Why Do They Want Us, Poor, Sick, Hungry,Homeless?

Won't their profits go down?

The point becomes power and control, even extending into micromanaging your sex life.

we'll be desperate and we'll give them all kinds of concessions and it'll be easy for them to pit us against each other.

Right now, they think that doesn't matter, they'll sell to India which has our jobs. But a rising middle class is the source of revolution. Give them a little, they will demand more. Watch the destabilization begin.

And remember, all this is happening while our food sources are being stressed by climate change. We are going to have more food riots in the cheap labor nations. And then here.

If these bozos cut food stamps when more and more Americans need them and food prices are going up and up and up? So not pretty.

just sales, but growth. We don't have the market growth seen in Asia. We don't have the population growth either. We are getting old as a nation.

What you mean is that the parasites have sucked us dry and are moving on to suck new hosts. This isn't about "growth." Unrestricted growth is cancer. This is about a parasitical infestation that has been allowed to go unchecked and is now killing the host.

Asia is about to have huge food shortages. It is subject to intense earthquakes. Climate change is going to hit like a ton of bricks. But you think they're going to be busy buying the crap from the factories we moved there? Tunnel vision isn't going to be a good investment for the future. But you buy those Asian stocks.

American business sees long term as looking beyond one quarter. It's smash and grab economics.


Food shortages, means more opportunity for price gouging, and coercion of nation leaders.

Large areas around the world are "subject to intense earthquakes". It's not just an Asian problem.

The greedy class wants stable markets. They can't get them there. The earthquakes you find irrelevant are another piece of climate change. The tectonic plates are experiencing change because the weight of ice is no longer on them. You have heard of the Ring of Fire?

In fact, I'm living on the rim, in one of the most seismically- and volcanically-active countries in the world--Japan. The Great Kanto (Tokyo-Yokohama) Earthquake of 1923 was one of the worst earthquakes in modern times for casualties--over 140,000 people perished in collapsing buildings and subsequent fires. More recently, the Great Hanshin (Kobe-Awaji Island) Earthquake of 1995 killed more than 6,000 people and caused billions of dollars in damage. And yet, all the affected cities rebuilt. Even more recently, China and Taiwan have suffered some serious earthquakes, but those countries are still doing well economically. So I don't really see what your point about earthquakes is.

Think about it. As the US Dollar collapses because we've lost much of our jobs and have become a borrow and consuming nation as opposed to a production and saving nation. Those who own more physical wealth (the products and services you refer to) will become even richer than they are now because while many of us might not be able to afford their products and services anymore. Nevertheless these products and services will still be produced (some here and more of it overseas) and the purchasing value of these products and services will increase against the US Dollar.

Its a win situation for them at everybody else's expense. Its a combination of I got's mine greed mixed with the cult-of-self vanity which comes with wealth=power=sense of superiority and a sense of privileged entitlement. Its what the greedy always want. A sense of lords & serfs. To them its no fun that everybody can hop on a plane and travel the world and do many things they can. It diminishes their sense of privilege over the average person.

Well, my two cents anyway.

Basically, they want all of us to be so poor, so desperate, that we'd prostitute ourselves for $10

and grateful we're working at all
and convinced we're not working hard enough to deserve a better life

and if you're getting something, they're not getting it.

too many "useless eaters" (their words) in the U.S. :(

easily controlled labor

Prices go up to prop up bottom lines, so fewer can afford to buy... lower wages, prices go up, fewer can afford to buy, so prices go up to prop up the bottom line... then still fewer can afford to buy, so prices go up again to further prop up the bottom line... then even fewer can afford to buy...

Soon all you have are a handful of wealthy people who can afford anything.

I think they want it just that way.

of course, they haven't thought far enough. With only rich people
around, who is going to do all the productive as well as the dirty work?

The super rich do no productive work -- neither in services nor in the
manufacturing of goods. What they mostly do is to manipulate money
in the direction of their own pockets.

socialists are the ONLY hope for saving the world, INCLUDING the capitalists. They have no idea when to stop. Their system won't ALLOW them to stop.

