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Can Congress Force Us to Buy Broccoli?

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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 12:30 PM
Original message
Can Congress Force Us to Buy Broccoli?
http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2011/feb/04/can-congress-force-us-buy-broccoli/

The January 31 ruling by US District Judge Roger Vinson of Florida that the new health reform law is unconstitutional in its entirety was immediately hailed by Republicans and Tea Party activists, who have made overturning the law their chief goal. The second federal district court judge to invalidate President Obama’s health care law, Judge Vinson reasoned that if the Commerce Clause empowers Congress to require citizens to buy health care insurance as a means of regulating “interstate commerce,” there would be no limit to Congressional power. It could require us to buy cars, bread, or even broccoli, as all could equally be said to be economic actions that would promote commerce. Surely, Vinson maintained, there must be some limit on Congress’s power. Thus, he concluded that neither the Commerce Clause, which gives Congress the authority to regulate “interstate commerce,” nor the Necessary and Proper Clause, which authorizes any appropriate means that might further that goal, affords Congress authority to regulate “inactivity,” by requiring those who can afford it to purchase health insurance.

Yet just two days later, on February 2, Charles Fried, Harvard law professor, Solicitor General under Ronald Reagan, and one of the country’s leading conservative lawyers, told the Senate Judiciary Committee that Judge Vinson’s rationale was clearly wrong, and that the health care law is plainly constitutional.

Fried’s testimony carries particular weight, not only because of his conservative credentials, but also because he was counsel for the challengers in one of the only two cases in the last sixty years in which the Supreme Court has found a federal law beyond Congress’s authority under the Commerce Clause: United States v. Morrison. In that case, the Court ruled that Congress could not regulate violence against women because such violence was not a commercial or economic activity. Fried recognizes that the Commerce Clause has limits, but he testified that Congress was well within those limits when it enacted the health reform law, known as the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.

Fried began with the undisputed proposition that health insurance is interstate commerce, and therefore a proper subject of Congressional regulation. Requiring individuals to purchase health insurance, Fried argued, is in turn justified because it is an appropriate means to further the legitimate aim of reforming health insurance. Without such a mandate, the law’s most important and popular safeguard, which prohibits insurance companies from denying coverage to people with pre-existing medical conditions, would be unworkable, as people would have no incentive to purchase insurance until they are already sick. The Necessary and Proper Clause permits Congress to adopt any appropriate means to further Congress’s unquestionably legitimate end of regulating health insurance. Fried characterized the reasoning of opponents such as Judge Vinson, who maintain that the law impermissibly regulates “inactivity” rather than “activity,” as “entirely wrong and even worse quite confused.” In a rare show of bipartisanship on this most partisan of issues, Fried was joined in his defense of the law by Walter Dellinger, who was Acting Solicitor General under President Bill Clinton.

More at the link --
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Possumpoint Donating Member (937 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Not A Problem
I like broccoli raw, steamed, fried and boiled. It's especially good with cheese melted over it.
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. You had me until you mentioned cheese
:scared:


Broccoli deserves dignity.
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zorahopkins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. They Can't Make Me Eat Broccoli!
They may be able to make me buy broccoli, but they cannot make me eat it.

Broccoli is a vile, disgusting weed!
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david13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yes. And they can make you and I eat it, too. dc
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zorahopkins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I Refuse To Eat Broccoli!
I will NOT eat broccoli!

It is disgusting!

They will have to throw me in jail (or make me pay a very heavy fine), because I simply will not eat broccol1!

I will buy it, but I will NOT eat it.
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david13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Oh, oh. Don't say jail. Guess what they serve for dinner in jail??!!
You guessed 'er. Broccoli. Au gratin.
Reminds me of one friend of mine. He hated carrots. In jail all he ever got was one sandwich, and ... a carrot. For every meal.
dc
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
5. No. That is why they can't force us to purchase private insurance either.
Edited on Fri Feb-04-11 12:58 PM by Statistical
Hopefully the courts see reason because it is a dangerous precedent. If commerce clause allows govt to force purchases there is no limit to what you can be forced to buy.

Running an old version of windows. Microsoft lobbies that Windows 7 is more secure. Your use of XP affects interstate commerce. Your inactivity can be regulated. You are forced to purchase (for profit) latest version of Windows forever until end of time.

