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Keep in Mind It Would Take the 5th Fleet About 15min. to Show Bahrain's Emir the Door

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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:36 PM
Original message
Keep in Mind It Would Take the 5th Fleet About 15min. to Show Bahrain's Emir the Door
Edited on Fri Feb-18-11 12:37 PM by JCMach1
Not a proponent of gun boat diplomacy. I'm just saying. They are cutting their own people down in the streets like dogs.

Massive casualties reported from live fire by Al Jazeera, CNN and BBC with the last hour or so.
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former9thward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yes, let's put our military in the middle of yet another Middle East country.
How many colonies would you like the U.S. to possess?
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. We are already there in the middle of it via our base
In all seriousness, what would we do if the GCC brings in troops from outside to quell the tiny island nation?
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former9thward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Nothing. They are a sovereign nation just like Iraq was in 2003.
Our base and its personnel are not threatened and there is no one around there who could threaten it.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. The US has 700+ bases worldwide n/t
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former9thward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. I know but we are supposed to respect the sovereignty of those nations.
That is the condition that they allow the bases to be in their countries.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. I don't disagree with you
Just seems like the wrong time to suddenly start doing that

Reality is the US military is used to topple regimes, secure resources, and maintain profit-friendly environments - all the while telling the taxpayers back home it's about "democracy" and "terrorism."
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Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. It is probably only a matter of time
because eventually someone will become a threat to the fleet and its personnel.
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arbusto_baboso Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. The wisest course may just be for our forces to leave the area.
Time to choose a new HQ for CentCom, I'm thinking.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
5. This is THEIR business, not our business.
Good lord, what bloody arrogance to assume we should be in the middle of that.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Reality is we are... and our 'stability' games helped create this house of cards...
Edited on Fri Feb-18-11 12:46 PM by JCMach1
We are getting to the point where the US sides with the people, or against them. The US is really up against it physically because of our presence in Bahrain.

I am just royally pissed at the situation and the reaction by the GCC at this point. Literally sanctioning these murders.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Hear, hear!
If that weren't already abundantly clear, one need only remember history. Apparently self-realization and learning from history are acquired skills.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. The same arguments were made concerning the holocaust
Edited on Fri Feb-18-11 12:55 PM by JCMach1
The difference is we actually have considerable power to wield in this case. Our diplomacy needs to emphasize that at this point.

War crimes and human rights abuses are humanity's business.
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former9thward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. You are making the same arguments that Bush did in 2003 about Iraq.
Saddam was a dictator who was ruthless with his people. Was that justification for the Iraq war?
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Saddam was not mowing down peaceful protesters a few miles away
from one of the most powerful US naval bases in the world.

I would say that should give us a lot of leverage.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
43. Bull cookies.
What do you plan to do for the Bedouins? The Kurds? The Tutsis? The tribes of the Amazon? The murders in Darfur? And every other bloody country in the world where a majority is persecuting a majority?

It's nice words. And humane policy is good. BUT ARE YOU PLANNING TO INVADE EVERY SOVEREIGN NATION WITH A MEANY POLICY?

We did that in Iraq and Afghanistan. We saved them to death.

What is happening in the MidEast is the business of those nations. They will fight and die for their own freedom. They are brave enough, angry enough, dedicated enough. They don't need the American army treating them like incompetent babies.
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itsrobert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
7. I agree with you it would only take 15 minutes
But after that? What?
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Right now it's murder on the streets against peaceful protesters...
Edited on Fri Feb-18-11 12:50 PM by JCMach1
That is intolerable and Obama needs to give that message. And also the same message I gave in this thread. 15min my dear Emir. That's all it takes.

Stop shooting your people, or we'll be forced to take you down.
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. There are lots of intolerable,violent countries in the world.
How many should we invade? The US does not have monolithic power around the world.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. The difference is clear, we can have absolute authority here any time we care to
exercise it.