As VI Lenin said a long time ago (paraphrasing), "The capitalist will sell you the rope by which you hang him." It's the truth. When greed is the ONLY motivation, ANYTHING is possible. Even worldwide distruction. If ANY of us are to be saved, even the capitalists, it'll have to be by the socialists. Socialists, communists, and Communists.

At least according to the teabaggers in TN. God I want them out of my state now. Can we just send them to Somalia? They'd like it there is no "evil" government there.

I argue with. You've got a libertarian paradise already in the world right NOW. Hell, the weather is even like Tennessee. Move to Somolia. :)

Your officially drafted to serve in the State Legislature or in Congress. Your choice, I don't care which but you have to be better than the idiots we have now. Please?

:) I've certainly thought about it off and on for 40+ years now. But life intervened.

I actually backed away from politics when I was your age (I'm guessing :)) because I figured I'd be assassinated if I actually WON any position.

Would you work to get me elected white_wolf? I'd LOVE to have somebody with an uncompromising belief in the working man run for Corker's seat. No way in Hell they'd win, but even coming close would be a positive.

I volunteered for Rogero's mayoralty run in Knoxville she seems pretty good. She worked with Chavez in the 70s and she supports living wage laws and strong unions. But yeah I'd work to help you run. I don't know much about corker, but if he is as bad as my guy Duncan then he's pretty bad. The only decent rep in this state is Cohlen up in Memphis.

I was thinking about hitting some churches first. Maybe predominately African-American churches to start with.

Maybe we'd better think about getting you to run for something. Shoot me a private message and we'll exchange email addys. Hell I might as well. I'm presently unemployed.

but I think I'm too young. Don't you have to be 25 to hold office usually?

but I'm not sure there's any age limit on local things.

That's what my TeaBagger TN cousin says... sorry... he should have stayed in CA where I could have hammered him with truth! LOL!

a dictatorship. They want our government to be just like a business: a dictatorship.


They are waging class warfare against us, we need to protect ourselves from their evil intent.

Yes, it is evil and they are evil men unworthy of our respect.

I hope more and more people begin to see this. There's nothing Godly or spiritual about capitalism and in fact, it's the opposite. It's Satanic.

anti-social personalities, also called sociopaths. These are sick people.
They can't help lying, cheating, stealing, robbing ... and all the other
character traits that are the results of having a defective conscience.
Both genetics and upbringing play a role in their turning out this way.

Yes, you are correct. The character traits such people display can be
described as Evil with a capital E. But they themselves don't feel that
it is evil at all -- unless they happen to be the victims of such behavior.

Such people should never hold highly responsible positions. Yet such
positions are exactly the ones where sociopaths work hard to get into,
because this is where the most money and power is found. It has always
been this way. That's why the world always has had, and always will
have wars! Eventually the oppressed will fight back when they feel that
they have nothing more to lose.

We see that history repeats itself again and again and again.

But, how do we prevent Al Capones from getting into positions of power?

problems with capitalism AS A SYSTEM. Capitalism's lack of morality can only ATTRACT these sociopathic type personalities BECAUSE THAT'S AN AREA WHERE THEIR SOCIOPATHY ISN'T A HINDRENCE. If anything, it's a benefit.

is bad. It's the ambitious and greedy people who fight most diligently to get to the top, and
who are only interested in getting power and profit for themselves. They can, and do, ruin
any system -- even the best. And these are almost always the sociopaths. Money is not bad.
It's how some people use that money, that's what can be bad. It's not so much the system
as the PEOPLE who run those systems.

We must elect decent and capable people into positions of power. Of course, what has been
happening until now is a question of luck. We've had good and decent politicians as well as
corporate executives. But these are becoming fewer and fewer. More and more sociopaths are
getting into these positions of power.

Looking at the Arab world today, the common Arabs are now revolting. They want to have more
say, and are overthrowing the dictators who have been oppressing them.

