While the poor freeze, the ethanol producers GET a one-year subsidy extension worth $6 BILLION

this year. And if we import cheaper sugar cane based ethanol from Brazil, there is a .54 cent a gallon tax. So we waste a shit load of corn, the producers get a .45 cent a gallon tax credit, food prices go up, and Archer-Daniels reaps the benefits.


This country is so fucked.


http://www.lexch.com/articles/2011/01/03/news/regional/doc4d21f799046c5532228873.txt

http://www.forbes.com/2010/12/08/ethanol-subsidies-energy-opinions-contributors-matt-kibbe.html

America's ethanol experiment has been a costly disaster.

While ethanol subsidies and tariffs are supposed to lead to energy independence and reduce gas prices, numerous studies have demonstrated that the program does little for gas prices while raising corn prices and potentially harming the environment. In fact, ethanol is a story of rent-seeking that transcends party lines, providing $6 billion in benefits to an industry that has been created by the government.

I laugh when someone says we have democracy in the USA.

"We don't want to begrudge them their wealth."
I know these guys, "and they are just savvy businessmen."
"Look at all the baseball players."
"Its the Free Market."----

"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone


"By their works you will know them."

and people like Bonner pick at the bones of the poor while his seat in Hell is made ready.


In the end, when the Koch brothers stand next to him, they will have no good works, only the memory of their wealth and the destruction it caused.

shit?

It is a total and complete waste of money


My years of pondering this problem has only been able to fantasize about one possible solution.

Bio-Diesel Co-Opts (set up with government funds) which would take corn from the growers and convert it to diesel. Then it would store that diesel fuel and return it to the corn producers (for a fee) the next year to fuel their machinery.


This could/should reduce the cost of fuel for the people/companies producing the corn because they won't need to contribute to the profit of the oil companies. It would also separate their fuel costs from fluctuations in the price of oil as well as limits to supply from unexpected world events.



If we could give corn producers who are now dependent on ethanol subsidies to survive some other path to profitability then the resistance to reductions in those subsidies would be reduced.

We would need to follow up with laws stipulating that all diesel fuel would need to contain some percentage of bio-diesel, the same way we now have 10% ethanol in our gasoline mixture.


I know it is a fantasy, but it is the best I can come up with.

1. How can you blame renewable fuels for causing "poor people to freeze?" they're using fuel oil and natural gas.
2. Sugar cane from Brazil means massive deforestation.
3. Once Big Oil kills off ethanol subsidies, they'll be free to run fuel prices back up to $5 a gallon.
4. Ethanol comes from US farmers... Oil comes from oppressive regimes who hate our guts.
5. Without corn ethanol in the short term, we can't cross the bridge to second generation cellulosic.
6. Oil and coal depletion allowances(subsidies) far exceed any ethanol subsidy... For a much dirtier fuel.

And your hyperbole doesn't work. If we didn't use corn, we'd be in much better shape. We should have crossed the bridge (as you put it) YEARS ago, but the subsidies are like crack, once you have it you don't want to give it up.

I'm quite aware of Forbes purpose in this world, but as is the case on the DU, both side often make the case for us.


Have a nice evening.

... then accuse me of "hyperbole".

Let's engage this debate in scientific and public policy terms.

Cheers!

Keep cheering the ethanol industry on then.......

a) misinformed

OR

b) directly benefit from the boondoggle?

but not in this program?

:silly: :puke: :eyes:
I get furious when RW Foxheads spout that crap.

http://farm.ewg.org/progdetail.php?fips=00000&progcode=corn


Top Recipients for corn: 2009
http://farm.ewg.org/top_recips.php?fips=00000&progcode=corn&yr=2009®ionname=theUnitedStates
1 Clawson Farm Partnership ∗ Satanta, KS 67870 $235,667
2 Bruhn Farms Joint Venture ∗ Mapleton, IA 51034 $119,766
3 Kirkholm Farms ∗ South Sioux City, NE 68776 $90,374
4 Shafer Farms ∗ Wyoming, IL 61491 $80,273
5 Clawson Land Partnership ∗ Plains, KS 67869 $76,896
6 Cabrillas Ptnship ∗ Phoenix, AZ 85014 $74,938
7 Brown Enterprises ∗ Sublette, KS 67877 $73,925
8 Ger-bes Enterprises ∗ Hastings, MN 55033 $66,686
9 Mbs Family Farms ∗ Plainfield, IA 50666 $52,354
10 Burton Grain Farm ∗ Rushville, IL 62681 $51,490
11 Mac's-butler Inc ∗ Michigantown, IN 46057 $50,966
12 Kolb Farms ∗ Hugoton, KS 67951 $49,476
13 H K Ranch II ∗ Mission, TX 78572 $48,667
14 Beverly Land Co ∗ Sioux City, IA 51101 $46,464
15 Galloway Farms ∗ Noblesville, IN 46060 $43,828
16 Thunderbranch Acres Inc ∗ Darlington, WI 53530 $39,970
17 M & T Schanzenbach Farms ∗ Westport, SD 57481 $39,643
18 Banis Borkeld Dairy LLC Dublin, TX 76446 $36,860
19 Marvin W Dugan Greeley, NE 68842 $35,615
20 Manatt's Enterprises Ltd ∗ Brooklyn, IA 52211 $35,581

Mega farmers dip into the subsidy programs time and again.

"ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?"

So they take worthless and very expensive product.
Consumers are forced to buy it so it causes price of gasoline to go up.
Then they get $5B as a bonus.

Ethanol is a stupid and worthless concept. It needs to be scrapped. If we need to spend $5B on energy lets spend it on wind, solar, and nuclear.