Who here thinks that if and when Obama gets reelected, that conditions for the working

class and the poor will improve?


This doesn't have to turn into a food fight. I would just like to know what some people think Obama will do to improve conditions for working families and the poor.

I honestly want to know what you think he will do for us.

He is doing all that he can with what the rethugs putting up roadblock after roadblock.

He's had two years. He HAD a Democratic congress for most of that time.

And if he were going to be a GREAT president, he wouldn't have let the minority pukes thwart his plans every single time. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. If he were going to be a GREAT president, he'd be able to swing some of those moderate pukes to his side, but he can't even get them.

A GREAT president isn't one who accomplishes things with a super majority in his own party. A GREAT president is one who accomplishes things WITHOUT a super majority.

He still has a majority in the Senate.

Of course, he still has a lot of people making excuses for him.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If someone is making excuses for you, it's because you're not doing your job.



Tansy Gold

and I don't want to be tombstoned, either.

fizzle

It's possible that President Obama would do some wonderful things to improve the lives of the working class, including the working poor, as well as the non-working poor.

But my belief is that the working class needs to take matters into their own hands, and do everything possible for themselves. Now. And not wait for anyone to come out of the clouds on a flaming apple pie to save them.

What does that mean, "take matters into their own hands, and do everything possible for themselves?" So does that mean I have the power to keep LIHEAP if I just call enough politicians about it on my lunch break? Does that mean I have the power to keep cuts to education and student loans from happening? Does that mean people working 2-3 jobs just to survive can just magically take time off and propose legislation?

I do realize that working people are fucked and it's only going to get worse. But the rub is that working class people WORK too much to have TIME to work toward stopping bills that hurt them from getting passed into law. We - the working class - are powerless, even in great numbers. There needs to be some sort of representation for us in government putting the breaks on state and federal legislation that makes our lives more difficult, because we don't have the resources to do it.

It would be great if someone with ideas and specifics could perhaps propose concrete ways in which working class people can stem the tide of cutbacks, layoffs, and harmful proposals that are being thrown at us day after day....or perhaps we should just try and find the best dumpsters in town, learn the best keywords to trigger a bystander to give up some change, or start learning effective shoplifting methods? Because right now, THAT'S what "taking matters into our own hands" means.

Sorry - don't mean to jump down your throat; you're a DUer I respect greatly. But It's panic time and we need specifics and defense strategy like yesterday.

The workers who won the 8hr day were working 10-12 hours at the time. They found a way. Representatives in this system, what a joke, they are assimilated or impotent. We get our way the way we always have, in the street.

Ten hours a day, seven days a week.

The Ten hour day was won by people working from sun up to sun down, seven days a week.

As you said, they found a way.

regional and national strikes... and people in the streets.

I get it why it is a luxury, but at this point NOT doing it is increasingly not an option.

They will NOT listen to your calls... but millions in the streets, we got better odds.

Obama isn't going to do SHIT ONE for the working class or working poor because us lowlifes don't have millions of dollars to hire lobbyists to stuff even more millions of dollars in his pockets to make him do what we want.

:applause:

I hate that term

are in school or daycare. Rather than like you and I where we are just lazy bums or sluts hoping to live on the largesse of those Working Families (tm).

Where the kids work as well ("school"? BLAH...just a haven for laziness and leftist ideas)

another code word

:puke:

out of work.

gripped the beltway leadership.

I don't see him doing anything that will up set their apple cart. Maybe a bone or two with all the meat very carefully stripped off.

hope that he will step up and do something for America. nt

But making a decision to believe it will happen from this president isn't grounded in the reality of the past two years.

for every one under a democratic president than there is under a republican administration.

Murphy's Law is always in effect.

I think if Obama gets reelected that it won't be as bad as if he doesn't. But then I am a cynic, or skeptic, depending on the day

The big difference, however, would be that a republican would be getting the blame for it and bringing THEIR party down with them. I wouldn't mind as much some of the awful things that Obama has done, if they were connected to a republican.

And you want to be specific on the "awful" things Obama has done to the working class?

How about the federal pay freeze? This absolute joke of a health-care bill? The bank bailout bill which did nothing to help those in need? The woefully inadequate stimulus bill? The extension of Bush's tax cuts? The increase of taxes on the poorest? Need I go on?

Pay freeze is for all federal employees and not just the working class, HCR closes the donut hole that was a massive income drain on those retired and barely making it, the bailout stabilized the economy and has returned a net surplus to taxpayers, the stimulus bills saved between 1.5 million and 3 million jobs, the tax cuts did not directly affect the working class and gave us one of the most progressive lame duck sessions in history, and what increase of tax on the poorest? Please tell me you're not including the sunsetting of temporary tax policy.

Also the 2% social security payroll holiday will primarily help the poor and comes with the president stating outright that social security funding will still be kept the same.