And the opposite is happening in our own country. Our corporatists are trying to re-establish
an oligarchy, with themselves as the dictators! They are trying to change our nation into a
Third World Country!

What's going on in the world is truly amazing -- wonders will never cease!

stated goals of said systems BECAUSE you can't know about the actual PEOPLE who will run those systems. THAT is the big unknown, the quality and ethos of the people involved in the system. So what do the SYSTEMS state as goals?

In a nutshell and my own condensation:

Socailism: The greatest good for the greatest number.

Capitalism: Make as much money as possible.

Based only on the stated goals, I pick socialism.

a small handful of filthy rich scum, who from time to time lift up a few "commoners" and dangle them as bait for the impoverished masses.

But at the end of the day this kind of society led the rich to the guillotine.

Very few people in these companies are in it for the long term. They are all gambling they'll be out retired before the system stops working.

big bucks in their pockets. And the rest will be losers.

country to a lowly paid labor group. They see themselves as world rulers with many peasants running around providing goods and services. It's the ultimate in greed, power and control. It feeds a pathology going on that pits one group against another to create their mutual demise and hence cheap labor. Rather than fighting the oppressors, the oppressed fight each other.

from written history beginning about 7,000 years ago, we know that
prior to that the whole world has been ruled by kings and emperors.
These royalty owned their whole country, lock, stock and barrel --
including the people.

Humans have had far more experience with dictatorship than with
democracy: 7,000+ vs. 200+ years. It's so easy to fall back
into the way we were, don't you think?

that technology advances, but the behavior of the species often not so much.

nm

The labor is who eventually buys the products and if they are paid too little to buy...well read the rest of the comments here - you'll figure it out.

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/business/company-focus/2011/02/23/292161/Wal-Marts-profits.htm
Wal-Mart Stores Inc. reported a 27 percent increase in fourth-quarter net income as the world's largest retailer benefited from cost-cutting and strong sales overseas.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And the US problem isn't to do with labor, but from mis-management:
“Some of the pricing and merchandising issues in Wal-Mart ran deeper than we initially expected, and they require a response that will take time to see results,” CEO and President Mike Duke said in a statement.

resource issues looming now, Globally. They may want to take their cut and preserve what's left for their own now. The timing is right. Of course, those issues are not in the forefront because they would upset and perplex those being managed.

The current level of life will be unsustainable. I don't advocate taking people's comfort levels down, but the gross inequity and mass consumption have created a scenario where the power structure now benefits from cutting and culling more than it did from mere consumerism and exploitation alone.

In my opinion, multinational corporations can shift their production and outlets around the world now in ways that can keep their profits at maximum while not relying on one country for their optimal continuity. The trends are starting to indicate that American workers are not that necessary anymore, nor is the degree of consumption.

That, along with the already mentioned breakdown of worker rights, wages, negotiating power, etc., are about the value that today's crises have to those in the upper-percentiles. The rabble are starting to realize how their circumstances and fate now hang in the balance. The lines are being clearly drawn for those who will look and see.

climate change creates unprecedented numbers of refugees, freeing up more of the dwindling resources for the very rich.

They are simply collectors trying to own the complete set.

Wealth generates money. If they have all the property then they have all the control. Default on your house and the bank takes it over, then rents it back to you. They control it and use it to make money for them that way.

Keep the masses poor, downtrodden, hungry, disarmed and desperate. :grr:

will break lose, people can only take so much.

again. Just read up history. Right-wingers don't want to
read up history. They prefer to live in their own private
world of make-believe. A sick world, to be sure!

Why should the muddleclass not be able to enjoy what they have so easily ignored?

"First they came for the poor......"

