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The Wisconsin Lie Exposed – Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public Employee Pensions

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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 12:14 PM
Original message
The Wisconsin Lie Exposed – Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public Employee Pensions
OMG! I've been preaching this for 2 weeks now! I even started a thread titled 'Deferred Compensation'. Also please keep in mind that many teachers do not pay into Social Security, making them INELIGIBLE to receive it. So of course they have a better pension. Duh.

Pulitzer Prize winning tax reporter, David Cay Johnston, has written a brilliant piece for tax.com exposing the truth about who really pays for the pension and benefits for public employees in Wisconsin.

Gov. Scott Walker says he wants state workers covered by collective bargaining agreements to “contribute more” to their pension and health insurance plans. Accepting Gov. Walker’ s assertions as fact, and failing to check, creates the impression that somehow the workers are getting something extra, a gift from taxpayers. They are not. Out of every dollar that funds Wisconsin’ s pension and health insurance plans for state workers, 100 cents comes from the state workers.

Via tax.com

How can this be possible?

Simple. The pension plan is the direct result of deferred compensation- money that employees would have been paid as cash salary but choose, instead, to have placed in the state operated pension fund where the money can be professionally invested (at a lower cost of management) for the future.

Many of us are familiar with the concept of deferred compensation from reading about the latest multi-million dollar deal with some professional athlete. As a means of allowing their ball club to have enough money to operate, lowering their own tax obligations and for other benefits, ball players often defer payment of money they are to be paid to a later date. In the meantime, that money is invested for the ball player’s benefit and then paid over at the time and in the manner agreed to in the contract between the parties.

more . . . http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/02/25/the-wisconsin-lie-exposed-taxpayers-actually-contribute-nothing-to-public-employee-pensions/?utm_source=alertsnewpost&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20110225
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. The GOP are now going after everyones pensions
This will not bode well for them
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. We can only hope you are right
I believe you are :)
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. The following example should help
Let's say one of those overpaid commie pinko teachers made $50,000 in 2010. The state takes 5% of that ($2,500) and puts it in the pension fund. So the teacher really made $47,500 in that year, not $50,000. So it's the teacher who paid for the pension, not the taxpayer.

Walker's comment that this is a "gift" is obnoxious. The taxpayers agreed to pay $50,000 to the teacher buy she only got $47,500. So she did $50,000 of work and was only paid $47,500. If there is any gift it is from the teacher to herself.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I think some of those labeling this as a "gift" believe teachers should work for free
Edited on Sun Feb-27-11 12:56 PM by proud2BlibKansan
There are some revealing comments following the article I linked. Several insist that yes, this is taxpayer money, which completely ignores the fact that it is money EARNED for work. I guess they believe we should work for free. Ok, they can go first.
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. That's exactly right
What they are really arguing is that because "the taxpayer" pays, the teacher should simply get less.

I know people who receive gifts every day - except they call those gifts "dividends" and "capital gains."
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Just pointed this out to a wingnut on a local blog
Waiting for him to reply that yes, public employees should work for free.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. Would be nice if the so-called liberal media picked up on this too.
Helloooo, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC...I ain't holdin my breath.

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RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Further proof that facts have a liberal bias
Assuming the Corporate Media even lets this story see the light of day (and, like you, I'm not holding my breath), you can be sure they'll provide equal time for fantasy in order to counterbalance these inconvenient facts.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. Yesterday CNN covered the teabag anniversary
They ignored the rallies at every state capitol.
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du_da Donating Member (239 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. This argument is a solid one but
it must be paired with facts that show the pubic employee average salary is lower than their private industry counterparts by an ammount equal to or greater than differed rate. The alternative is to show why those public employee positions deserve the rate of pay in question. Otherwise this just inflates the opposition's claim of private workers being overpaid. Thus this argument cannot stand on its own, it requires supporting evidence to establish perspective.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Did you read the linked article?
That point is made.
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du_da Donating Member (239 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. I just went back and reread it
that point is not in there. In fact, if you read the update section it discusses the fact that in some instances the tax payer is on the hook. Which sorta negates the original point. However, that wasn't what I was commenting on. I believe there was a study done recently that showed the public employee salaries as being a few percent behind their private equivalents. That evidence has to be supplied along side an argument like this because it has a direct effect on the argument's validity. Without first showing that comparison between the two salary averages then an argument based on deferred salary stands on shaky grounds. As I understand it then information is out there, it just needs to be included with the argument.
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. oh please, stay on topc. payment of pensions. these people agree to cuts so that;s BS.
the destruction of collective bargaining of usnions is the point here. not slaaries. We both know that.
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du_da Donating Member (239 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Did you read the original post?
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. yeah, it's about the penisons, FFS.
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du_da Donating Member (239 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. It's about
salary ofsets as input into pensions.
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Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
6. money that employees would have been paid as cash salary but CHOOSE, instead, to have placed...
Simple. The pension plan is the direct result of deferred compensation- money that employees would have been paid as cash salary but choose, instead, to have placed in the state operated pension fund where the money can be professionally invested (at a lower cost of management) for the future.



Sums it up!
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Minor quibble:
I never chose. My union, long before I was even hired, made this choice for me. I have to accept it. It's not negotiable.

I'm not complaining about it. I appreciate the benefit. But most of us working today weren't around when this choice was made.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
14. k&r
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Thanks!
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
16. K&R- I thought everyone knew this already-the GOP LIES-all the time,
for any reason.
I don't know why this is hard to understand.

mark

Retired AFSCME Steward
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. They lie as easily as they breathe.
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