Kabul 40 years ago and now- Picture

dress attending university in the 70s.

shocking.

:sarcasm:

that women were not liberated in Afghanistan for several years under the taliban. They had the lives of virtual slaves. This is not meant to comment on the pros/cons of our war there - just don't want people to forget what women's lives were like before we ever landed. It was hardly any kind of paradise.

what we've done there is just as inexcusable as what the Taliban was doing. The difference is we're paying for it now, you and I and every other taxpayer.

to overturn this Medieval BS --

especially since the US/CIA created the Taliban/Al Qaeda and financed it up

to 9/11 -- and who actually knows what we did after that?

Seems more like we went into Afghanistan because the Taliban were getting ideas of

their own re cutting heroin production!!

There's a video that was posted here at DU a year or two ago showing a British

Officer looking over sacks of Heroin and commenting how "the Americans just love to

sell drugs!" --

That's been a primary interest in Afghanistan and in the Golden Triangle/Thailand/Vietnam -- !!

We played war games there luring the Soviet Union into their country, on the pretext that we had to fight the Commies, that era's boogie man. And what right do we have to destroy other people's lives and countries, to play our Cold War Games.

As Ron Paul asked, a long time ago when he was opposing the destruction of Iraq, this time on the pretext we are fighting a NEW boogie man 'our Cold War policies, What if we were wrong'? And then went on to be one of the first ever U.S. politicians to basically call the Cold War excuse for all the crimes we committed around the globe, a lie.

It was all about the MIC doing business, and the only way they can do that, is to start wars.

We were IN Afghanistan since the end of the Carter years, and all through the Reagan years. And when we helped destroy their country and their culture and their lives, we left them with the remains of what had once been a pretty modern place. I met some people who had gone to Kabul on their honeymoon once. It broke their hearts, they said, to see what the super powers had done to that country.

But, hey, then we decided to go back. And airc, Laura Bush was boasting about how much we were doing for the women there. That was supposedly what was being used to keep up support for the illegal, brutal invasion.

I once said that we were doing nothing for the women there on DU and was attacked by at least five people who even though they were on this board, had actually bought the Bush lies about how great things were for the women of Afghanistan since we got there.

For some inexplicable reason there are actually Democrats who supported that abomination. I never supported it, it was obvious what it was all about from the beginning.

I hope there is a Heaven and a Hell. Because some crimes just can't be punished adequately enough on this planet. They require something way beyond what we are capable of here.

And the crime that is Afghanistan is one of them.

:applause:

in Afghanistan. Maybe because I'm a New Yorker. We asked for them to burn over bin laden and they refused. If you're one of those who doesn't think al queda was responsible, there is nothing for us to discuss. But waaaaay before 9/11, I was screaming about the fucking taliban. You can blame the soviets or us all you want for the physical destruction that occurred and I will agree with you but I take issue with whether it's better for us or the taliban to be there. Women lived as slaves, and that is not hyperbole. They couldn't even leave their house without their "master" being with them. It was a wretched life and I think even negotiating with those taliban animals is a mistake. If not wanting to ignore half the population makes me a colonialist, I can live with that.

But I was there when 9/11 happened and one of my neighbors was killed that day, a father of three who had just bought the home they had spent the weekend in and then returned to the city to go to work.

I understood the anger but never was in favor of the war. And as an aside, what has it accomplished other than MORE anger and rage against this country as more and more innocent civilians especially those beautiful children are slaughtered ever day.

The war was never about 9/11, it was about setting up bases in strategic positions to compete for the what was believed to be the world's last oil resources in the Caspian Sea. As a matter of fact, right before 9/11, the NYT had done an article about it and it was clear that this invasion was on the table, using the Taliban and women, as an excuse, long before 9/11 ever happened. And if you read Robert Scheer's report on the Taliban in the U.S. that summer, being offered a deal to allow Unocal to build a pipeline in Afghanistan, there can be little doubt that like their embrace of Qadaffi, the U.S. was perfectly willing to deal with the Taliban, even though it was well known that OBL was in the country at that time.

As for women, the U.S. secret war there, the arming of the War Lords and those who later became Al Queda supporters, the support earlier on for the Taliban, all of these things contributed to the destruction of women's rights. WE just didn't care about it.

But, it makes a good selling point for an invasion, as Bush knew well.

If you want to know what we have 'done for the women' there, read what THEY have to say about it. It will make your heart break. They want us out as they say clearly, before they were in the middle of two warring factions, now there are three, and none of them are helping women. If your child was blown to bits by a foreign invader, and if you watch the demonstrations that have been going on for years demanding that the killing of their people stop, it will no doubt that killing children and women sure doesn't help them gain any rights.

As for 9/11, it was a terror attack. Something that has gone on throughout history, but no country ever invaded two countries based on a small number of extremists acting without any government sanctions. But if we want to blame anyone, all of those known to have been involved, were SAUDIS.