We are a global market. If we can drive costs of labor and materials to below that of say, China, the rest of the world will be looking to buy our goods because they are dirt cheap. Sure, they have to throw their own people a bone here or there, but keeping us terrified and ill informed keeps that from being a frequent occurrence.

only the supply side...so all they want is cheap overhead, i.e. cheap labor and no regulations. They have a hard time concieving the fact that no customers would result in no business.

that he had to pay his workers enough so they'd be able to afford his products, or his company would never make a go of things. And he was no bleeding heart.

work for him. He only paid his employees enough to keep them on the job.

If you make a product that very few people can afford to buy, then you better have a sterling reputation that assures those people continue to buy it, or just count on going out of business before too long.

. . . . hmmmmmmmmmmm . . . :think:

Their bottom line here in the US is in tax breaks. Consumer based profits margins are being had in 'emerging' economies elsewhere. I have stated repeatedly here that when we aren't viable as a labor market or a consumer base, the PTB will assess us as picked clean and move on to the next victim of their parasitic habit.

As for the rest of the questions, because it has put them in a position to do what they're doing/have done. The Citizens United decision last year was a signal that the need to be clandestine in this effort is no more. As they see it, it's a done deal and we don't have a snowflake's chance in hell of undoing it. Even Medusa got stoned when faced with the image of herself. A hideous wench with a head full of hissing snakes.

...for one thing, they just don't give a crap.

http://psychcentral.com/news/2006/07/03/improving-the-definition-of-%E2%80%98psychopath%E2%80%99/64.html

"So who are psychopaths? Broadly speaking, they are people who use manipulation, violence and intimidation to control others and satisfy selfish needs. They can be intelligent and highly charismatic, but display a chronic inability to feel guilt, remorse or anxiety about any of their actions.

Scientists estimate that 15-25 percent of men and 7-15 percent of women in U.S. prisons display psychopathic behaviors. The condition, however, is hardly restricted to the prison system. Newman estimates that up to 1 percent of the general population could be described as psychopathic. Surprisingly, many who fall into that bracket might lead perfectly conventional lives as doctors, scientists and company CEOs."

Seriously, who cares about profit when you have enough money to hire an army to just take what you want? In the end, these guys are animals with god complexes...women, food, property (the things that really matter)..they can have as much as they want to use and abuse.

Besides, human beings are notoriously short term thinkers....the second tier of rich people, the kind who looks for personal prosperity but don't have far reaching plans, just want to join the club. They don't see poor people. They don't care about the business (hell, they'll just move to another one once they are done looting). They don't see or care about the impact they make...they are literally consumed by how much money they are going to make this year.

who are held to be the majority of Mankind, and the triumph of the good, who are a special SMALL group chosen by God. At the end of the world, Christianity proposes that each soul will be judged INDIVIDUALLY (individual responsibility), with select individuals being chosen for redemption (Winner Take All), and the mass of Mankind condemned to spend eternity in Hell. Very little is said in Xtian doctrines and Xtian art about how the Elect will rejoice in Heaven, but an immense amount of imagination has been devoted over the centuries to depicting and describing how the Damned will suffer torments in Hell. One might be tempted to say, as a gross generalization, that Xtianity as commonly practiced and as it lives in the imagination of western artists and thinkers, appeals mainly to an individual sense of persecution by an unjust world, and a resulting desire for revenge. In the United States, with its particular brew of Calvinist sectarian influences, that thirst for revenge selects the weakest for its hatred, and identifies the weak as the source of evil, rather than the strongest elements of society. Just as one is taught to hate oneself for sinning against God, and taught to cast out the sin, in secular life one hates oneself for lack of riches, success & fame. By identifying others, similar in their lack of riches as the cause of the RWer's lack of success, the Rightwing believer "casts out the sin" from themselves, and asserts their own blamelessness by heaping it all upon others. Since poor people, union workers, minorities and rebellious women are the imaginary origin of all the RWer's frustrations, they have to be punished.