And you're correct, Obama didn't enact a pay freeze on all the workers of the country. He'd kind of need to be a dictator in order to do that. So I'll file that under the "no shit" category, and I guess it's fine with you? You should also know that HCR as it stands IS a massive income drain on a great number of people. People who will now be forced to pay for insurance that they can't even afford to use. In most cases, their insurance can actually go up quite a bit with no protections and they're still forced to purchase it. And hell yes I'm including the sunsetting of temporary tax policy. For some damned reason, he didn't see fit that the wealthy's tax breaks would sunset and that's crippling the country right now. Those are Obama's tax cuts now, just as he owns the tax increases on the poor. The stimulus bill was incredibly inadequate, any prominent economist will tell you that. But you go on defending this administration no matter how contrary it is to progressive ideals as well as the man's own campaign rhetoric. It's alright, you go on believing he can do no wrong.

Not on the whole country...that would have been silly, and I would count that as me slandering you. If that's how it looks from how I wrote it, then I apologize.

Anyway, HCR has a special exemption for those who cannot afford it. Does it stink that it is not a public option? Yes. He couldn't get one. The fact is, he did try to protect the working class, and the Medicare Part D change is a massive plus for the elderly on fixed income.

And you know what? Sunsetting is not a tax raise--it just isn't. It is simply a return to actual established levels. I did not support the tax breaks to the wealthy; hell site search my username and you'll see my OP about wanting to throw my computer through the window when I first heard about it. The policies that the lame duck managed to pass after that firmly made me believe that it was a simple deal. You get two more years of the tax cuts and I get DADT ended as well as a whole bunch of other stuff I won't be able to do with the new Congress.

Oh, and his new budget calls for guarantees that the tax credit for the wealthy goes to former levels in two years. That is decisive, and frankly, a lot more strong in nature than anyone would have reasonably expected.

And again, the stimulus bill saved millions of jobs. Calling it inadequate doesn't change that fact or the fact that the economy is actually recovering, as any prominent economist will tell you.

There are no absolutes--but I think you're a lot closer to believing he can do no right than I am to believing he can do no wrong.

The federal pay freeze is stupid and it's going to hurt the poor. And HCR sucks in its entirety. He couldn't get a public option because he conspired with insurance companies from the get go saying it was off the table. You can bet your ass we would have gotten a hell of a lot more if he would have STARTED by suggesting not just a public option, but single payer right from the get go. He did NOTHING of the sort and we've got this joke of a bill because of it. He didn't fight worth a damn for the poor and rolled right over when the rich needed their tax breaks. You can justify it any way you want, but under his rule, taxes on the poor have been raised and taxes on the rich have continued. And if you really believe that either Obama or whoever else is in charge in two years will really let tax cuts for the wealthy expire, I'd like to have some of what you've been smoking.

I'm not the only one calling the stimulus inadequate, any prominent economist will tell you that. We should have been recovering much faster and much sooner. It doesn't say too much that two years later, things are beginning to turn around. The unemployment rate is still abysmal, it needn't be.

Obama has done some right while in office. His non-defense of DOMA is one of those, so is getting rid of DADT (although I disagree with how he went about that). But he has done far more wrong than right. I hope he'll change that, but I don't hold out too much hope. Perhaps if he doesn't go back on his campaign promise and decides to aggressively fight on behalf of Wisconsin's workers, I'll have a bit more hope. But I'm pretty damned sure that campaign promise means nothing to him now. I'd be delighted if he proved me wrong.

We believe and interpret things differently. I don't think HCR is perfect, but I believe it is a hell of a lot better than nothing.

I am sure you can link me to articles from this past week from people saying we need a stronger stimulus, just like I can link to the articles saying the economy is growing at the fastest level in 8 years and proportionately the fastest ever coming out of a downturn.

In my very strong opinon, Obama does not get nearly enough credit for all the things he has done right and that directly help people whereas you just as firmly believes he needs to be more decisive and stronger in his decision making.

Obama is pragmatic and deliberate--he is also a social left-leaning moderate (definitely deliberate in action) and a financial centrist (definitely centrist). That kind of positioning means everything he does is open to interpretation.

I don't think Obama is left-leaning in anything he has done. I think any rational society would consider Obama to be center-right or right. Of course, the political scale here is so fucked up because corporations have been spending billions of dollars convincing the populace to vote against their own interests. In spite of the endless talk of Obama being a covert Kenyan, Muslim, Socialist, I believe he (or at least his policies) reside to the right of probably around 70% of the country.

And frankly, the fact that the economy may or may not be growing at the fastest level in 8 years means practically nothing. First of all, you have to consider the 6 out of those 8 years we had the most fiscally reckless president ever in charge. Secondly, when talking about speed and rates of recovery, you have to consider your STARTING point. Things were so incredibly awful when Obama took the reigns, we SHOULD be experiencing a very rapid recovery. Two years into his presidency, unemployment shouldn't be as horrific as it is now. Just because things we're now beginning to recover from Bush's insanity doesn't mean that Obama's response was anywhere near adequate.

president in your lifetime who you think is "left-leaning." Ever. Bank on it.

