

When I got pregnant again, i braced myself for another miscarriage. My nutty Doctor, to whom I will always be grateful, had me get blood drawn every three days during the first trimester so she could monitor the hormones and make sure i didn't need a supplement. When the HCG (Human Growth Hormone) failed to increase at one point, I was positive I would have another miscarriage. But lo and behold, the HCG began to rise again. We think that I had indeed conceived two pregnancies, but one of them wasn't viable. At fifteen weeks I had an amniocentesis procedure to check on the chromosomes. Not until we got the results--I was almost twenty weeks along--did we find out for sure. It was a boy, and he had no translocation. I balled.

My son Andy was born on June 13, 1996. He's fifteen now.

Jim and I decided that we would continue to try to conceive again, but without the drugs. If it didn't happen, Andy would be an only child, and that would be fine.

But we really wanted one more child. I had another miscarriage and another D&C. We almost gave up. But when I got pregnant again, and made it to the fifteenth week, we went in for amniocentesis again. This time the results showed that I was carrying a baby girl. She would be fine, but her chromosome mapping showed that she, too, has the balanced translocation, meaning she will have the same difficulty with pregnancy that I and her aunt and uncle have had. She was our miracle baby. She's thirteen now, and the absolute light of our lives along with her brother.

About a year after Leejay (short for Natalie Jane, named after both of her grandmothers) was born, I got pregnant one last time. When I went in for my seven-week appointment, they did the first sonogram. They couldn't' find a heartbeat. I began to cry, but they assured me that it was still early and hearing the heartbeat is not always possible that early. I told them that I had noticed some of my symptoms going away, so I knew. But still they assured me that every thing was probably fine. But I knew.

When I began to bleed, I called the doc--not the nutty one; a different OB. She first apologized profusely for not comforting me during the appointment. I certainly did not hold a grudge. She was only doing what her training dictated. She said I was right on the border of needing a D&C, as opposed to just "letting" myself expel all of the blood and tissue. D&C's are no fun. They are painful and emotionally draining. I had never been this far along without a D&C, but I decided to try it. I told her I would prefer not to have the procedure this time.

BIG MISTAKE. As painful as the D&C is, the miscarriage was ten times more so. I woke up in the middle of the night with horrible cramps. I went into the bathroom, but didn't quite make it to the toilet before all of the blood and tissue began to come out. I knew I would need my husband to watch the kids the next day, so I let him sleep. My pelvis cramping, crying uncontrollably, my nightgown stained with blood and tears, I got down on my knees and cleaned up all of the blood and expelled tissue off the floor. Then I put in two maxi-pads, and went back to bed. I didn't sleep at all that night.

After we mourned a bit for the last miscarriage, Jim and I sat down and talked seriously. I told him I would love to have another child, but it was just too painful to go through another miscarry, another D&C, another roller coaster of emotions. I wanted to enjoy my two beautiful children without having to worry about another pregnancy. He was so relieved. We actually cried together, but decided that I would go on the pill, and we would be happy with what we had. And we are. Very.

A year later my sister-in-law gave birth to a healthy boy. Two years later they had a girl. Then they, too, stopped. My sister-in-law had had TEN miscarriages, and I don't know how many D&C's, although I do know there was at least one.

Two of my friends from the support group also began to conceive. One of them now has two kids, the other has four. I'm still in touch with both of them.

My daughter knows about her translocation. She already talks about the possibility of adopting children. She's so smart and so brave, a true inspiration to me.

Without access to the "abortions" that I had, it is very likely that I never would have been able to have children. In fact, I could have died had I developed an infection from unexpelled tissue. In case you lost count, I had four D&C's, and probably should have had a fifth. They are, as I have said, no fun. But I am very grateful that the option was open to me.

It makes me very angry when people talk about abortion, and just assume that everyone who has one is a fifteen-year-old who wants to fit into her prom dress. Never mind that fifteen-year-olds generally have no business bearing children.

In Colorado we have defeated two "personhood" bills. I hope they are gone for good, but the one in Mississippi worries me a lot. If abortion becomes illegal again, my daughter will suffer for it. And it pisses me off that people want to subject her to that suffering.

If you've gotten this far, thanks for reading.

I cannot fathom going through what you went through, once, much less multiple times. You're a strong woman, Kag.

:cry:

A very big K&R so that others may get a chance to read your story.

PB

I must say I was nervous about posting it. But so far the responses have been so supportive. I LOVE DU.