Not enough cars being sold. Under the guise of improving gase mileage the govt could force you to purchase a new vehicle is your current vehicle is more than 5 years old. Of course the resale vehicle of your now ex-mandated vehicle is esssentially nothing.

Cable company subscriptions too low. Under the claim that the electorate needs to be informed you are required to purchase news services from an authorized provider or face annnual tax penalty.

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renegade000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
7. lol, for some reason i'm thinking of SAT analogies
broccoli : peas :: private health insurance : __________
broccoli : cabbage :: private health insurance : ___________
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Gravel Democrat Donating Member (598 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
8. and the other half of that question is can the commerce clause require commerce
Edited on Fri Feb-04-11 12:58 PM by Gravel Democrat
and if that twisted precedent stands, Katy bar the Russell

Here is where they say the authority is given them to require purchases from a for profit company:
Article 1 Section 8 "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enumerated_powers

apparently Enumerated Powers means whatever the person asked thinks it means at any given time these days

Here's Pelosi's take: When Asked Where the Constitution Authorizes Congress to Order Americans To Buy Health Insurance, Pelosi Says: 'Are You Serious?'

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/55971



Obama was against it before he was for it (too bad no one asks what changed his mind)
Don't miss this clip!



http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/checker.aspx?v=hdqGnz6UqG

Candidate Obama speaking from Duncanville TX
...appeared on The Ellen DeGeneres Show. In the interview, Obama made the following distinction between his health care proposal and Hillary Clinton’s:

“Both of us want to provide health care to all Americans…. But, she mandates that everybody buy health care. She’d have the government force every individual to buy insurance and I don’t have such a mandate because I don’t think the problem is that people don’t want health insurance, it’s that they can’t afford it.

So, I focus more on lowering costs. This is a modest difference. But, it’s one that she’s tried to elevate, arguing that because I don’t force people to buy health care that I’m not insuring everybody. Well, if things were that easy, I could mandate everybody to buy a house, and that would solve the problem of homelessness. It doesn’t.”

—Senator Barack Obama, February 28, 2008, on The Ellen DeGeneres Show


edit: better linkey
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
9. It already does with farm subsidies
In essence, it forces us to "buy" into a situation that will affect the prices of vegetables.

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Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
10. They can tax you if you don't
Should they? Is it fair is it useful or effective? Different questions than "can they, constitutionally?"
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
11. Here it is in a nutshell
Congress is restraining part of the insurance company's trade: Denials of coverage for pre-existing conditions. The trade-off for that is logical and simple: Everyone has insurance. What's the alternative? Nobody buys insurance until they need it, which is to say you don't buy insurance until your doctor tells you that you have cancer. Then, without paying any premiums and without any payment history at all, you run down and get insurance and the law says the company has to cover you. As much as I despise insurance companies (people's injuries and illness are not profit centers, sorry capitalism), as long as they're in the health care mix, they can't be unfairly singled out for the sudden burden of covering expensive treatment. It's as unfair as insurance companies suddenly denying coverage for long time policyholders based on some specious "pre-existing condition" nonsense, just in the other direction.

How do we get out of this predicament? Well, we could eliminate the insurance company middleman altogether, or reduce the role of insurance companies to "Cadillac" coverage. Everyone has "Medicare for all" single payer coverage. You want to jump to the head of the line and by-pass those dreaded waiting periods that all the conservative scaremongers love to cite? You can buy your own separate insurance policy that contracts outside the single-payer system with its own doctors and specialists, and you go right in. There will surely be those who want to shell out for that privilege, and that would be a "free market" solution to fill in niches and perceived gaps.
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justiceischeap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
12. I'd prefer cauliflower but I wouldn't turn my nose up at broccoli. nt
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
14. If they need Methane....yes.
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GSLevel9 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
15. ewwwwww...
get your damn gov't regulation away from MY FRIG!!!!!!!

Tax me, control me, bill me, fine me and take my rights away but DON'T touch my food!

:D
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
16. heh
Great thread, yall!!

My feeling is that the insurance companies love the idea that everyone has to buy their policies. And this guy is working for them.

Other than that, I got nothing. <grin>
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