RW economics, as a political manifestation of a religious/moral worldview, don't have to produce the promised results (jobs, growth, blablahbla). They just have to reward the "Right" people, and to maximally punish the majority to satisfactorily fulfill the ideological requirements, and to be pronounced Good. As the Republicans have slid rightward over the past decade and a half they barely even mention these justifying economic goals anymore. The most they will say is "growth". Jobs are a goal only liberals cared about. And while liberalism was ascendant, conservatives had to pay lip service to the goal of employment, but those days are over. The punishment of the wicked majority is pursued through Republican and Repub-lite economic policies (regressive taxation, abolition of collective bargaining rights for labor, murderous elimination or deliberate sabotage of safety regulations, decriminalization of multibillion dollar financial fraud), so that things "will be on Earth as they are in Heaven." A small special group of Good Individuals will be allowed to triumph utterly (through Capitalist Virtue, unfettered by earthly governments) over the Wicked majority of Mankind (the Undeserving Poor) and from the heights of divine favor (or their 5th Avenue penthouses, whichever it highest), witness their inferiors' endless & squalid suffering.

So you can tell them all you want about how "If working people are driven into poverty they won't be able to buy things to make the rich richer." All the RWer hears and cares about is "working people driven into poverty." That lights up all the pleasure cells in his brain.

For them to have more, they need to take from us.

mean nothing to them. Today I learned a 35 yr old man died because he had a sinus infection and it spread to his brain and killed him. Left 2 children behind.

nm

They don't look at the macro/big picture, ie; what's best for the nation as a whole or for that matter the world.

Their point of view is totally centered on them, short term thinking and myopic vision rules the day.

Thanks for the thread, otohara.

Watch this video from Moore's Sicko:

"If you are shackled in debt, hopeless people don't vote." Hopeless, frightened, & poor are easier to control.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdUcfKhr64E

They'll take our money and go to China with it where they will just replay the whole shell game there.

any loses from one or two homeless citizens. :sarcasm:

and I am not kidding when I say that.

Republicans and Dems are giving up on an American economic recovery. The policies being put in place are for living at recession levels into the foreseeable future.

The elected bodies in their always greater committment to their corporate overlords are creating legislation that facilitates this.

as we enter the "Long Emergency" with increasing food shortages, peak oil, climate change, etc.

Just speculation, but it makes you wonder - and also why have upwards of twenty or so world-class microbiologits died under mysterious circumstances since 9-11?

I don't know the answer to that - but it's been well documented.

to no avail, many times. Especially the few months after 9-11, microbiologists were a threatened species. There IS an answer. One that would probably cause citizens across the world to drop out of the "system."
It really is imperative that we know why. The PTB are concealing something huge, IMO.
As for economics, unless we return capitalism to the regulated status of the 1950's (at least) and the income taxes as well, Americans do not stand a chance. If we couple that with strong Fair Trade laws and remove money from politics, we may survive. If we knew why the mass killings of microbiologists, we might realize that it is too late for the world....idk

on edit:
I know this sounds, and may be insane, but;
If the recent movie "2012"(?) were true and the wealthy PTB knew of an upcoming global catastrophe, had to buy their billion $ passage on "the ark", that scenario would fit perfectly with what has been happening since 9-11.... including the unexplained deaths, the "missing" billions from Iraq, the increased oppression to insure record profits.....I realize this does sound crazy but, so do many things that have happened in our RECORDED history. It sure seems like the PTB are trying to acquire ALL of the money in a short period of time.

from the site "What Really Happened":

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/deadbiologists.html

I swear, whenever you pick the brain of one these extremists, it's not long before you hear them how reading Ayn Rand made them think the way they do today...

have carte blanche to do what they do best.....take even MORE!

Throughout history, the ruling elites have tended to see the "lower classes" as an unwashed, dull-witted herd that requires tight control.

wealth at an frantic pace. Why? Simple greed? I don't think so.

If you knew a famine was coming next year but you could still purchase food this year wouldn't you fill up your pantry with as much food as you could to help weather the tough times?

Wealthy people know what is coming and we need start effectively opposing them and claiming our fair share of what is left of the nation's wealth before we, and especially, our children end up as serfs in a new industrial feudalism, or starving out in the hinterland...