:grouphug:

:hug:

I'm sending you and your family (and your brother's family!) good thoughts right now. Thank you for posting your story.

Wife miscarried, got a D&C, we kept trying, it was frustrating, then we ran out of money and health insurance (because I left the military) and now we'll likely never have children because of her age.

There was a time when we thought it would never happen for us, either. We began trying to look at the bright side. It's not easy, but we just figured we'd be the couple that got to travel more, got to enjoy nieces and nephews, got to eat out more... It was never "okay", but it did help a little.

I will keep you and your wife in my thoughts. Good luck!

:hug:

You are a lot more courageous than I am... And your daughter is amazing. :hug:

These kinds of legislation have zero basis in medical fact, and 100% in pandering to an uneducated, religious base.

I'm glad other people are speaking up about this. Too many people think abortion and birth control is their business - it isn't. It's between a woman and her doctor.

Thank you, Aerows. I truly did write this after reading your post. I was in tears when I thought about what your parents were going through. It hit so close to home.

:hug:

And I'm so happy you were able to have the children you so obviously wanted.

Their mother and father went through hell for them!

To thinks that some Repukes want to investigate women for having miscarriages. What ignoramuses, would they sanction abortion if the baby was a hermaphrodite like a preacher who said it was ok for the Chinese, they aren't Cristian.

Thank you for your story!

I'm sure it was painful to write. I'm 2 miscarriages-1 baby, and they both were devastating (and the D&C horribly painful--and I got an infection anyway). It appalls me that women have been denied basic medical care for somebody's delusion that they were carrying a viable fetus.

One of the details I left out was that the doc who did my second D&C was an ass. When he was finished, he looked over at me, sobbing on the table, and said "Now, that wasn't so bad, was it?" I wanted to punch him! Fortunately, I didn't have to deal with him again after that.

In a weird twist, it turned out that around the same time that same doctor saved the life of the baby of someone who would later become one of my best friends. She will be forever grateful to him, but even she admits he's an asshole when it came to bedside manner.

I am so sorry for your losses. Believe me, I know how you're feeling. So glad you have a child, though. Good luck.

:hug:

extraordinary human being.......just an amazing person, really.......all the best to you and your family. Hopefully, the voters in Mississippi will do the right thing regarding this very serious and important issue.
Respectfully,
Lou

You've introduced the one thing that many Americans, but nearly all conservatives would rather throw themselves from tall buildings than face squarely and honestly - that life and reality are complicated experiences.

:hug:



It just enrages me, how the anti-choice and "personhood" fanatics just have no fucking clue the risks women take, the suffering women endure over reproductive health. They don't know, they gloss over it, they dismiss it, they don't want to know, they don't care. All that matters to them is their oppressive, controlling, ignorant ideology.

We CANNOT let them win. For your daughter's sake, for all women's sake.

WHAT ABOUT THE PRECIOUS BABY YOU'RE CARRYING? (of course they're referring to the fetus)

The abortion issue is reason number, uhm, I don't know maybe 54, something, why I'll never vote Republican in this era or ever.

All this social legislation from the religious right tea baggers that are in power demonstrate they are not conservative. they do not want smaller govt. They want regressive policies toward women, the poor, minorities... what is that other than a regressive view of humanity? Who the hell wants to live in a nation governed by that sort of person?!?!?

and it was awful (turned out - who knew - I had some allergic reaction to something that they put in the anesthesia to prevent nausea, made me fight so hard coming out of it that I had to be restrained and I popped all the blood vessels in my face - I looked like I had purple freckles and because I had fought so hard, every muscle in my body hurt the next day) and the D&C was due to having polyps in my uterus so I was put on the pill after that to prevent them from coming back. I cannot imagine legislation prohibiting me from taking the pill (which also helps for my heavy cramps and bleeding - sorry any men reading this) and putting me back at risk for having those polyps grow back - I would have to have a hysterectomy.

I am lucky, I knew early on in my life I never wanted children. I have some health and family history that makes me more likely to have miscarriages (not as high a risk as you) and I saw the pain my mom went through when she had a miscarriage.

This is so heart breaking, so sorry that you went through this.

Women's health should never be an issue debated or have to take a back seat to some crazy fundi's idea of what pro-life means.

If it were men's health, this wouldn't even be a whisper of discussion.

You are so right. If it were men's health they would not only sanction it, but it would be %100 coverable by insurance.

