Inspired by CreekDog's thread, how many of you have now reached the point at which you will now

go out of your way to avoid interacting with or even being in close proximity to a police officer?

I have, since approximately the year 2002, gone out of my way, sometimes literally, to avoid even being on the same city block as a cop. If a police officer's car gets anywhere near mine, I will actually switch lanes, and sometimes take an entirely different route to my destination. This has become habitual for me. Same if I see them on the street--I do what I can to move away, including going into stores I wasn't planning on going into, just to be as far away from them as possible.

For the record, I am a good law abiding citizen who has never been arrested. But I can now see most police officers to be not just unstable, but dangerous people who have near absolute authority to do what they please without consequences. Not only do I no longer rely on them to be able to protect us from crimes, I think they are little better than government sponsored enforcers. And it frightens me that our society has devolved to the point where the current standards for police conduct are considered acceptable.

No.

or situations where the person they are dealing with is disabled.

whether it's the professor in Massachusettes with one leg and the field sobriety test (really happened).

the San Mateo man tased while going through a diabetic reaction.

the apparently hearing impaired man in North Carolina who didn't obey a shouted command and was tased while riding a bike which caused him to crash and die.

asthmatics they spray point blank in the face with pepper spray.

The man in Washington who was disabled and homeless who a friend called a welfare check on and the police came and ended up shooting him.

folks they rough up because they can't run or don't know how to follow a command.

I mean, if someone is having a medical difficulty or has an impairment, the police aren't just arresting them, a lot of times we're hearing they're using deadly force on these people or sometimes just violent force when it's not necessary.

And when you consider that if you see someone staggering with a medical problem and your intent is to *help* that person, if you think the police are going to come and tase them and throw them to the ground and cuff them --why would you call the police in that case?

It's got to cross one's mind when they read these stories.

heh, no seriously, I am not anywhere close to the point you are, it seems a bit paranoid to me what you do. Unless you were a wanted criminal or something, I don't avoid the police.

You seem a bit paranoid. :tinfoilhat:

I have never had any personal interaction with cops that has been anything but pleasant, even when getting pulled over.

If you don't like who they are going after, go after their boss not them. They're just following orders. (Granted I have not been following the Occupy movement like I should).

an iconic representation of what has been happening all across the length and breadth of America, from Tulsa to Oakland, from New York City to Seattle.

In short, the cops all across tbe land have been using excessive force and brutalizing Americans who are exercising their first amendment rights.

And Obama and the leadership of the Democratic Party has remained entirely silent.

hmmm..rings a bell...where have I heard that before?????

And I had a couple of unpleasant interactions with cops - a couple of times when I did not notice something and the cop assumed I did it deliberately. But I'm not going to say that assholery is inherent in being cops - I've dealt with unpleasant people of many professions.

And like you have also been treated politely by them when pulled over.

Not one time in my entire life has a cop done anything good for me, quite the opposite actually. In the very few times I've tried to make use of their services they have failed me, in fact they continue to fail me annually in one case. On a personal level every one I've ever met was an asshole with some sort of a John Wayne/Clint Eastwood mentality (minus 20 or so IQ points). As far as I'm concerned they are just garbage-men with badges, I wouldn't piss on one if he was on fire.

If you are upper class and Caucasian then you have little to fear from most interactions with police, the further you get from that status the more careful you should be.

I'm a white guy, but very far from the upper class! You are broad brushing and mistaken.

That ten year old Caddy is going to get stopped a lot more than a new SUV will. Especially if the driver has too much a of a tan or too much head foliage. It depends on the neighborhood too.

Nor have I ever been hassled by the police for any reason, and often I am walking around late at night to go to a store. So make of that what you will.

I didn't join them in the tent city or mingle but I support them 100%. What's your point?

your lack of fear or whether they, like many Occupiers across the U.S., have grown suspicious and fearful of the cops.

I know I am far more skeptical about the cops in the wake of Oakland, NY City, UC-Davis.

