So, here's the thing about unfunded pensions....

before I go further, please know that I managed a large budget for a very wealthy city in MA for some years in the '70 so I know what I'm talking about...to a point:-) Pensions are the last thing that gets funded in a municipality. People are hired, they are promised these things and they are actually naiive enough to believe the promises. But that pension that you were told you had at the end of a long, hard working life, might not be there because Mayors decided to let them go for awhile. Here is how it works: fund immediate needs...police, fire, public works...prices for those things go up...tax rate might go up...how to avoid that? Put funding the pension system off for a year, and then another year and then another year. One mayor figures that it will be another mayor's problem...and on and on it goes.

So here we are. We are not blaming the pols who knew this was a timebomb and figured they would take the glory and leave someone else with the problem...we are blaming the poor smucks who took the towns and the states at their word, believed the promises would be kept...had faith in the system.

Make no mistake about it...this is the politicians' fault...they have known this was a timebomb for years and years and years. Everyone has benefitted from tax rates lower than they should have been because we didn't fund this contract with our fellow human beings.If we had been responsible and funded this obligation we would not be here now. But we didn't because it served everybody's interest except the workers who trusted that government would keep it's promise. The chickens are coming home to roost and the easy target is the people whose trust has been broken.

That's the bottom line...don't let the bullshit get in the way. That is the gritty truth. I am telling you...everybody in any position to deal with this over the last 30+ years knew this was going to happen and they did nothing Now, the convenient scapegoat is to folks who kept their part of the bargain. Disgusting.

Or the contract is void.


No one thought of that? :freak:

I am sure they "thought" of it.......

or a state law. I think, at the time I was involved, we assumed it was an obligation we had to fulfill. I am trying to remember way back then and I think, in the '70's we already had a problem.

I dig into my memory bank, and I think, during my time, we tried to chip away at it...but it was already a problem when I was dealing with it in the early 70's so it must have preceeded me. So, bottom line is that every tax payer for years has had a pass on this...the benefit of this. The only people who are made to suffer from our misjudgments now are the folks who did their jobs for all of those years.

But what does that mean to a sociopath?



Trust, but verify.- Bonzo :hurts:

feeling that I am living on another planet. What has happened to us?

Looks like it might be ending, though...On a happier note. :)

I still think that is going to be the tradeoff. We either provide for the poor or fund workers benefits.

And used it for the general budget.

They also had a law where surplus money had to be refunded. And they had pretty generous benefits. Our Medicare covers single people who have low incomes whereas many states won't do that unless you have kids.

Oh and this was a Democratic party special. Republicans haven't controlled our house or senate as long as I've been around. It was fixed by the time we got a Republican Governor.

We either retake the fair share of our stolen production or we wither on the vine.

with the added bonus of a big f-u to the middle class who teach our kids, keep us safe and clean up after our shit.

...it is always good to get an inside view of things.

Unfortunately the bottom line appears to be that some contracts are less binding than others, and when it comes to public workers' pensions, they are not sacred at all. Same for workers' pensions: they got screwed first when e.g. Enron went under.

But now the screws are being turned even more, and the politicians are asking us all to join in the 5-minute hate against the greedy public employees. They go on TV and talk about how much those greedy employees make, and cynically say they "average $75,000" -- and then later qualify that to mean $75,000/yr cost to the state if you include benefits and pension -- but all the people listening hear is $75,000 and they think that's how much the base salary is.

Our politicians right now are deeply, deeply duplicitous. The Republicans are worse than the Democrats and the Tea Baggers are even worse, but they are all bad with only a very, very few exceptions -- and even those should be watched carefully as they can turn at any time due to being bought off, or blackmailed, or just drinking the koolaid.

The teachers' pension fund is not combined with that of other public employees, IIRC.

of the deal...THAT IS WHAT THIS IS ABOUT. Fuck the folks that you have already screwed. Where is the voice for us?