I've told my daughter that I'll become anti-abortion when it becomes a felony for a man to flush his sperm down the toilet. Or something like that.

:fistbump:

it is a shame that today there are still many who chose to dictate to you and other like you.

that most people understand 'birthing' and how difficult it can be. Compassion is demanded....and so few seem to offer that.

Thank you for sharing your story.

I'm glad your daughter sees adoption as an alternative since we have so many who have no one loving nor caring for them.

eta: can't spell.

both for the information and the heartbreaking roller coaster, it is not easy for many of us to understand.

I've never had to go through that, but have had female troubles my whole life...extreme pain & irregularity even after the birth of my first child (i was too young for the hormones to balance) ovarian cysts from the size of pears to grapefruits, surgery and 2 more pregnancies in my thirties which we in less than ideal conditions (which is always felt bad about, when seeing friends who got to do it 'right' and then my kids were born amidst so much struggle and sorrow), and now fibroids that have me so swollen i look like i am 5 mos pregnant all the time...

Monday i am finally getting a hysterectomy,(keeping my ovaries if i can) and then my time as a fertile woman will end. It is a strange transition. I know I am DONE, but still grieving for the change of a phase of life, and sorry i didn't get to have the pregnancies or birthings that every woman dreams of...but my babies are MINE, and they are great kids now (19, 9 & 8)

so thanks for letting me read your story and share my own as I transition through this time as well :hug:

When I was fourteen, my mom developed cervical cancer. One of the first things they did was give her a hysterectomy. I remember her saying the same thing you said, almost exactly. She said she knew she didn't want to have more children (she had had four, along with one still birth, probably due to the translocation), but it was still sad to know that it COULDN'T ever happen again.

Sadly, she died about eighteen months later. The cancer had spread too much by the time of her diagnosis. Needless to say, I'm religious about my paps!

:hug: Lots of hugging going on in this thread (virtually hugging, that is). I do love DU.

edited for spelling

We don't need fundies to make it harder.

--imm

...very inspiring and touching--on so many levels.

Your positive spirit and uplifting attitude are just remarkable. You've been through
so much, and you were able to handle all of it with such grace--while you were enduring
all of this, and now as you tell your story.

You are an inspiration!

I am glad that someone like you is a mom. Truly, it is terrific when wonderful, good
people have the chance to raise kids.

Thank you for sharing your most personal story.

It is so important to share stories like yours.

I recently had a conversation with a conservative friend - it was quite cordial with both of us discussing our take on issues. I could tell he was trying to bait me a bit... he brought up the death penalty and I described my feelings on it. He smiled slyly and said "oh... but I bet you support abortion...see that's what I think about Liberals - they're hypocrites"

I said... "now hold on - you never even let me answer". I told him to say that I am in favor of abortion is wrong - that I support a woman's right to make medical decisions for herself. I explained to him how when I had an ectopic pregnancy - a pregnancy that I wanted very much, I had to terminate it because it wasn't viable and it put my life and reproductive health at risk. I told him it was coded on the medical records as an abortion. I asked him.. now if a law is passed that makes "abortion" illegal - what do you think is going to happen? He was taken back a bit... I then went on to tell him how a pregnancy is a 9 month medical condition. (well actually 9+ months with the recovery). And sometimes lifetime medical consequences - my mom got pregnant with me at 17 - her dentist told her a few years ago that the reason she has so many problems with her teeth is because of her pregnancy at such an early age. I guess I sucked too much calcium from her.

He then said something like, well, I'm not talking about cases like yours but women who use it like birth control - what do you think about that? Don't you think the father should have a decision too?

I told him that I've known several women who have had elective abortions and none have used it as birth control. It was a hard decision and a very emotional one. The girls or women had to weigh what was going on in their lives at the time, many consulted with the fathers, but not all... the guy's input contributed to a lot of their decisions. The majority of them were not ready to become mothers and were very young.

I told him women have always had abortions and always will... the question is if it is safe. I told him how my great grandmother died from an unsafe abortion. She had 3 children that she was struggling to raise with an absentee/alcoholic husband. She essentially left 3 orphans. My grandmother was only 5 when she lost her mother. I told him to look at the big picture - do you trust women to make their own reproductive and medical decisions or don't you? I think I changed his mind on the issue by expanding the issue for him.

What a great conversation you had! Thank you so much for doing that. It is SO important.