I'm in Los Angeles. We had three of the LAPD swagger through the camp after last night's General Assembly. The arrogance and contempt rolled off them palpably. (See Fire Walk with Me's account.)

up together. Just because I respect police officers doesn't mean I think its ok for them to beat up protestors!

Two different subjects, and I am not connecting them in any way in my post responses so I'm glad to make this clear.

offend, as that wasn't my intention. It was more to respond to what I thought was the OP's intent, i.e., in light of Creek Dog's thread (which itself asked whether people were more or less likely now to call police), how many will now go out of the way to avoid the police? IOW, I thought the actual question was this: have the various police crackdowns on Occupy encampments ('recent events') changed your attitude towards the police?

Like I say, still working on my first cup of joe. Hope brain cells are fully engaged in next 30 mins. :)

I understand why people might make the connection of police and the OWS in light of recent events, and should have made it more clear my responses were made not in this context in any way. Sometimes I may come across too aggressive in the way I respond and its not the correct impression I mean to convey.

And yet blacks are vastly overrepresented in the "drug crimes" conviction rate..

Indeed, nearly one in three black males will be incarcerated at some point in their life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics_of_incarcerated_African-American_males

A black male born in 1991 has a 29% chance of spending time in prison at some point in his life.
Nearly one in three African American males aged 20–29 are under some form of criminal justice supervision whether imprisoned, jailed, on parole or probation.

or parole than are enrolled in institutions of higher education (colleges and universities). That says it all, imo.

The charge ended up being dropped.

I let him know that he was very lucky he was white.

And also that someone was able to drive 30 miles out in the boonies at 2 AM and had the coin on hand to bail his pale tail out of jail.

I guess you run vapors rather than laugh then,,,

"bail his pale tail out of jail"

good for a smile.

system too. So how would the cops come in for blame over it? And they arrested him even though he was white.

I agree cops will arrest blacks more easily (by watching them more closely based on racial profiling) but I wouldn't see the case you cite as affected by that.

Rather than street cops.

In the first place what difference does it make if they're beat cops or detectives, they are armed enforcement agents of the state, aka police officers.

In the second place if you think cops, both beat and detective, don't profile according to race, age and class you are sadly mistaken.

And now you're throwing detectives and the court system in and accusing them of being all bad.

Do you believe there should be a rule of law at all?

Of course profiling is wrong, but the person did the crime if there is evidence. The problem is the white men who didn't get arrested but did the crime, not that anyone is ever arrested for a crime.

The OP is acting like cops, as agents of enforcement are inherently bad and should be shunned. That's in essence opposing law enforcement. If laws are not to be enforced, then they may as well not exist.

An arbitrary system of law is not justice and at the moment our system of law is remarkably arbitrary.

Plenty of drug busts happen during routine traffic stops, stop and frisks and other beat cop type activities.

I made some good points. If you have a real response, then make it.

I live in a town that could be called the UN. I have never noticed anybody dodging cops, or acting nervous.

My post was just about my personal observations in my travels around town.

they give me the creeps but i can handle that. Our chief of police here is a person I've known all his life so he isn't a threat to me, in fact I feel I can go to him if need be. Not all cops are bad, many are but not all.

If he were a thug the police actions would reflect that. It's not that hard to understand in systems that are strictly hierarchical. It's always a reflection on the leadership.

We all told him sorry, but dont tell.

But, I'll be damned if I'll let any bully run me off the sidewalk.

:rofl:

mushrooms now. no way they could hide anyone. The terrorists I look for wear uniforms and walk in any door they find unlocked. I was told by an officer that any pedestrian on the sidewalk after dark should EXPECT to be ID'd and that they had a file on everybody in town.

I watch my mirrors like a hawk and one night on 680 near Fremont California where there had to be 4 lanes in each direction, I see a CHP coming up on me, so I do the right thing and signal then pull one lane to the right.

The CHP follows suit, so I do the same, then again into the furthest right lane.

Then on go the lights.

He explained that I was pulled over because I couldn't seem to stay in one lane.

