If we think corporations are the devil and government is great,

Dont we need more unions to protect employees from the corporations than from the government? But the trend is the opposite. The private sector unions are declining while government expands and grows their membership. It's rather contrary.

The best bet for the government unions is if they donate funds to help organize private industry. Government workers need everyone to have great benefits or theirs will be suspect as they are the servants of the people but are the last among the people to be provided for in their old age.

"we" are going to force the corps to cooperate. Otherwise, history shows, it ain't happenin'. Corps are even crippling "small" business with their (corps) tactics. Public unions provide "us" with an example. Unions should increase and remain free of corruption.

By Jove, I think you've got it! :thumbsup:

believe that corporations controlling the government is ok.

I'd bet you can't.

;) :hi:

nervous

You'd better not be implying that I do, dude.

If you are, then please take your smear tactics elsewhere.

are you so agitated by am obvious truth? Hmmm

someone has confessed to supporting corporate control of government?

I think a better explanation is that you can't point to anyone.

Your explanation is false.

and, of course, it's always easier to smear people indirectly, then hide behind the rules.

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they are hiding. But they have exposed themselves too often to fool any one.

I was agreeing with you. I suppose that might expose me, though I wasn't attempting to hide anything.

hope that it doesn't cause you ill will from anyone. Thanks.

just listen to yourself talk.

you made a silly, unbelievable claim. I called you on it. You won't address the very simple I asked it because it destroys your claim. Most people would stop digging at this point.

Dude. You hide behind untruths and are unable to carry on a two way conversation. You make slanderous false accusations to avoid the obvious truth. You should have realized by now that others have agreed with me and yet you boringly continue this pattern of a one way conversation. I have witnessed and experienced this pattern many times here on DU. The whole point of a forum such as this one is to have discussions, two way conversations. The one way conversation technique you use is a trait that is well known and obvious tactic that produces nothing other than complete nonsense. Other tatics are also used which too are unfavorable to a mature and meaningful conversation.

They do it for you.

wrong responder

:hide:

Uh...I mean the valentines, not their real ones

Obviously, they often fail to live up to that potential.

It is precisely because of those failures that there need to be public employee unions.

There also need to be unions in private industry. I certainly believe that workers in both sectors ought to have comparable benefits and working conditions. Public employees have always supported unions in the private sector. It's not one or the other. It's both of the above.

It is one thing to appear at their picket or not cross their lines, quite another to actively support union building.

or that the only union jobs that matter are private sector unions?

so does a lot of Western European countries. The right seems to think all governments are North Korea.

the government don't you? I am not talking about privately owned small corps. I own one. Only the big ones.

LOL!

would make you incorrect.

you're a part of the capitalist system! That must really give you pause.

Too funny.

capitalist. I am all things and no thing. Think.

By your own admission, you own a corporation. You are a capitalist, dude.

Too funny.

Capitalist however.

Did you incorporate your business or buy a corporation? Either way, you had to start with some sort if capital, dude. Psst...being a capitalist is not evil, dude, but it is rather funny to watch your verbal and mental gymnastics trying to deny what you are.

you along. Do you honestly think no one is making money in China or other non capitalistic counties? Is it possible to be a communist in this country? What if a person was a little of all? What would you label that person? You see, it has escaped you what labels do. I do not mean this in a hateful way.

You didn't start with a mere dollar. Please don't expect us to buy that romanticized nonsense.

Simple question: why did you incorporate?

isn't a one sided conversation. Lame

"answer your questions" because your claim is simply not believable, dude.

you do, dude.

Simple question. How much did it cost you to incorporate?

answer my questions first then I will answer the "how much to incorporate". If you're incapable or unwilling to do so and you do not answer it's OK I understand. Any response from you other than answers to my questions will be futile because no response from me will be forthcoming. Understand dude?

your claim is simply not believable and you know it, hence the smokescreen.

Similarly, being forced to survive in a authoritarian corporatist system does not make one a fascist.

incorporate his business.

Alvarado street bakery is an incorporated co-operative. It works within a capitalist system but its structure is counter to corporatist philosophy.

LOL!

LOL!

black and white.

think as capitalism?

You are the one who claimed that corporations = capitalism.

I said that.

"By your own admission, you own a corporation. You are a capitalist, dude."


Own a corporation. You are a capitalist.

it's a little silly to argue he's not a capitalist. He might like to think he's not.

Psst...I don't think capitalism is evil, especially democratic capitalism.

incorporated, he is a capitalist. He could, in fact be a capitalist, but there was nothing in his post that reveal such. With no evidence, you accused him of being a capitalist merely because he revealed that his business was incorporated. You made an unsubstantiated assumption.

This gets funnier by the moment.

Your comments throughout this thread belie a lack of comprehension of widely-defined terminology of rote everyday basic political theory. Beyond that though:

Is it really that hard to understand that a not-for-profit institution (in this case, a bakery), incorporated under section 501(c)3 of the tax-code (that just means it serves a public good rendering it tax-exempt) could hold anti-capitalism as an operational principle?