My son, now 15, likes to talk politics. He gets frustrated with my husband and me because sometimes he'll ask us something serious about politics, and we'll reply something flippant like "Because republicans are idiots!"

So he has begun talking to other people about issues, and learning on his own. I am so proud of him I could burst! (And I do TRY not to be so flippant. It just comes out.)

Well, one day he went to the Boulder Creek Festival with me and his sister. He broke off and went out on his own. When we met up again he told me that he had stopped off at a Catholic "Pro-Life" booth to ask them their views. He reported that they told him that in some astronomical number of abortions, something like 50% or more, the woman ends up regretting it.

I told him it was a lie. A bald faced lie. He knows about my experience, but I told him that of all of the people I know who got abortions NEVER regretted it, and were very thankful that they had access to this MEDICAL procedure. He believes me. Thank God! (so to speak) ;-)

He doesn't' quite yet have the wherewithal to argue with people like those fundies, but he's getting there.

I used to worry about those people being able to "convert" him. But he's so militantly environmentalist (he nags my husband and me to turn the thermostat down in the winter so we're not "wasting" fuel), I'm fairly certain that that could never happen.

I'm a nurse and have always been willing to take care of patients having late term abortions. I never saw anyone do it lightly. They grieved.

I live outside of Boulder where Dr. Warren Hern has his office. He's the newest target of the groups that killed Dr. Tiller. I drive by his office frequently and there are almost always people outside "praying". My daughter has begged me to let her go argue with them, but I told her it wouldn't do any good. Truth is, when she's a little older I just might let her.

I think our story is so unique, but at the same time so universal (meaning, virtually everyone has some "unique" story to tell about why they had an abortion. We all have our own stories, and we need to respect them).

The whole point is that it's nobody's business except the woman's. It's her life, her uterus, her decision. And no one else's. She needs to be able to get good information from her doctor. She needs to be able to consult with her husband in the safe knowledge that all of their options are open.

I was sitting around with my brothers once, having a discussion about abortion. We were all raised Catholic, but none of us practice anymore. One of them said, "Well, what about the cases where the father wants to keep the baby, but the woman wants an abortion?"

I very quickly said, "then she should be able to have an abortion."

"Why?" Came the somewhat indignant response.

I Said calmly, "Because it's her body."

Silence. And then my oldest brother who had been listening quietly, and for whom I still have enormous respect and even a little fear, said "Hmm. I never thought of it like that."

Then we talked about something else. :-)

No woman needs to be in a doctor's exam room w/ a boatload of self righteous legislators.



Great to see you :hi: :hi:

:hi:

January!
What?
:wow:
Really?
Yes, really!

I bet you're still good lookin ;)

Thank you.

You as ruggedly handsome as ever.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

:evilgrin:

had a miscarriage with the first baby, D&C was done at about 7 wks.. She just gave birth to my niece on Friday.. without the D&C she may have lost this one too. Its not about saving babies, its about controlling women.

MUST be defeated.

D & C's after miscarriage will always be legal. While medical folk may call miscarriages 'missed abortions' I have never seen anyone introduce any legislation or even suggest legislation banning D & C's after the fetus is dead.

I know many people against legalized abortion, but even the most extreme (those who would ban it even in cases of rape and incest) I know, would not call what you had abortions. Many might take issue with your fertility treatments but not the D & C's. In fact, many of them would have no problem having a D & C under that circumstance themselves.

Their issue is with killing the fetus, not with removing an already dead fetus.

And here is why: The doctors can never be %100 percent sure that the fetus is dead. They make their diagnosis, and they make recommendations, but I was told MANY times that there would always be a small percentage of a chance that the fetus was still alive. In most of the D&C's I had--all except the first--I had already started bleeding. But with that first one, there is no telling how long it could have taken for me to start bleeding on my own.

All of my D&C's went down in the books as "abortions". The fundies (don't you love how your spell checker turns "fundies" into "fun dies?" I just thing that is soooo appropriate.) don't give a crappola whether the fetus is living or dead. They want to STOP D&C's. Period.

Also, one little detail I left out of the story is that my mother once had a stillbirth. No telling how long that "baby" had been dead. Since it was most likely caused by the translocation, if she had had amniocentesis and abortion available to her, she might not have had to go through such a heartbreaking experience.