Fuck that shit.

Fucker.

I don't even drive and that's bullshit.

PB

could be that you get pulled over/aside anyway for acting in a suspicious manner.

:shrug:

Lane changing really? We have to realize that they can stop us for nothing at all and with that realization comes the knowing that our rights have gone with the wind! I can remember when you didn't have to have an ID to ride in a car. Two middle class 50 somethings hit a deer on a country road. Highway patrol takes the drivers info and then asks me, the passenger, for my drivers license. My response...'I don't mean to be rude but I didn't realize a passenger needed a drivers license.' It didn't make me feel comfortable to say that to him but someone has to stand up for those who can't. I guess if you hit a deer it's time to shake down the entire list of passengers for illegals and terrorist. That is not my America.

That, in itself, should not get you pulled over.

What might get you pulled over would be if you very suddenly slowed down and switched lanes. Or looked overly nervous as the cop went by.

It's not just the act itself, but the demeanor/appearance of the person, and if you project any kind of negative/suspicious vibes that the cop picks up on while you actively avoid them, you may be toast.


PS...when asked to provide a license after being a passenger in a car that hit a deer, what else did you say? In addition to that you weren't aware that a passenger had to show a license, I mean...did you ask WHY he was requesting a license from you?

so basically he was either working for an agent of the insurance company or it was a way to check every passenger into the system. This was a deer hit in Ohio which happens very often. He took my license back to his car and ran it as well.

serves as proof that you were there? If the driver/owner's insurance company were to try weaseling out of payment--not that insurance companies are known for doing that--the police report is your best friend.

Relax.

Never thought of it that way before, but it does make sense.

that is the point. I know someone who had her car impounded for a DUI that she never had. They stopped her for a taillight and boom she had a legal problem. Had to go to court to prove that she in fact had not DUI. So feel free to hug up on your police report. I prefer to keep my ID in my pocket. I doubt my friend and business partner, the driver of the car, was going to dick me on the insurance claim. Long story short there was no personal injury at all.

And so they give out BS tickets in order to make the quota.

anyone would bother to review the police harassment etc. during the Rupublican Convention here in the Cities (ask Amy Goodman) then they'd know what we're up against. If it is the actions of only a few cops then it's time to weed them out but I doubt that is the case. I, too, am law abiding and never even had a ticket (40+ years of driving) however.....

no seriously..

And most cops are not what you think they are

That's why those one or two should be kicked off the force very quickly by their own Chiefs of Police. Because if citizens can't trust cops they don't know because of one or two experiences with bad cops, then how is that serving either the police or the community?

It's like soldiers who commit atrocities (not that war in and of itself is anything else). The military very swiftly deals with these cases just for that reason.

So far in all the OWS incidents the worst that's happened to any of the abusive cops has been suspension with pay. What is that? It sure doesn't assuage any fear or give much confidence as far as I'm concerned. If anything it makes tensions much worse.

For example, I now expect the police to overreact whereas before I expected them to conduct themselves with restraint in the face of a peaceful civil disobedience.

not the officers. AKA I blame a system.

But changing lanes to avoid a squad car will get those plates run THIS FAST. and she will NEVER know it. And if she has a missing tail light... that is enough cause to stop her.

A friend's daughter got a speeding ticket. A cop followed her because she turned up a street to avoid a sobriety checkpoint. She wasn't drinking, she just wanted to avoid the hassle. She was speeding, but not by more than 5 mph, and yes, she's white.

in your sentence.

The 'limit' in 'speed limit' means that which one should not exceed.

I've had some really good encounters with officers and I've had some that were really bad and my daughter had an encounter that was downright awful, Kafkaesque.

We were having a conversation on how there is NO corruption in the US, and a cop would never ask me for a bribe, with people from Mexico City.

Guess what happened after I got stopped for making a legal turn? You guessed it. He asked for a bribe. In front of the station no less. I asked to see his Lt. since he was the sergeant... he let me go with a warning.

The people I was driving around had their jaws on the floorboard

medical professional.

