Court officers scold defendants: 'Pull up your pants, or get out of court!'

Court officers have become the fashion police, scolding defendants who wear saggy pants and forcing them to cover their rear ends.

Men whose low-hanging jeans expose underwear are regularly chastised or booted from courtrooms.

"That's my right to wear them this way!" one defendant recently said when a court officer in the Bronx hassled him.

"Not in our house," she shot back.

The teen was not allowed to see the judge until his pants came up.


http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/03/07/2011-03-07_pull_em_up_or_get_out_of_court.html

I have two friends on Facebook who are reserve deputies and they constantly post stuff about saggy pants.

Civics 101.

However, the article referred to court officers becoming fashion police, which are also known as bailiffs, and they tend to be members of the sheriffs department.

if you're in jail your belt is taken away and if there's an inch or two of slack in the waistband they'll ride low on the hips (if not fall off).

someone to do something stupid in a court with someone standing over your freedom. Not a good impression maker

Best quote of the 2008 campaign :patriot:

It usually ends up not being good for you.

I can smile and say "Yes sir, no sir" with the best of them. What I think is a totally different thing.

Okay, long story but I was painting the fascia and cold weather set in so I had to wait to finish; I had already hired a company to put the rain gutters up when I finished; during the cold snap (you're not suppose to paint below 40 degrees), the codes enforcement officer came around and cited me although I had an understanding with the previous codes officer who just retired, etc. etc. etc.

Anyway I had to appear in court, so I did research--printed off weather reports for that time showing I couldn't paint and had a copy of the estimate from the rain-gutter people showing I was serous about finishing my painting, etc. etc. etc.

So I put on my best suit and put the papers in my attache case and headed to municipal court.

As I walked up to the entrance a bailiff or some kind of court officer met me and asked if I needed help. I told him I was to appear in court. He asked:

1) Are you a lawyer? I said "no"
2) Are you the plaintiff? I said "no"
3) You are...the defendant? I said "yes"

He asked in a way that left me wondering--his voice for the third question sounded a incredulous tone and I wondered what that was all about.

Anyway, I found out why. I went into the main courtroom where you're called and assigned a smaller court room. There must have been some 60-70 people in that room and only a handful of us were wearing coats and ties! Most of the people looked like they just rolled out of bed! Many had sweat shirts and pants and wearing baseball caps!

I was amazed. I had never been to court before but always knew you dressed up. Matter of respect.

But I was truly amazed at what I saw that day!

If you want to be treated with respect, you dress respectfully. As a young woman working in the business community ages ago, I wore clothing that was feminine, but "serious."

My girlfriends and I always dressed up to shop at good stores. The customer service is much better when you do.

A study was done a few decades back by a newpaper in the city I lived in. They were testing the customer service response to 3 people; one dressed in a suit, one dressed like a working class person in jeans, and one obviously dressed as a homeless person.

They sent all three to various shops in 3 areas of town; a mall, the burbs and the business district (where I was managing a restaurant at the time). The results were that the suit got good service pretty much everywhere, the working class person in jeans got good service in the biz district and the burbs, but not so much at the mall, and the homeless looking person only got treated the same as everyone else in the biz district while mostly ignored at the mall and burbs. Interestingly those of use who provided service in the biz district knew that you can't judge a book by it's cover and that you have to treat everyone with dignity because ALL of your customers notice it when you don't.

So yah - I dress up for meeting, shopping (for certain things - I dress like a poor person when I car shop) and expecially at restaurants. Court. I'd wear a suit and speak very clearly and respectfully. Courts are crucibles - you don't want to get burned.

Where the hell do you live?

Sounds like some sort of petty backwater dictatorship.

which is true even of civil infractions. What's the problem? That he got a ticket for it in the first place?

I plead "not guilty" and the city scheduled a date for me to appear before the city attorney.

I was going to present all the documents to show I was not in violation because I could not finish the painting job due to considerations beyond my control.