And another thing. If any of my UNbalanced translocation pregnancies (the ones for which I had "abortions") had gone full term, I was told that the "baby" would probably not be able to live on its own. I would either give birth to a dead baby, or it would be so wrought with defects that it would die very shortly after birth. With access to amnio, I never had to worry about that. My husband and I wouldn't have allowed a pregnancy with an unbalanced translocation to progress that far. We would have gotten an abortion. Fortunately, I never had to make that decision. But also, fortunately, the CHOICE was available to us.

And finally, that bill in Mississippi does not distinguish between living or dead fetuses. It simply states that "life" begins at "conception" (however you define that!). Since no doctor can ever be 100% sure that a fetus is dead, no doctor would ever be willing to put his/her license on the line to do a D&C on ANYONE. Except, probably, for those angels like Dr. Hern in Boulder, who constantly has people standing outside his office "praying" and yelling at people entering to "not KILL their baby."

If anyone had yelled that at me I probably would have LOST IT.

nessa, you cannot presume that "D&Cs after miscarriage will always be legal." As someone noted upthread, these vile pieces of anti-reproductive rights legislation are about controlling women, NOT about protecting our children. If these legislative efforts were TRULY about protecting our children, ours would be a child-centric society, and

~public education would be well funded and free through four years of college or a trade school equivalent,

~parents would have at least six months paid leave to care for their newborn(s),

~the more than 21% of our nation's at-risk children would NOT be living in poverty,

~no child would go to bed hungry, ever, ANYWHERE,

~funding for child protective services nationwide would be totally unnecessary, and

~child sexual abuse would be extremely unlikely rather than pervasive.

(Since I suspect that you're a rabble-rouser and likely gone after you've posted such insupportable drivel, I hope that sometime, somewhere, someone else has the opportunity to refute you to your face...)

It certainly is about controlling reproduction. It certainly will affect fertility treatments. It will affect things like morning after pills and probably most other forms of birth control. It will affect things like invitro fertilization and frozen embryos, but I have never heard or seen any attempt to ban D & C's after miscarriages.

This was only a couple years ago. Luckily that bill didn't go anywhere.

But I don't discount anything anymore...

I had four D&C's. With virtually ALL of them, there was no way to know for sure that the fetus was dead. They can not find the heartbeat, and you may start bleeding. But still, they can't know absolutely. And here's the thing:

NO doctor (except, perhaps those exceptional people who live by their own values rather than those of the loudest among us) is going to risk his license by doing a D&C on a fetus that he can't know for certain is dead.

The whole point of doing the D&C is to keep from having to go through what I did the last time I lost a pregnancy; to keep women from having to scrub blood and tissue off of their bathroom floor while in intense pain in the middle of the night because she just lost a pregnancy that she dearly wanted.

And here is another BIG point: What the hell business is it of ANYONE besides my doctor, husband and me, whether that fetus is alive or dead?

What if I had carried a severely deformed baby to term and had a still birth (as happened to my mother)? With amnio we could tell whether or not the pregnancy would produce a healthy baby, or whether it would produce a baby that could not survive outside the womb.

And IF that fetus will most likely be born dead, I would have RUN to my doctor to get a D&C.

I was only lucky that it never progressed that far. My mom didn't have those options open to her, so she delivered a dead baby. IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT FOR MY DAUGHTER?

Sorry to yell, but you seem to think that my story is not a legitimate one for the "cause" of keeping abortion safe and legal.

How does it help ANY of us--particularly DEMOCRATS--to argue the minutiae of this burgeoning body of anti-reproductive rights legislation? Are you making these assertions because you support these vile attempts to deny reproductive rights? If so, you are not likely to find kindred spirits among progressives, liberals and true Democrats (eg, the RATIONAL members of our species).

The casual visitor off their feet.

I miscarried when I worked in an office where almost everyone smoked. This was in the early seventies. I think the main reason I miscarried was ingesting all that tobacco smoke.

Yet politicians don't care if Big Corporations cause miscarriages. (Especially if those Big Corporations, like Big Tobacco used to be, are campaign supporters.)

In fact, the only factory settings I have ever walked through where I didn't choke on the air were the "clean rooms" of Silicon Valley where the semi-conductor chips are manufactured.

But although those rooms seem to be clean - no heavy smoke in the air from machines or forklifts, the air is actually filled with toxins and those toxins cause women to miscarry or have kids who suffer from major birth defects.

