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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-11 08:03 AM
Original message
Is the nationwide crackdown on OWS merely a coincidence?
Edited on Tue Nov-15-11 08:04 AM by Atman
Personally, I find it hard to believe. Someone, somewhere, probably at Homeland Security, decided it was time to end this. Business leaders are getting upset and the media is actually paying attention to the protests. The dirty hippies aren't wussing out as they were expected to do when the cold weather arrived. Gotta move in!

Or, are the crackdowns as organic as the protests? As one city hears about another city breaking up an OWS camp, the mayor/police chief feel they have cover to do the same. Not sure. Just seems like the proverbial "they" have decided that it's time to crack some heads.

.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-11 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
1. No.
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ret5hd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-11 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yes. To believe otherwise is to believe in conspiracys.
And we know where that gets ya'.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-11 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
3. Deleted message
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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-11 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
4. It's mid November
Edited on Tue Nov-15-11 08:16 AM by FBaggins
The cold weather has hardly "arrived". They'll need the real spirit of the battle of Trenton before it's over.

Other than that, you're spot on.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-11 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
5. No. No more so than Operation Garden Plot or Rex 84 were. Only DHS knows what they call it now.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-11 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. Yes....

And who does DHS ultimately answer to?
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-11 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. POTUS, contractors, Wall Street, but not 99% of the American people.
Edited on Tue Nov-15-11 10:45 AM by leveymg
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-11 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. By the chain of command, POTUS. n/t
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-11 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Who's that? I thought he was a "constitutional lawyer."
They just didn't say whether he was for or against. Many of us just assumed the best and projected onto him what we wanted to see, didn't we?

Joke's on us.

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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-11 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. Fool me one, shame on you. Fool me twice.......n/t
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-11 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. Constitutional lawyers read the case law, and the case law says
that time, place and manner regulations apply to the exercise of speech and right of assembly of the "little people."

When rich people exercise their right of free speech and assembly, they pay lots of money and go to Aspen or the Bohemian Grove or other such places where the meet with the powerful and other rich people.

They do not have to camp out in front of city hall or in a park.

Therefore they argue that the rest of us should have to obey their rules in order to enjoy the same rights that they can enjoy at Aspen, Bohemian Grove, etc.

So, Obama believes in his heart that the right of speech that is subject to local regulations about time, place and manner is plenty good enough for the rabble in America.

And virtually every lawyer who spends his days reading the case law without carefully examining and considering the words of the First Amendment itself and the historical context in which it will listen will agree.

But, essentially, the time, place and manner restrictions deprive ordinary people of their First Amendment rights.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-11 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Reminds me of the famous quote about "the majestic equality" of French law
Edited on Tue Nov-15-11 01:34 PM by leveymg
Anatole France wrote in a time much like our own:

*
o The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.
+ Le Lys Rouge (1894), ch. 7
o Variant: How noble the law, in its majestic equality, that both the rich and poor are equally prohibited from peeing in the streets, sleeping under bridges, and stealing bread!

* Pour accomplir de grandes choses il ne suffit pas d'agir il faut rêver; il ne suffit pas de calculer, il faut croire.
o To accomplish great things we must not only act, but also dream; not only plan, but also believe.
o Variant: To accomplish great things, we must dream as well as act.
o Discours de réception, Séance De L'académie Française (introductory speech at a session of the French Academy), 24th December 1896, on Ferdinand de Lesseps' work on the Suez Canal.

* II n'ya que les pauvres gens qui payent comptant. Ce n'est pas par vertu; c'est parce qu'on ne leur fait pas crédit.
o It is only the poor who pay cash, and that not from virtue, but because they are refused credit.
+ Pierre Nozière (1899), book I, ch. VI: Les deux tailleurs

Anatole France:


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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-11 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Beautiful quotes. Thanks.
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-11 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
6. The fact that this crackdown is happening
EVERYWHERE, simultaneously, attests that it's almost certainly NOT random.
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Stuart G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-11 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. I also think that it is not random.
I don't know who is behind it. Maybe a coincience. ??
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-11 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Does the right wing do anything at random?
From their daily "talking points" to their slogans to their Tea Party protests, everything they do is orchestrated for effect. You can do that when your followers display blind obedience to authority.
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Bryan Buchan Donating Member (253 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-11 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
8. Just because its happening nationwide does not mean
one needs to be a conspiracy theorist, or believe in tin foil hat myths.

Obviously this is a coordinated effort and police are sharing information, tactics, and legalese to determine how best to dismantle the 99%/OWS movement.

Its been reported as such in the MSM too.