Incorporation is an organizational model which, among other things, lays out an organizational chain of responsibilities and a role-function for stake-holders. Factually, it is often used as an organizational model for businesses and other capitalist enterprises because works well in that usage. However, capitalism is in no way intrinsic to the organizational model of incorporation. It is value-neutral and one is greatly disingenuous to imply a nefarious equivalency between incorporation and capitalism.

I cannot believe I have to defend public interest corporations from a guy with a Ted Kennedy avatar. Do you understand what Ted Kennedy stood for? Oh SDuderstadt, do you get the fucking joke?

No. Probably not.

Umm, you don't, since I never attacked public interest corporations.

Duh.

"The private sector unions are declining while government expands and grows their membership. It's rather contrary."

Do you see some cause and effect relationship between the two trends? Are Public sector union jobs draining the resources and ranks of Private sector unions?

Why is it contrary? Contrary to what?

Which entity has more disparity in pay?

I don't think there is an answer to your question

over the rights of the people.

...regardless of who pays the shitty boss's salary

people who who are on the government's payroll. For example, I teach at a state university. That means I am an employee of the state I live in. But that deos not mean I am part of the government of that state.

My son works for the US State Department. That means he is an employee of the federal government. But that doesn't make him "part of the government" in the sense that we normally intend when we use those words. He doesn't make or enforce laws. He doesn't "govern" anyone or anything.

Those who enforce government policy could be perhaps considered as part of the government, since they are forcing us to obey the government's rules--for example, state police and local cops, even though they don't make the laws. Regulatory agencies could also be considered an arm of the government. But just because the job a worker does puts that worker on the government payroll, that deosn't make him or her "government" it just makes the worker a civil service employee.

This does not mean that government does not and should not serve a purpose in our society. It is SORELY needed to provide protection and oversight from the multi-national behemoths that have sprung up around us.

Since our government, in many places and on many levels, seems to be advocating and supporting the multi-nationals profits over the needs of our people, our government workers do need to be protected by unions. Our government would just as soon outsource many of these jobs to private industry. Of course, they'd use our tax dollars to do so, and the private jobs created would pay less, offer less benefits, no pension, and millionaires/billionaires would grow their wealth and income in leaps and bounds.

That's not the trend I want to see continue in this country. It's time to turn that ship back around.

Most of us neither think of government as either good or evil,we just try to make it work as effectively as possible so that it can be good.,then our ideas get trivialized as wanting big government.

I think you're being far too generous in your analysis.

Welcome to DU!

:hi:

I'd love to see more private sector unions as well, but there's nothing "contrary" about unions for government employees.

It's so rare we get that perspective on DU

:eyes:

Like if they keep pounding the message it will somehow stick.

:evilgrin:

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It's really easy.

nice try though... not

And if you think anyone here is falling for your little charade, you are dead wrong.

:eyes:

Every single time, it's an expression of "concern." :eyes:

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and how much their bosses are being paid.

in good companies i always find that when business has gone down the workers are always willing to cut their own pay and benefits to try to get through the tough times when the bosses do the same.

right now what we have is a corporate executive who fucks up and losses money and ends up getting 10s of millions when they leave as a result of their failures.

it is not even funny.

Here is a hint, concerted efforts to eliminate unions have been ongoing for 30 years starting with PATCO. You are also for getting rid of the 1935 Wagner act, are you not?

Based on past behavior, the OP author has abandoned the thread and we won't be getting any replies to our posts.

Somebody chose a particularly inauspicious time to post an anti-labor thread, LOL!

:hi:

:P

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you'd bother to read the rules.

(Yet .... not to be confused with semi-legal above board union busting as seen on the news)

When is the last time you heard of Town XYZ flying in the union busting team, hiring private investigators and setting up video surveillance of the work premises? ... Like Walmart does ... Like Jimmy John's does .... Like Target does etc etc.

When is the last time you heard of a municipality spending a million dollars on an anti-union campaign for new hires?

Not that shenanigans never take place in the public sector. It's just that it is much harder to conceal it AND the profit motive isn't there to make men and women "bend" the labor laws.

Card Check isn't aimed at the public sector for a reason.

Corporate union busting is a multi-billion dollar industry. Not so for the public sector.

Do you also post histrionics about Easter Bunny and Santa Claus? And why do you speak in the plural? Who is 'we'? Are you an organized body of people?
Just getting old and tired, this right wing crap.

It's a matter of checks and balances. The economy is rightly based on private sector enterprise, but just as we have different branches of government to check and balance each other, so the private sector and the government are two sides of the coin of society.

If free markets run amok, we'd be completely devalued as humans. If government ran amok, we'd lose our freedoms. Neither is wholly good or bad... as long as they have limits.

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You're like the Energizer Bunny of useless RW blather.