That said, the younger ones I have encountered seem to be far less authoritarian and more like normal, civilized human beings. The older ones are typically ASSES.

This is LAPD. YMMV.

And I'm a young punk.

The younger ones are complete pricks with little weenies. The older ones (generally) seem to be more calm and disinterested.

Edit: Got busted for trespassing one time, and the older cop was willing to let me go, but the younger one wrote me a ticket anyway. I started calling him "rookie." I'm pretty sure he didn't like that.

Bringing bunnies to the orphanage, fine.
On the street, a good time to consider what you could be doing somewhere else, or at least farther away.

seen much of you on DU.

Which is kind of strange. I don't think I will ever post here as much as I did in '05/'06, but I still have things to contribute.

to our occupiers. I can't really complain.

I do know what you're talking about, though. The behavior of some in other cities has been abominable.

Sorry. Proud inner city youth with no fear of the po po

Mr. Missy Vixen has been volunteering at a local police department for years. Do I trust 99% of them? No.

There's one guy I am happy to visit with when I see him. The rest? Absolutely not.

>And it frightens me that our society has devolved to the point where the current standards for police conduct are considered acceptable.<

Despite the fact Mr. MV works in downtown Seattle, we actively avoid events in and around the city because of the continuing issues with SPD.

I think you are right to avoid police officers as well, especially when we've all been shown they don't hesitate to shoot/pepper spray first, and ask questions later.

When you get questioned without a parent present for a crime that never actually happened, it makes a lasting impression.

Kids from the trailer park, like me, learn early that cops aren't really Officer Friendly.

All these people who just kind of fell out of the middle class in this mess that we're in? They don't know basic survival stuff we figured out while we were still in short pants.

Or at least your favorites.

cop was friendly, I spent the night in their care, and we parted company in the morning - all still friendly.

In the mid 90s I went with my daughter to pick up her kids who had been snatched up by her soon-to-be ex husband. We had a court order giving her the kids. We showed it to the LEO who responded to our call. (This was not in my small town, but a much larger one, where I did not know anyone on the police force.)

The responding LEO escorted us to three different places where the ex might be, had the ex's sister call him to inform him of the impending arrest, stayed with us until the kids were delivered, stayed until daughter had packed up everything she wanted.

He and three other LEOs were friendly toward us, and extremely helpful.

Recently I was stopped for speeding, had no seat belt on. I was wrong. I was friendly, the LEO was friendly. The clerk was friendly the next day when I paid the fine.

I go to the gym frequented by several city and county LEOs. They are friendly. They offer advice on exercising to me, a senior citizen.

The local police chief used to come to my house when he was a teenager and my daughters lived at home. I've known the county sheriff for about 20 years. They are friendly.

I have coffee with the police chief of a neighboring town from time to time at my favorite convenience store. He is friendly. His MIL was my MIL's roommate in the nursing home. The whole family is friendly.

I do not have issues with the police.

...and there is some tendency to abuse it to at least some degree. There is also the fact that certain personality types are attracted to law enforcement precisely because they want power over others. And for those that want that power, there are some that intend to wield it to their benefit or to the detriment of others.

In general I have no problem with the police. Most seem decent enough, and I think after awhile the excitement of having that badge and gun ebbs and they treat it as just a job they have to do.

Unfortunately, this is not a problem that can fully fixed. Some with authority will always abuse it and many seek authority for this reason alone.

If your post is a response to the occupy evictions, I think you are badly over reacting. The elected mayors in these cities are making these decisions to give the protesters the boot, not the police. The cops are given an order and go in force to carry it out. Put a bunch of cops together in a tense situation, and a few will act badly - this will never change.

Sort of like how I treat dogs I don't know until I see if they are people friendly or people aggressive.

