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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 11:37 PM
Original message
National Defense Authorization Act
Have people here been talking about this, or have I just missed it? This is some scary shit...

http://destructionist.wordpress.com/tag/national-defense-authorization-act/



The Senate is set to vote on a bill next week that would define the whole of the United States as a “battlefield” and allow the U.S. Military to arrest American citizens in their own back yard without charge or trial.

“The Senate is going to vote on whether Congress will give this president—and every future president — the power to order the military to pick up and imprison without charge or trial civilians anywhere in the world. The power is so broad that even U.S. citizens could be swept up by the military and the military could be used far from any battlefield, even within the United States itself,” writes Chris Anders of the ACLU Washington Legislative Office.

Under the ‘worldwide indefinite detention without charge or trial’ provision of S.1867, the National Defense Authorization Act bill, which is set to be up for a vote on the Senate floor Monday, the legislation will “basically say in law for the first time that the homeland is part of the battlefield,” said Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), who supports the bill.

The bill was drafted in secret by Senators Carl Levin (D-Mich.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.), before being passed in a closed-door committee meeting without any kind of hearing. The language appears in sections 1031 and 1032 of the NDAA bill.

<snip>





A great big WTF
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markpkessinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. This demands a MASSIVE call/letter/email flood of Senate offices n/t
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Was this kind of under the radar.
or have I just been oblivious with the holidays and all? Sneaky bastards.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. I think it demands that people read up on the bill
Which, as noted downthread, exempts US citizens, among other things.

You can follow the bill's progress, and even read the full text of it, here: http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-h1540/show
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markpkessinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. The only exemption is from the requirement of military custody...
... It does not prevent the military from arresting U.S. citizens on U.S. soil and then transferring custody to civilian authorities. I think YOU need to re-read it.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. It doesn't authorize that
nor does any other law. So it doesn't need to prevent that. Read the bill.
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Tx4obama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. Here's the text of Section 1031 and 1032 (referred to by the ACLU)

See comment #61 here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2378124&mesg_id=2381909

The text of Section 1031 and 1032 is on the link above.

An important excerpt:

SNIP

(b) Applicability to United States Citizens and Lawful Resident Aliens-

(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.

(2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States.

SNIP

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markpkessinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. So the only thing different with respect to U.S. citizens...
... is that they can be detained in civilian, as opposed to military, custody. Am I reading that correctly?
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #6
28. Not even that much. Nowhere does the act PROHIBIT military detention of Americans.
It merely states that doing so is not a REQUIREMENT.
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Tx4obama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yes, folks on DU have been talking about it - see links below
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2banon Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
5. Jesus H. Christ. Carl Levin and John McCain. Everytime I think it can't get worse, it gets worse.
. wow
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MindMover Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
8. BIG BROTHER is definitely watching and waiting....
I read somewhere that there is a prison in Alaska that can hold a lot of people, in the millions....and that train cars have been built to carry people that have been arrested....
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Yeah, that's nutty bullshit.
First, the premise of a prison that can hold millions of people is kind of absurd on the face of it. Even more, the idea that supposedly this massive project would get built without anyone knowing hard facts, Google Earth photos, cell phone video, testimony by the workers...
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Response Donating Member (213 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Alaska is a big place.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia

In the times of the Soviet Union, the earlier katorga system of penal labor camps was replaced by the new one, administered by the GULAG state agency.<18> According to official Soviet estimates, more than 14 million people passed through the Gulag from 1929 to 1953, with a further 7 to 8 million being deported and exiled to remote areas of the Soviet Union (including entire nationalities in several cases).[
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:56 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Alaska is not a gulag,
and we would know if something like that was going on. There aren't many of us up here, but we're spread throughout the state. The people out in the villages surely would notice such a thing and they wouldn't stand for it.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Not to mention, a big rail line running through Canada would be kind of noticeable. nt
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MindMover Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. the camp is located near Fairbanks.....
A Defense Department document, entitled the “Strategy for Homeland Defense and Civil Support,” has set out a military strategy against terrorism that envisions an “active, layered defense” both inside and outside U.S. territory. In the document, the Pentagon pledges to “transform U.S. military forces to execute homeland defense missions in the . . . U.S. homeland.” The strategy calls for increased military reconnaissance and surveillance.