I still paid court costs, though...

Are there environmental issues? Public safety issues? Or is it merely cosmetic and conformity?

For instance I know of a small town nearby (mainly Calvinists) that has an ordinance regarding height of grass. They will fine you if your grass is over a few inches tall. This isn't about overgrown yards that attract critters, but manicured lawns which the reigning Calvinists want to represent their town.

And the codes are very stringent in this town...:scared:

Code enforcement is code enforcement. Some of them may seem arbitrary, and upon further study there is good reason for them. Others may be truly kind of stupid and arbitrary. So be it. It's not something I'd get incensed over, although I hope a code enforcement officer would give a warning for this kind of thing and only cite if the problem wasn't fixed.

I was given a date to talk to the City Attorney. It was some six weeks hence but I had to prove I had corrected the problem.

Anyway, during that time, the weather warmed up, I finished painting and the rain-gutter crew finished the project.

So I go meet with the City Attorney (a codes enforcement officer had been out to "inspect" my house and reported that all was up-to-code), and I again dress in a suit and tie.

Well, I'm standing outside the door to a city-government conference room where the C.A. has set up shop to deal with citations/complaints. That was surreal! The door was open and I'm about fifth in line, so I can hear the "back and forth" between lawyers for defendants and the C.A.

There was a lot of friendly talk:
Hi, hi’ya doin;?
Okay, how’s things with you?
Good. Well, it seems Joey, the son of a friend of mine, got into some trouble with the local police (insert seemingly innocuous teen offense here)
Well, let’s (insert deal here).
Hey, thanks!
No problem!

When I went into the room, I felt I was at a disadvantage since he didn't know me or my family, so he was going to be really tough on me! He starts out be saying, "Well, since this is the first time you've appeared before me..." "Appeared before me...?" Sounds like a judge!

Turns out, he just gave me the "we take our municipal codes seriously in this town" lecture and I was on my way...

I live in a burb of Los Angeles County. I straighted it out on the phone but like the other poster I was really nice and respectful even though I was steaming over something so stupid! Some areas are just really anal about petty stuff.

all the while we detain people illegally, argue whether it's okay to illegally torture and invade sovereign nations. But god forbid your neighbors have to see your trash bin or your gutters are down for a few months.

Sick.

But after enforcing an improved drainage code, it is now a petty dictatorship.

For posts like yours.

mothers no you take your cap off, tuck you shirt in and god forbid you do not wear shorts to court.

:P

No hats, no shorts, no flip flops, and not exposed underwear and just some of the rules I have seen.

looking like an idiot it's going to cost you. It doesn't matter if you've show your "idiotness" by wearing your pants around your ankles or by showing up in flip-flops and Bermuda shorts.

If the Judge doesn't like it you will pay in one way or another.

If you have to go to court, put on some clean clothes and learn to say "yes sir, no sir".

I don't really care how people dress. Sagging your pants is okay with me. You look like an idiot but you have a right to do so and hey, I'm actually appreciative of the fact that you're letting me know you're a probably a dumbass and best avoided. But hey, if that's your fashion thing, more power to ya.

That being said, if you're in court, chances are good that your Poor Decisions are in some small or large way catching up to you. Making the person who's about to decide if your traffic ticket gets dimissed or if you're out 150 bucks think you're an idiot is a bad idea. As the scale of the violation that has you in court increases, your ability to make a good first impression on the judge also becomes more important.

Just... excellent :patriot:

you don't have the right to do whatever you please in court. Sorry you weren't able to learn that sooner kid, blame your teachers, or parents, or TV, or whoever but at least you know now.

BTW: antagonizing a judge for no purpose, even when you are within your rights, is not always the best idea.

By such antagonism, if it is shown that the actions by that judge, or actions of the accusations, are not just and compassionate.

As was the case of trying to take my beer and travel money, because in that case you realize it is a false judge trying to take from you for wrong reasons.