Several Silicon Valley gynecologists stumbled onto this fact when they realized that an above average number of women were in their twenties and early thirties and "not able to conceive." Well, it turned out that these women were conceiving, but their bodies were tossing away the pregnancies as the pollutants these women were consuming at work were just too toxic for any of them to have a healthy pregnancy.

But politicians don't care about that. It's okay - if some manufacturer wants to have a toxic workplace so they can reap millions in profits where women who want to be pregnant are miscarrying - hey, we cannot have regulations stifling business, can we?

but for a nineteen year old to have an abortion so she can go to college and make something of her life - that is an abomination.

That was one scenario that I hadn't considered. I'm so sorry for you loss. This just illustrates my overall stand regarding abortion:

Every woman has a different story. Every woman is unique and deserves the opportunities that we have fought so hard for. I despise those people who lump us all together and claim that all abortions are teenagers who screwed up. (As I said up-thread, never mind that teenagers generally shouldn't be forced into having a child that they neither want nor are able to care for.)

And your point is very well taken. For those who are trying to control us so completely, I seriously doubt that they'd give up their big-screen TV that they got so cheap because China's government DOESN'T care about the health of the woman OR the fetus.

:hug:

One: Abortion rates have gone up considerably since the introduction of "low dose" birth control pills. So more and more young people are getting pregnant, due to the ineffectiveness of the newer birth control pills. (I differ with the RW on the notion of abortion being "sin." If it is sin, then the biggest and best donors to these RW churches are guilty a million times over, for the conditions in their factories causing miscarriages every day of every week. So when the millionaires who own the factories repent, then so will I, for my abortion.)

Yet anthropologists have known for years that "primitive" tribal women in Central and South America have herbal remedies that they grow in their own gardens and that prevent pregnancy for two to three years!

You have to wonder why these herbs are not brought to our country and offered up to help women here.

And thank you for sharing your story.

Medical science means jack squat to the most ardent pro-lifers. Most of them probably don't even know what D&C stands for, just that it's used in abortions and abortions are evil.

Hell, there are still pro-lifers that want to ban BIRTH CONTROL. You can't put anything past them.

The right-wing fundie, Ken Buck, who ran for U.S. Senate against Michael Bennett, supported outlawing abortion even in cases of rape and incest, and even when the mother's life was in danger.

Frighteningly, the race was VERY close and Bennett only narrowly defeated him.

Colorado has also two "personhood" and is poising itself for another stab in 2012.

About pregnancies and abortions. In this country we're one step away from women being accused of being witches again. Even by some who claim to be on our side.

I hope you put this in your journal so you can re-post it when needed.

Thank you.

Thanks. It's in my journal and I would happily trot it out again if the situation arises.

I don't know how anyone with any feelings could read this and not be totally opposed to these "personhood" bills.

It pisses me off also that people would want to subject your daughter or any other woman to that kind of pain.

Let's all do what we can to defeat all "personhood" bills.

Yes. It is IMPERATIVE that the right wing not take control again. It could mean my daughter's life.

However disappointed you are in Obama, PLEASE, PLEASE vote for him again. You can hold your nose and not donate, but PLEASE don't stay home.

I supported Hillary during the primaries but joined her in supporting Obama after he got the nomination. Obama does support women's rights while whatever Republican nominee will be against contraceptive access and reproductive rights and will certainly not appoint Supreme Court judges who will uphold women's rights. I'll be voting for Obama again in 2012 and will encourage others to do the same.

i've never understood why the forced birthers think women would make such decisions so lightly.

unfortunately, they're coming back here to co for a third try on the 2012 ballot. i voted down the first two, i will actively work against the third one. i am getting sick of it.

what makes these bills so frightening, at least to me, is the overarching affect it will have on women's reproductive health/choice and overall health beyond abortion. if those assholes want my iud, they are going to have to pry it from my cold, dead uterus.

"if those assholes want my iud, they are going to have to pry it from my cold, dead uterus."

Love it!

:toast:

Right On!

I'm an only child because abortion was illegal. My mother, separated from my father and trying to support us on her own, had an illegal abortion. She almost died when I was two. She was never able to conceive again.

I'm grateful that she survived. Not all women then did.

If I've learned anything in my time on this planet, it is that people are individuals, and have individual stories. I despise the fundies attempts to lop all women who have had "abortions" together and insist we all just wanted to fit into our prom dresses.

We are so lucky to live in a time when women are not subjugated as they used to be. I just find it astonishing that many (including many women!) want to send us back to subjugation.

:hug: