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cory777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-11 02:27 AM
Original message
'Gaddafi orders explosion of Libya's oil pipelines'
Source: Jerusalem Post/AP

Libyan leader tells security forces to blow up oil facilities, cutting off flows to Mediterranean ports, reports 'Time'; number of people killed in anti-gov't protests rises to 300.

------

"The sabotage, according to the insider, is meant to serve as a message to Libya's rebellious tribes: It's either me or chaos," said the report.

Time also reported that the insider said Gaddafi only has the support of about 5,000 soldiers in the army and that the Libyan leader has told people close to him that he realizes he cannot take control over Libya with the troops he has.

Read more: http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?ID=209478&R=R1&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter



Uncensored Activist News http://activistnews.blogspot.com
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-11 02:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. There is a lot of counter-intelligence going on... take all with a grain of salt.
People ought not assume this thing is over or determined at this stage.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-11 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-11 02:45 AM
Response to Original message
3. I went to both Time and BBC looking for
confirmation knowing the rep of the Jerusalem Post... nothing there, nada zippo, regarding this story. Not that he is incapable, but the JPost has a rep. And not precisely a good one. Sad fate for a paper that used to be incredibly good.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-11 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Here's the Time source:
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2052961,00.html

Robert Baer is iffy, but that's where they're getting it.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-11 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. thanks strange, that the google did not take me there
That said the JP used to be a great paper... not anymore, not since it became a Murdoch rag. Same total fate for the WSJ, who's news side used to be good, but these days.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-11 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. I couldn't find it either until I searched for Robert Baer and Gaddafi.
I think it was actually posted around here before. The telling part is:

Two weeks ago this same man had told me the uprisings in Tunisia and Egypt would never touch Libya. Gaddafi, he said, had a tight lock on all of the major tribes, the same ones that have kept him in power for the past 41 years. The man of course turned out to be wrong, and everything he now has to say about Gaddafi's intentions needs to be taken in that context.


A nice omission from the JP article (the AP article just posted in LBN and likely merged here does not omit this 'context').
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-11 03:03 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Yeah that is telling
so is the body language... which reveals a swagger... and not in a good way.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-11 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Robert Baer is everywhere and he speculates a whole whole lot.
Not to hate on him, because his comments on his actions in the CIA are invaluable intel, but once he retired I think he fell out of the loop to be honest. He does speak fluent Arabic and I'll give him that (he's not stupid), and he did give a big disclaimer for the 'source.' But in the end I don't think we can say that it has been definitively ordered, yet.

To think it's out of the question is silly, though, as Gaddafi appeared quite insane in his speech and I doubt very seriously it's low on his list of considerations. The real question will be if he orders it if his men follow those orders. I can see the mercs attempting it, but I don't see them having the ability (it'd really need to be a bombing run, imo, the tribes have the pipelines mostly protected).
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-11 03:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
17. The Austrian press might be a good source for news on Libya and Gaddhafi.
At least in the past, the Austrian government was on fairly good terms with Gaddhafi. I don't know whether it still is. There are some big temperament issues involved. Die Presse and Der Standard are the two reliable Austrian newspapers. I checked Der Standard and saw articles but I don't have the time to read them right now.
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-11 02:52 AM
Response to Original message
5. It's time for BP & Shell to come to the "rescue."
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cory777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-11 02:59 AM
Response to Original message
7. Gaddafi orders oil sabotage, source tells Time columnist
Source: Reuters

NEW YORK (Reuters) – Time Magazine's intelligence columnist reported on Tuesday that Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi has ordered his security forces to sabotage the country's oil facilities, citing a source close to the government.

In a column posted on Time's website, Robert Baer said the sabotage would begin by blowing up pipelines to the Mediterranean. However he added that the same source had also told him two weeks ago that unrest in neighboring countries would never spread to Libya -- an assertion that has turned out to be wrong.

"Among other things, Gaddafi has ordered security services to start sabotaging oil facilities," Baer wrote. "The sabotage, according to the insider, is meant to serve as a message to Libya's rebellious tribes: It's either me or chaos."

The growing violence in Libya has forced a number of oil companies to shut in production in Africa's third-largest oil producer and disrupted flows from the country's export terminals.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110222/wl_nm/us_libya_oil_time



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RandySF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-11 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. That should bring in NATO
if you tamper with a jukie's stuff, the junkie may hurt you.
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-11 03:04 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Hopefully not... I know I'll be prepared to protest and organize against it.
Everyone should raise their voices in case of intervention against Libya.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-11 04:00 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. Gadafi has 5k loyalists + some 30k mercs (potentially). A United Libyan Tribe has 40k.
And not to be insulting to the mercs, but you can really say that for every trained fighter a merc is half as good, half as equipped, and more likely to tuck tail and run once his buddies start falling.

If you go under that assumption, you can say that Gaddafi has between 20k going up against 40k. Bloody, yes, insurmountable, no.

A no fly zone in action is all that need be done to turn the favor toward the United Libyan Tribe at any point in the conflict.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-11 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. TIME article:
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-11 03:09 AM
Response to Original message
14. It's a message to the western oligarchs... Come beat the crap out of my citizens or I blow up your..
profits.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-11 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Or "side with the youths and I blow up your profits."
Like I said, madman, it can be taken either way. He has enough mercs on the ground to leave behind a major bloodbath. But since the generals have sided against him and it appears the Libyans are uniting against him, he will fail. Much more blood will spill due to the mercs, but Gaddafi is done for.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-11 03:24 AM
Response to Original message
16. So he's threatening to cut off his kid's allowances?
Edited on Wed Feb-23-11 03:24 AM by DeSwiss
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/23/world/africa/23cables.html?_r=1">WikiLeaks Cables Detail Qaddafi Family’s Exploits:

"It was Muatassim, too, the cable said, who had demanded $1.2 billion in 2008 from the chairman of Libya’s national oil corporation, reportedly to establish his own militia. That would let him keep up with yet another brother, Khamis, commander of a special-forces group that “effectively serves as a regime protection unit.

Though the Qaddafi children are described as jockeying for position as their father ages — three sons fought to profit from a new Coca-Cola franchise — they have been well taken care of, cables say. “All of the Qaddafi children and favorites are supposed to have income streams from the National Oil Company and oil service subsidiaries,” one cable from 2006 says."


- Parenting skills. They're the first second thing to go when a dictator's in his death throes.....



K&R
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-11 03:59 AM
Response to Original message
18. There are no journos there yet
and a lot of lies & games... still, it sounds like Q'Daffy would go there. He seems as crazy as Libyans say he is.

Suit up the Bush girls -time to invade!
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-11 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. The west likes it that way, hear no evil, see no evil.
They're doing what they did with Egypt, waiting for the outcome to become clear, and choosing that side. It's kinda fine by me, to be honest.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-11 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Acgaully there are in the East, all the way to Benghazi
they came in by land through Egypt
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