What you are mentioning is the policy of appeasement. If the case or judge can be shown wrong, then you stand, a bad judge gets angry and gets off balance, and removes himself, or is removed by a higher court, a good judge learns and agrees. If you are correct of coarse.

So if you are correct, stand till the entire system changes.

And I am still due beer and travel money and many experiences.

or who looks like an idiot, or who is just plain annoying don't belong in the courtroom (or the classroom, or the hospital, or...). Unfortunately, humans are incapable of completely avoiding prejudice, so it's smartest just to play the game...

(And to pick a nit, it was the bailiff rather than the judge in this case.)

but you do have to show a certain amount of respect in a court. It's a place of law, not a bar.

And having your pants hanging around your ankles isn't some kind of civil disobedience meant to make the world a more just place.

The kid was just being obnoxious.

Hopefully he learned a lesson.

Hang around a bit - it's kinda randoms thing. I think it's used as a spring board or hyperbole etc to illistrate a point, in this case to highlight the mindset of the saggy pants dude that was tossed out of court.

For that beer and travel money he's looking for.

And where is he traveling?

And are either done as a part of official DU business?

I will of course need to see receipts.

I think you conflate antagonism with a request for appropriate decorum and respect, much like many people do in their own homes-- requesting that visitors not to appear dressed only in tighty-whiteys and cowboy boots is not I would think, antagonism.

If I can't dress up in tighty whiteys and a cowboy hat everywhere I go and successfully demand to be treated like anyone else then what has this all been about?


Why did we even fight the revolution?

Right now I'm at work wearing nothing but the top half of a badger mascot outfit I stole a while back. You have a problem with that?

maybe not.

:P

:hi:

I was kidding back

I'm glad you knew that :-) sometimes I'm hesitant about kidding people here because it doesn't translate and people get mad.

You don't have to show up in an Armani suit, but at least look like you tried.

there is nothing anyone can do about it.

defendants or jurors. Plaintiffs in civil cases for that matter. We're casual here in Florida, but I've seen folks who could easily make the People of Walmart website.

You don't have to look like a fashion model, but a little bit of modesty never hurt anyone.

:)

Middle aged women everywhere! Join me in "busting a sag" in front of our teenagers, the fad will go away quickly.

it means to wear one's pants low.

Dress appropriately, it's not that hard to do.

Although, I think it may have been found to be unconstitutional.

I love an excuse to post this art, which is attached to the inside of my
door as a guideline for my kids to check it before they leave the house.

...department for an 'interview'. I was dressed like I had just stepped out of work at a Fortune 500 company (except the attire was affordable) when I walked in. The probation officer conducted the interview, and, some time later, when court came I dressed up the same way. The PO had suggested no jail time for me, although I did get some probation. I was polite and friendly with the man every time I went to see him, showing up on time, and after about 6 weeks we mainly chatted about the weather and his preferred activity (cycling). One time I asked him why he had suggested that for me, and he told me it was because I was the first person coming in that was properly dressed that he had seen in the previous 9 months, and always answered 'yes sir' and 'no sir'.

I remember being struck by JUST how incredible I thought that was at the time; it seemed such an obvious thing. So it's not just court, folks. Anytime you're interacting with law enforcement, do your level best to appear as 'nicely' as you can. It can accomplish more than a good lawyer sometimes, and is substantially cheaper too!

and this is no different. I've seen people show up in court in flip flops and shorts. Even muscle t's. It's ridiculous

:rofl: :D

It's not an issue of respect, but one of common sense. I see people in lines, even for international flights, wearing flip flops or strappy high heels, shorts and tank tops, extremely tight and uncomfortable clothes, etc.

Do they not realize how much walking they're going to have to do while traveling? That they're going to have to sit and possibly sleep in those clothes for hours? That the airlines may lose their luggage and what they have on may be all they will have to wear for a couple of days, no matter what they have planned to do upon arrival and what the weather might be like there? etc., etc.