The truth is this government doesn't care about terrorists, after all look how they rehabilitated Qadaffi, known to have funded many of the terror attacks of the past decades once he allowed them access to Libya's oil. Hypocrisy of the worst kind.

Women are still living as slaves and in far more danger of being harmed now than ever before. I take THEIR word for how they are living, not the word of the media or this government.

We ARE negotiating with the Taliban. We are PAYING them for the protection of our supplies and talking to them on a regular basis. And in the end, as we now are friendly with other former 'enemies' we will accept the Taliban if it suits our purposes and all those who thought they were the enemy, will have a rude awakening as we have with Qadaffi.

It is not our country, we are doing more harm than good, torturing and killing their citizens eg on a regular basis. WE need to get out and let them decide what is best for them. We do OWE them now, but bombs and other WMDs are not the way to repay that enormous debt.

:applause:

and makes women slaves again, you'll be cool with that because "we're letting them decide". Okay, whatever.

more danger since NATO troops invaded their country.

Do you not believe them?? They have been begging the invaders to LEAVE. They are killing their children, their mothers, fathers and loved ones.

I don't unerstand your point. How can you 'make women slaves AGAIN', when they are slaves and in consant danger if they dare to speak out, already??''

We are negotiating with the Taliban. What do you NOT get about this? Have you not been following this war maybe?

very closely and I know the women (as usual) bear the brunt of the problems. I don't think having the taliban back in control is the answer.

country, mainly because they 'are not listening or talking to the voices of democracy' there. They are talking to the War Lords and the Taliban and ignoring the fact that there is a democratic movement there, many brave women who put their lives on the line to fight for the rights of all people there.

You would never know, if you just read the U.S. media that was such a movement in Afghanistan. They are of no interest to the Western powers and have received zero help from them.

As a result, the women are now in the middle of three, not two, warring forces and they see no advantage, in fact the invading forces are killing more of their loved ones, than the Taliban and the War Lords, to having them there.

Iow, we have done nothing to improve the plight of women, if that is an excuse for being there, it is not true.

U.S. forces are only strengthening the power of the Taliban by paying them, eg, for protecting their supplies.

The plight of the women won't be any worse or any better when we leave.

back to the dark ages. Moving along - war is profitable.

to topple the secular Government and lure the Soviets in. That was what Brzezinski called "their Vietnam".

Why not give credit where credit is due?

We're not the only group that's done damage to that country...we're just the one that dropped the ball repeatedly when it comes to cleaning it up.

It could happen with the takeover of any of the extremist groups now vying for power right here.

We have religious extremists.

We have moral extremists

We have social extremists

We have fiscal extremists

We have pugilistic extremists.

We have very little in the way of effective checks and balances against these extremists.

And it's "Hey you, keep your head down
Don't you look around, please, don't make a sound
If they should find you now
The Man will shoot you down"

it is cause we use to all be taught that. a must. brought back memories. i am always running hand down nieces back telling her to .... straighten up

"My birthplace would be hard to find
It's changed so many times
I'm not sure where it belongs
But they tell me the Baltic coast is full of amber
And the land was green
Before the tanks came
One day I learned just how it used to be
The devils' curse brought the whole world to it's knees "

John Kay of Steppenwolf's song about escaping out of E. Germany.

The oppressed learn not to look the oppressor in the eye-it attracts unwanted attention.

to lower eyes, tuck tail between legs....

As my sig line says.

My mom used to threaten me with a back brace if I didn't stand up straight.

One of my cousins who was perpetually grumpy, used to yell at me for no reason, and say "If you don't stand up straight, you're gonna get a dowager's hump like our Aunt Eula!".

I hated her guts.

I hated being told that and threatened with a back brace. I think it was abusive and my brain felt like it was on fire.

I didn't stand up straight. Why? Because I was tired all the time. Why was I tired? Because my thyroid had died when I was ten years old and I had to start taking thyroid extract. I had to sleep twelve hours a day to get refreshed and was told I was lazy and slow. I still take thyroid extract every day, and have to the rest of my life. I was diagnosed about forty-five years ago.

Hint: You might want to ask your niece WHY she doesn't stand up straight. Is she tired from a physical problem? Is she depressed? Find out what's going on before you hassle her. PLEASE.

Find out what's going on. ASK her what's going on.

place a penny between your knees (never drop it) legs angled to the side with ankles crossed...the proper posture for a lady in 1960...not in Kabul but here in the united states.

"We liberated the hell out of this place."

SHOCK AND AWE!!!

:sarcasm:

the stories of my Afghan exchange daughter about her college-educated mother, living now in Jalalabad, headscarf, 7 children and all -- and her recollections of a freer time there in the 70s. This brave woman sends her daughters to the west - US (and defections to Canada) to get them out of the hell-hole where they live!