I've known police officers personally. Most of the law enforcement individuals I have known have had some sort of psychological defect:
The public affairs officer that had an addiction to plastic surgery and made his wife come into the operating or treatment room and video every procedure was a very strange man.
The sheriff deputy that was seriously into martial arts, involved with a lawsuit about the church made of mostly of his family members (and had been like that for a hundred years) and who cautioned me that the new digital TVs would have cameras that could spy on everything I did.
The Warrant Officer for the Sheriff's Department who may have embezzled money from the horse club - and who did leave twenty pre-signed checks for the checking account that required two signatures for security - :wtf:

I never met the sheriff's deputy from my home town that was found to have raped a number of women he pulled over for minor traffic infractions. That's when I learned that if a cop riding single pulled me over in an isolated area, to lock my doors and pass him the paperwork through a very small crack in the window.

But then I am part of an entitled class, especially in the South - white and female gets you a long way, even if you're old and unattractive. I once talked a cop out of giving me a ticket for going 85 in a 35 MPH zone because I convinced him I was worried he (in an unmarked care) was some wanna be attacker trying to follow a single woman home to her isolated home in the woods.

- so I know quite a few of them. Most are great people. Some are jerks. They're no different than the rest of the population.

We always see and hear about the bad apples which are in the minority. I sure don't trust the media to give us the full side of any story and being knuckled under by broad brushing and fear mongering isn't something I prone to accept. I prefer to judge others based on my personal experiences.

that produces that hyper-out-of-control kind of effect. On the other hand, I've been casually observing police behavior since the 60's, and I'm convinced that they all share some weird kind of dna, come by sociopathic behavior naturally.

To respond to your post, I don't go out of my way. and I have on occasion over the years met a few (rare) decent human beings. Some have even helped me on occasion. Imagine that! But as a group, they act like fascists jackboots. And that's how they're trained apparently.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

going to all family functions. My uncle, cousin, and brother-in-law are all cops. I find their jobs distasteful the older I get, but as human beings, they are wonderful. My uncle can quote Gandhi and the Buddha, and is one of the gentler people I know.

The police were exposed for having a ticket quota here many years ago. Long-haul truckers have known about Boise for decades, it's not just a speed trap, they'll nail you for anything, even if they have to make it up. So, if a police officer pulls up behind me on the street, I usually drive into the next parking lot to get off of the street and then re-enter the street after he has passed.

Whenever there is a recession, the fastest, easiest way for the city to raise revenue is through stopping drivers and giving them a ticket. Court costs are almost $100 now. So, a "10 mph over the speed limit infraction" is not just a $30 fine anymore, it's $130 because the repressive city council passed the costs of running the traffic court on to the people charged with those misdemeanors.

The number of tickets handed out during any given year is directly proportional with the economic trends. In other words, in a recession, the number of citations handed out increases dramatically as the police become the revenue makers. This has happened for the last 3 recessions here without any doubt.

I've talked to at least 3 former police officers after they retired or quit the department, and they all admitted that there was a lot of pressure on them to give out more tickets when the economy soured. This isn't a new revelation of any kind, it happens all over the United States. But, even though the police union denied it repeatedly, we've had 4 new Police Chiefs over the last 12 years. That's not a coincidence. It will get worse before it gets better because many of the older, more experienced police officers are retiring. And they are retiring earlier than they used to do.

when I was being shouted down right here on DU 5 years ago saying similar stuff. I have believed for several years that the biggest mistake made in law enforcement is/was the militarization of the forces. Extreme "high reg" military haircuts, parachute utility pants tucked into high top military boots, all black uniforms with few insignias, low slung thigh holsters, all terrain vehicles equipped with military assault rifles are all things which effect the psyche of street cops. They feel empowered and above the populace. They view themselves as something other than what they really are/supposed to be....civilians. Why should traffic cops be allowed to act and dress like paramilitary assassins?

Of course, I am a white male, even if I do look a bit like a hippie with my long hair. Your mileage may vary.

on September 12th.

Lets just say I avoid the police when ever I can.

I've read that the crime problems in the inner city comes from an an inability to trust the police, for obvious reasons any inner city minority would tell you. The result is that these folks are forced to take the law into their own hands.

Small town living, and all that.