When I travel in the summer, I do wear shorts & sandals, because I live in Georgia & summer is very hot here. Sandals or flip flops are easy to get on & off to get quickly through security, especially when traveling with kids.

That said, I would never wear high heels to travel, because I find them uncomfortable. YMMV.

It's also not hot on most flights, and cotton blend pants aren't hot.

Common sense, and some would say, appropriateness.

If you are taking US Airways to the Hudson River, it can get chilly out there.

I had some problems earlier in life and had to go to court a few times. My dad knew how volatile I was and reminded me that you get much more from being nice and cordial than you do being an ass.

I really don't have a problem with those boys being told to pull up their pants. the courtroom is supposed to be a respectable place. Besides, every time I see one of them with their ass showing I want to scream the same thing. It is a lot different than just ordinary outrageous attire. It is like their are mooning the whole world. And I don't think I should have to see someone's ass in public.

never understood it.

I'm amused at the sagging pants fashion when I try to help those who wear them. If they need to sign a form for example, they'll fidget and strain to try to sign with one hand while holding the pants up with the other! It's hilarious!

Is like they're trying to go through daily life with one working hand!

it looks clownish and sloppy. i love old photo's of the 50's and 60's when being hip was wearing shades with a suit.
Hip was a state of mind, usually backed up by a political or artistic philosophy.

Now it all rests on outer appearances, backed up with superficial corporate/clan identity.

it's disgusting to have to see someone's dirty underwear or their dirty butt crack. :puke: Those low hanging pants have to be one of the ugliest "fashion statements" to ever come along. :puke:

I've done it. Once. I was there for jury duty, and was personally escorted from the courtroom by the bailiff. The judge was also "kind" enough to order me scheduled for jury duty AGAIN the following week, and suggested that I be "attired appropriately" if I didn't want to see the inside of a jail cell.

In all honesty, though, I was dressed in shorts and a t-shirt as a gambit to get out of jury duty. I won't make that mistake again :\

sitting in the back of the room while I waited for my friend's case to come up was reading a newspaper. The bailiff came over and told me that the judge was really irritated with me. I was told the judge would have me thrown out of the courtroom if I continued. :wow: I was humiliated :blush: of courseI immediately put it away. Later I talked to the bailiff and he said that judge was really anal on stuff like that, also no gum chewing and heaven forbid if you were to fall asleep. It's their room (the judge) and they can do whatever they damn well please.

The way a lot if people do it, it is noisy and distracting.

I have had to go to court for an insurance issue (back in the 90's), an intruder at my house, and a speeding ticket

I go to church on Easter (in-laws church)huge Baptist church.

I have seen Stone Cold Steve Austin type shirts in both.

I was learned to wear a suit to court or to church or any other official function.

:thumbsup:

:rofl:

Also, doesn't it violate someone's constitutional rights if the deputies refuse to let the defendants see a judge? I'm no lawyer, but it sounds like a violation of the law if you ask me.

"One former prosecutor relishes telling the story of the time Matsch assailed a potential juror who showed up for duty wearing very short shorts. He dismissed the man after humiliating him before the court. The next juror, who also happened to be wearing shorts, looked horrified. But before he could come forward, Matsch recessed for lunch. When he reconvened, the same juror was called forward -- this time wearing a three-piece suit."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/oklahoma/stories/judge.htm

and you should expect them to reciprocate

Most judges and court officers aren't dicks as long as you behave. I attend open court sessions on a regular basis, and usually, court officers and judges are pretty good about accidental slips and mistakes. I was watching a proceeding that was pretty empty, and when the judge asked me a question, I forgot to stand when I answered him. He cut me off with a calm "Excuse me?" and waited until I stood before I could continue.

It's just a very institutional setting that demands a certain respect. It's not asking too much to just wear a belt when you go into a courtroom.