The administration needs to make the emir and the rest of the GCC aware of that.
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arbusto_baboso Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Then, of course, we'd be saddled with YET ANOTHER endless occupation after we took action.
You don't see the no-win aspects of this for us?
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
36. Does your scenario of American interference apply to any and all countries...?
Does your scenario of American interference apply to any and all countries, or only countries that the U.S. has military presence in? What is the precise and relevant moral difference between the two...?
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
17. ...and we will maintain that fleet by cutting funding for our poor.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
19. hey, we could just drop a nuke on them too. less effort. wtf? nt
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
21. I think we can be clear on one thing, Hillary's discussion with the Bahraini's
yesterday only emboldened them. Whatever she said, that was clearly the wrong approach. She also needs to clamp down on the GCC bullies who basically gave Bahrain the green light.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. what did she say to them, that encourage this behavior? nt
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. We don't know the content of her conversations... however, GCC
ministers gave unconditional support to their dictator brethren. Including military assistance if needed.
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. What is GCC? nt
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Gulf Cooperative Council
Think of it as Arabian EU and NATO rolled into one. KSA, Oman, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. so you are clueless what she said, because someone else makes choices, they become hers.
makes no sense to me. i certainly will not give this to clinton, when we have NO information
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. We can only assume she echoed what Obama said about allowing
peaceful protests. I think once again, as with Egypt, the administration is misgauging the response needed at the beginning of the crisis.

And yes, I fully understand Hillary is bound whatever policy Obama has dictated. That is worrisome given America's track-record with intelligence in the region.

Curveball anyone???
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #25
37. Therefore, post hoc ergo prompter hoc.
Therefore, post hoc ergo prompter hoc.

:shrug:
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #25
39. +1. Things really escalated since their GCC meeting yesterday.


Friday, February 18, 2011

"The council hails His Majesty's speech and wise directives, which uphold freedom of expression, democracy and rule of law.
...

"Bahrain is a very important country and what is happening in Bahrain is going to have an impact on all GCC countries, and we must work together from now on."

...

"GCC countries are standing arm-in-arm and Bahrain has their full support in all political, economic and defence reforms."

...

http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=299767



"It said any attempt to disturb the security and stability of Bahrain amounted to violating the stability of the GCC."

http://arabnews.com/middleeast/article269061.ece



Round 'em all up.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #25
42. Video taken Tuesday. Saudi security and military vehicles crossing over into Bahrain
MDaaysi Mohammed Al Daaysi
can anyone deny the intervention of the Saudi army ? http://youtu.be/IqwzGGtBVg4 video speaks for itself #feb14 #Bahrain #massacre
2 minutes ago
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
23. We should invade and bring them democracy
It's not like we're already trying that in two other countries. What could go wrong?
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
24. But but but
not a word on M$Greedia.
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. CNN/Anderson Cooper have been pretty good with their
reporting.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. As has CNNI, Al Jazeera was MIA for political reasons until today
Finally, they had some decent coverage.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
28. fuck another war.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
31. It has to be the people of Bahrain who do it, not U.S. intervention.
If the U.S. wants to do something it can STOP SUPPORTING the tyrants.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. But here we have huge leverage over the tyrants, that's my point
Of course the people, and for dieties sake, PEACE.

But, in this case, we also have some big chunks of steel that can be rather convincing if needed. We can certainly give the message to the region to chill the f#$% out like yesterday. There are human rights abuses and war crimes going on against the population right now who were protesting peacefully.

Humanity has an interest in stopping that!
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #31
40. The US intervened long ago in the form of checks and weapons.
Edited on Fri Feb-18-11 02:16 PM by Catherina
Stepping back at this point just cements our hypocrisy and complicity.

The Army is firing live ammo at the protesters from anti-aircraft guns mounted on APC's. Our tax dollars bought our *ally* heading the massacre a lot of US made weapons.

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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
38. Rec'd. We should march right in there and grab our weapons back
but we won't. We just increased, more than double, military aid to Bahrain.

Shame on us.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
41. Are YOU in a safe place?
It seems as if this is pretty contagious.. We don't want you getting caught up in a bad situation:)
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