The Washington Post reported on February 15, 2006 that the National Counterterrorism Center’s (NCTC) central repository holds the names of 325,000 terrorist suspects, a fourfold increase since fall of 2003. A Pentagon official said the Counterintelligence Field Activity’s TALON program has amassed files on antiwar protesters.

Shortly after 9/11, Bush issued "Military Order Number One", which empowered him to detain any noncitizen as an international terrorist or enemy combatant. Today that order extends to U.S. citizens as well.

And if Congress gets its way with this latest bill authorizing further militarization of our country, then concentration camps in Alaska and other places around the world is not nutty bullshit....it is more fact than fiction...
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Interesting the parts of that little screed you DIDN'T cut and paste.
You almost directly cut and pasted that from stuff reposted on various lunatic conspiracy theorist websites, where it appears thusly (emphasis mine):

Shortly after Bush orchestrated 9/11, he issued "Military Order Number One", which empowered him to detain any non-citizen as an international terrorist or enemy combatant. Today that order extends to U.S. citizens as well.


Are you going to tell us next about duplicate planes and controlled demolition?
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MindMover Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. the part I cut was subjective....or opinion
the parts I left in are fact.....

and you can try to dispute them all you want....
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MindMover Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. What I have seen happening to our citizens....
is some nutty bullshit.....

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SomethingFishy Donating Member (552 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. It's nutty bullshit to a point... Halliburton.. or K&R just got a
385 million dollar contract to build "detention centers" for "Illegal Immigrants" "if they become necessary". There is also mention of detention centers for "other purposes".

It's not like they haven't started cracking down on dissent already, why is it so crazy to think they might want to start rounding up people when they are attempting to pass a law like this? I can't see anyone, even in their worst moments of American zeal, standing up for this fascist law.



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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. No. That's an urban legend, one that's been going around since 2001.
There is exactly zero evidence of it ever happening.
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MindMover Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. you might want to reference zero happening with
something that might be happening in your neck of the woods....

and the spending is in the neighborhood of 60 big ones, that refers to billions.....

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/41483660@N04/6415696465/" title="web-image-bf13ae29f3edda66c0e0e1429246518b by pbmus, on Flickr"><img src="" width="300" height="186" alt="web-image-bf13ae29f3edda66c0e0e1429246518b"></a>
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. I can assure you that that is not going on here.
No prison, and no train that comes up here for the Lower 48.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
9. As Zappa said, they are removing the props and are showing the brick wall...
...at the back of the theater.
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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
11. it is flying silent. If we had real news broadcasts rather
than political pundits preening themselves over the repuke primary debates, we might be informed enough to mount some opposition.....but when it is one of those bipartisan stealth bombers, we all get royally screwed.
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sunwyn Donating Member (268 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:49 AM
Response to Original message
17. Techinically can't they already did this. Bush suspended Posse Comitatus and it hasn't been restored
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
25. OccupyDetentionCenter will be an All-Expenses-Paid gathering for the 99%-on the Federal dime
Edited on Sun Nov-27-11 07:57 PM by kenny blankenship
The Homeland Security Abteilung will take care of organizing all the details concerning facilities (secret), paperwork (secret), and will be fully stocked way ahead of time on all the usual party favors (pepper spray, ceiling harnesses, batons, electric cattle prods, pain rays, etc.). For once at an Occupy* campsite you won't be left wondering who's in charge. The uniformed ape holding the taser baton and with the glock in his hip holster will be who's in charge.

Our wise leaders are just looking out for and anticipating the future needs of the 99%.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
26. K&R Support OWS. nt
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
29. Kick. We, the people are not under any illusions anymore. This is fascism.
RECALL WALKER/KLEEFISCH!!!
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