:silly:

Arc de Triomphe at Paghman gardens

Paghman Gardens have now been bombed out
by who? I don't know

wikipedia on Paghman Gardens
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paghman_Gardens



the photographer claims he is an Afghanistani

:(

apparently around 1999 or so...

:shrug:

was interesting. I'm sure I can get photos of Villages and towns bombed out by the US or photos of Soviet destruction too.

I think you don' t get it.
Why is our military there and spending billions of dollars.
It sure they hell an't to build gardens and schools.

"I think you don' t get it.
Why is our military there and spending billions of dollars."

I want every last one of our troops home. NOW.

That doesn't mean that history doesn't matter.

against the communists.

Designed by Brezinski.
http://www.counterpunch.org/brzezinski.html

I'm willing to entertain that argument, but do you have any support? Or am I missing something frightfully relevant to this before/after picture in the Wiki article you linked?

:shrug:

My only claim, such as it is, is that there is no evidence of the date of the destruction of the garden, save that it occurred at some point in between the two photos.

Other than the fascinating aside about posture, above, most of the posters to this thread seemingly had no trouble making the assumption that the US military campaign in Afghanistan was responsible. My point is that there was another major military conflict in the interim.

None of which is to excuse the ongoing military campaign in Afghanistan. It should end. Immediately.

I simply don't know when the garden depicted in the picture was destroyed, and I thought your Wiki link to the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan was implying that the destruction happened during that time.

:shrug:

Otherwise, why post that link? Forgive my thickness in advance. ;)

The tendency toward nihilism is one reason why they aren't always welcomed with open arms in neighboring states.

did this ... just awful

Kabul was in one piece till the Soviet withdrawal. Certainly it was pretty peaceful in the 80s.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=9581601

SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-18-10 03:37 AM
Original message
Once Upon a Time in Afghanistan...Record stores, Mad Men furniture, and pencil skirts,rock 'n' roll

Wow... they really came close, didn't they? :cry:

Click the link to see the other photos..astonishing.


http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/05/27/once_u...
Once Upon a Time in Afghanistan...
Record stores, Mad Men furniture, and pencil skirts -- when Kabul had rock 'n' roll, not rockets.
BY MOHAMMAD QAYOUMI | MAY 27, 2010


On a recent trip to Afghanistan, British Defense Secretary Liam Fox drew fire for calling it "a broken 13th-century country." The most common objection was not that he was wrong, but that he was overly blunt. He's hardly the first Westerner to label Afghanistan as medieval. Former Blackwater CEO Erik Prince recently described the country as inhabited by "barbarians" with "a 1200 A.D. mentality." Many assume that's all Afghanistan has ever been -- an ungovernable land where chaos is carved into the hills. Given the images people see on TV and the headlines written about Afghanistan over the past three decades of war, many conclude the country never made it out of the

But that is not the Afghanistan I remember. I grew up in Kabul in the 1950s and '60s. When I was in middle school, I remember that on one visit to a city market, I bought a photobook about the country published by Afghanistan's planning ministry. Most of the images dated from the 1950s. I had largely forgotten about that book until recently; I left Afghanistan in 1968 on a U.S.-funded scholarship to study at the American University of Beirut, and subsequently worked in the Middle East and now the United States. But recently, I decided to seek out another copy. Stirred by the fact that news portrayals of the country's history didn't mesh with my own memories, I wanted to discover the truth. Through a colleague, I received a copy of the book and recognized it as a time capsule of the Afghanistan I had once known -- perhaps a little airbrushed by government officials, but a far more realistic picture of my homeland than one often sees today.




A half-century ago, Afghan women pursued careers in medicine; men and women mingled casually at movie theaters and university campuses in Kabul; factories in the suburbs churned out textiles and other goods. There was a tradition of law and order, and a government capable of undertaking large national infrastructure projects, like building hydropower stations and roads, albeit with outside help. Ordinary people had a sense of hope, a belief that education could open opportunities for all, a conviction that a bright future lay ahead. All that has been destroyed by three decades of war, but it was real.



I have since had the images in that book digitized. Remembering Afghanistan's hopeful past only makes its present misery seem more tragic. Some captions in the book are difficult to read today: "Afghanistan's racial diversity has little meaning except to an ethnologist. Ask any Afghan to identify a neighbor and he calls him only a brother." "Skilled workers like these press operators are building new standards for themselves and their country." "Hundreds of Afghan youngsters take active part in Scout programs." But it is important to know that disorder, terrorism, and violence against schools that educate girls are not inevitable. I want to show Afghanistan's youth of today how their parents and grandparents really lived.

snip

slideshow link:
http://wn.com/1950%27s_1960%27s_afghanistan_was_better_...

click link on the right..

...............................

they got changed into another Iraq.

Increase in power from the Taliban? I'm skeptical, but sorry if I'm wrong.

That was kind of cool. Did we build those? Or was it the Afghan communists, Soviets, Mujahadeen, Northern Alliance or Taliban?