Your crest is comin' upon ya, surf my man.
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ProfessionalLeftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-11 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
10. I don't believe in coincidences. So, no.
This was planned from 'the top', IMO.
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-11 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
11. Well it's not like the police dress up in riot gear every day accidentally
Oops! Now why did I dress in riot hear? And what am I doing with this gas canister and this night stick?
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-11 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
13. I've been thinking this for days now... Coordinated & orchestrated.
And, yes, I don't doubt that Homeland Security is very likely in the mix. It leaves me beyond disgusted. What can we, the people, do about it?
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-11 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
17. The austerity measures will be announced this week or at Thanksgiving.
The authorities know very well that when those measures are announced, large crowds will converge to support OWS everywhere.

The authorities still think in pre-computer-age terms. They think that by bringing in burly police officers with Star Wars outfits and shields, they will intimidate the American people. Think again.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-11 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
18. Nope
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SoapBox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-11 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
22. Now we know...it was NOT.
Time to take back America from the 1%...AND, I want my tax dollars back
from the Police Militia Departments that have attacked the American 99%.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-11 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Indeed we do
It appears to have been coordinated on a conference call.
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Mr.Liberty Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-11 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
25. No I don't think it's random at all
Even though the districts are different...the intention is the same all over the U.S.
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-11 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
26. Super Committee has about a week now....
If triggers occur (which it's beginning to look like) more people will be in the streets and they do NOT want that.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-15-11 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
27. You are forgetting about "Group think" when people just think alike based on their histories
"Group Think" is when a group of people act as one, even if no one is leading them. Mostly this is brought on by a common background, for example a group of people who think alike for they all went to the same schools, attended the same classes and thus taught the same ideas.

The army even knows this, it trains its personal to do things, and the Army knows it take over 1000 repetition to do it automatically. Thus people exposed to the same ideas, over and over again, year after year, will act on those repeated actions. In the case of most politician it is the Christmas Shopping period. Such politician do NOT want anything interfere with the Christmas shopping season for that is what they have been told all of their lives, from the day their were born till now.

In the case of the Wall Street and most cities is we have just celebrated Veterans Day, which means Thanksgiving is less then two weeks away and with it the Christmas buying season. Most store make most of their profit for the year between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Such stores do NOT want anything to interfere with that rush to buy. Politicians and other all know this and want to appear to help such stores, and the biggest thing in the way of these stores is Occupy Wall Street and the other Occupy movements.

Thus the movement to suppress Occupation Wall Street may NOT be coordinated by anyone, just that people are acting as they have been told to act since birth, protect the Christmas Shopping Season from ANY DISTURBANCE, good or bad. Thus everyone wants occupy Wall Street and the other occupy movements over and done with by Thanksgiving and are increasing pressure on the occupiers to end their occupation before Thanksgiving.

Just a comment, that this nationwide movement to suppress the Occupy movements may be more the product of Group Think based on what people have done all their lives then any real plan to do this suppression at the same time. The Politicians want it over by Thanksgiving so the store owners will NOT be on their backs for the movement continuing (And taking away from people buying) OR even people staying home to watch the movements being suppressed during the Christmas shopping season.

Side note, the following MAY be an Additional factor in any suppression of the Occpay Wall Street Movement within the next week:

I do NOT know how many New York City Police Officers go hunting, but I grew up in the City of Pittsburgh and we had enough people (Teachers and Students) missing on the first day of Deer Season that we ended up closing the Schools on that date (if you lose 10% or more of your students you basically have to re-do that day, and even in the City of Pittsburgh you had more then enough teachers and students who took the first day of Deer Season off, that anything done on that date had to be made up, so the City finally gave up and declared no school on that date).

Now York States Deer Season in the Mohawk Valley starts November 19. It started in at the Adirondack Mountains on October 22 (Long Island and Westchester County have special rules see the site below for details). Pennsylvania Deer Season starts on the Monday after Thanksgiving, so if any New York Police Officers want to hunt in the mountains of Pennsylvania he has to take off November 28, 2011.

New York State Deer Seasons:
http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/28605.html

My point is if a sizable number of New York Police officers want to hunt in Pennsylvania on November 28, 2011, any suppression has to be done within the next week. November 19, 2011 is this Saturday, so if they want to hunt in Upstate New York, this had be over by Friday (in my opinion all ready to late to meet such a date, I suspect Pennsylvania Hunting may appear to New York Police officers who hunt more then Upstate New York does, thus the concern for this to be over by Thanksgiving. The Police can then have thanksgiving diner with their families, shop on Black Friday and Saturday, Travel to their Hunting Cabin in Pennsylvania on Sunday so to be ready to go deer hunting sunrise Monday November 28. Many Pennsylvania fathers do this, and I suspect those New York Police Officers who hunt in Pennsylvania also do it.
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