I thought Carter was (he was still president the year I was born), unfortunately, in spite of his best intentions, he wasn't able to get much accomplished with the vicious house and senate he faced. But yes, I truly doubt I'm going to see a left-leaning president the remainder of my life. I fear that corporate interests are already far too entrenched.

then I'm sure they will work with Obama to accomplish great things.

It didn't work the last time.

We got lots of excuses.

I was just expressing what we've so often heard: "Give us the power and we'll make effective changes."

I don't know how much more the Democrats needed than both houses of Congress and the Presidency. Apparently that simply wasn't enough.

That certainly won't change any time soon.

The best we can expect in another Obama term is maintaining the status quo.

It's so hard to predict Obama. On the one hand, he does WONDERFUL things like abandon defense of DOMA and save the car industry. On the other hand... you fill in the blanks, DU'ers.

I hate to say this, but I think things must get worse before they get better. We tend to forget how horrible things were before FDR took office. Americans were willing to accept (or tolerate) the pro-union/pro-working class policies of FDR BECAUSE things were so bad.

I hope I'm wrong. Hopefully a minor miracle will occur and Obama will defy the Chamber of Commerce and all those CEO's and fight for worker-friendly policies on a consistent basis.

LBJ, Nixon, Carter, Ford, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama....

Thing will continue to get worse. A little slower maybe with Obama but that may not even be true-time is speeding up, the environment is degrading and we are running out of oil without a plan B. Many people point to the relative prosperity while Clinton was in office but he was also the guy that signed laws like NAFTA, GATT and that credit card/bank deregulation that has conspired to the sorry state of industry in the US today and he did preside over a tech bubble that was bust at about the time Bush took office. Nixon signed the clean air act, "ended" Vietnam and Bush signed a program providing Medicare D (which my mother benefits from). Of course Bush got us into 2 wars and trampled our privacy rights with Homeland Security/Patriot Act legislation-- but I don't see Obama clawing any of our rights back on that score either. Perhaps the best we can hope for in a president is someone who won't put our lives at risk waging wars, interfering in foreign nations business and who will otherwise not fuck us economically in trade agreements and give pretty speeches when warranted (at least that is my take on the general "it's okay when it's Obama" messaging.) Today's Republican front runners are of the Kim Jong Il variety so obviously are not a sane option for thinking people.

Here are my simple requests:
Don't sick DOJ on private marijuana growers. In fact end the MJ prohibition and focus on arresting some people on Wall St. who have defrauded us.

If you must scan me at the airport with radiation giving machines and/or grope my parts at least get in some professionals and roll it into my annual gyn/breast cancer screen/colonoscopy and CT scan. I only fly about once a year so that would cover everything in one shot and I'll be pleasantly toasted on valium (the test premeds) during the flight. That combines 3 items in 2-3 different govt. depts and is truly the spirit of cost sharing.

Awesome speeches. That's all.

Fucking Mayans and their damned calendar anyway!!

The most Obama will be able to do is to block Republican attempts to make things even worse.

We didn't have the votes, we don't have the votes now, we won't have the votes in 2013.

Even if we retake the House, it is almost mathematically impossible for us to pick up 7 seats
in the Senate in 2012, and that is what it would take to overcome the permanent Republican filibuster.

now! For me he just doesn't know how to take the "bull by the horns" and I'm disappointed by his laid back style. Makes me feel he doesn't want to ruffle ANY feathers and is very MUCH "middle of the road!" I'd prefer to see him stand up and SHOW his FIGHT for his base and "we the people" in general.

Sorry, but I have seen VERY LITTLE of it so far AND don't expect it to change. Will I be FORCED to vote for him? Probably, but I personally would prefer someone else.

JMHO!

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The question usually is "how much worse". At this point, I think it's akin to: "Our ship has been hit and it is sinking, the Republicans want to fix it by shooting the other side out with a cannon too. The Democrats want to fix it by putting a marble in a 6 ft. hole." Both parties are disastrous at this point. the value of the Democratic Party is in its lowest level members (see Wisconsin State Senators) but those good people would probably be just as valuable under another moniker.

That's my, probably unpopular, two cents.

and unless we are willing to face that.

any more than he can control the weather?

That this was averted is a seemingly unseen accomplishment. Things may suck but at least they're not like that---with Bush LAUGHING the entire time.

What can he do for the future? Give him enough support and we'll see.

Obama is basically a "Rockefeller Republican", that is, liberal on social issues and conservative on fiscal issues. The mess we're in with the economy is going to take liberal policies to fix, and that is not who Obama is. If oil prices go up because of unrest in the middle east, it's not unlikely that we'll see another "recession", which, considering that for millions of Americans the "recession" hasn't ended, is going to make Obama's reelection a lot harder.

I'm hoping a true liberal populist will come along that can explain to the nation what is needed, defeat Obama in the primary, and defeat the Republican candidate in the 2012 general election. Otherwise I think we're fucked. Obama is not up to the job, imho, and the Republicans certainly aren't.

looking at the 2012 senate races, I think he'll probably be pretty busy fighting for his political life, if he gets reelected. the rest of us will just be fighting for our lives.

and based on that I would say absolutely nothing.