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Please explain how we can justify spending money on this third war. OUR own citizens deserve better.

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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 08:54 PM
Original message
Please explain how we can justify spending money on this third war. OUR own citizens deserve better.
DEBT:

As of February 28, 2011, the Total Public Debt Outstanding of the United States of America was $14.19 trillion and was 96.8% of calendar year 2010's annual gross domestic product (GDP) of $14.66 trillion. Using 2010 figures, the total debt (96.3% of GDP) ranked 12th highest against other nations.<snip>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

DEFICIT:

WASHINGTON — A surge in oil prices helped push imports up at the fastest pace in 18 years in January, giving the country the largest trade deficit in six months.

The Commerce Department said Thursday the January deficit increased 15.1 percent to $46.3 billion. <snip>

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42005784/ns/business-eye_on_the_economy/

UNEMPLOYMENT:

The number of unemployed persons (13.7 million) and the unemployment rate (8.9
percent) changed little in February. The labor force was about unchanged over
the month.<snip>

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

HOMELESSNESS:

In a recent approximation USA Today estimated 1.6 million people unduplicated persons used transitional housing or emergency shelters. Of these people, approximately 1/3 are members of households with children, a nine percent increase since 2007. Another approximation is from a study done by the National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty which states that approximately 3.5 million people, 1.35 million of them children, are likely to experience homelessness in a given year (National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty, 2007).<snip>

http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/How_Many.html

INFRASTRUCTURE:

<snip>
“How bad is our nation’s infrastructure deficit? A recent report card from the American Society of Civil Engineers estimated that it will cost $2.2 trillion over a five-year period to raise the U.S. infrastructure grade from poor to acceptable. Measure this against the roughly $100 billion from the 2009 “stimulus” legislation that had in fact gone toward infrastructure construction projects as of last fall. Deficit-ridden cities find putting off preventive maintenance and replacing obsolete equipment as tempting ways to cut budgets. Henry Petroski, professor of civil engineering and history at Duke University, warns: “Potholes know no politics….Bridges will corrode and collapse. Pipes will crack and burst. The physical foundations of our civilization will crumble under the weight of our complaints about it and our neglect of it. It will happen so fast it will be impossible to keep up with its repair.”

“The dilemma posed by infrastructure spending was seen in microcosm last fall when New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie stopped work on a new commuter-train tunnel that would run under the Hudson River into Manhattan. A federally-assisted project that was supposed to cost $8.7 billion faced a revised cost of $11 billion to $14 billion. “I can’t put taxpayers on a never-ending hook,” Christie said. The fact that the nation can’t even afford to build a railroad tunnel under a river highlighted the failure of government to bring the nation’s infrastructure up to 21st century standards. This includes America’s out-of-sight network of water systems, some of them built by our great-grandparents and now threatening public health and safety.

“Meantime, many nations around the world look to the future by developing critical infrastructure. China plans to spend $295 billion in the next decade to build a high-speed rail network, totaling 10,000 miles, that will connect its major cities. A World Bank report last July praised the project, saying it could speed passenger traffic, free up overloaded freight routes and reduce dependence on autos. One route, between Shanghai and Beijing, could cut travel time from 10 hours to four at speeds up to 302 mph. And China will spend $10 billion to connect the inland cities of Chengdu and Xi’an with a 320-mile railroad that will cut travel time to two hours from the current 13. Contrast this with the decision by the newly elected governors of Wisconsin and Ohio to forgo $1.2 billion in stimulus money for passenger-rail projects in their states. And a high-speed rail project in California that would connect Los Angeles and San Francisco has been derided by critics as “a train to nowhere” because the first leg would connect L.A. with the inland city of Bakersfield.

“While the United States is in retreat from big public works projects, on the grounds of can’t-afford-it, other nations with equally bad debt problems have taken a different course. Britain’s prime minister, David Cameron, cut dozens of social and military programs when he took office last fall. But he also unveiled a National Infrastructure Plan, a blueprint for spending $316 billion of public and private money over five years in his country’s railways, power stations, roads, internet access and scientific research. “The government is keen to point out,” said The Economist (Oct. 30, 2010), “that unlike many of its predecessors it has avoided the temptation to slash capital spending during a downturn, a habit that helps explain the current ropy state of the national infrastructure.”<snip>

http://kgab.com/infrastructure-decay-in-the-united-states-cost-2-2-trillion/

COST of LIVING:

U.S. cost of living hits record, passes pre-crisis high
By John Melloy, CNBC

One would think that after the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, Americans could at least catch a break for a while with deflationary forces keeping the cost of living relatively low. That's not the case.

A special index created by the Labor Department to measure the actual cost of living for Americans hit a record high in February, according to data released Thursday, surpassing the old high in July 2008. The Chained consumer price index, released along with the more widely-watched CPI, increased 0.5% to 127.4, from 126.8 in January. In July 2008, just as the housing crisis was tightening its grip, the Chained consumer price index hit its previous record of 126.9.

"The Federal Reserve continues to focus on the rate of change in inflation," said Peter Bookvar, equity strategist at Miller Tabak. "Sure, it's moving at a slower pace, but the absolute cost of living is now back at a record high in a country that has seven million less jobs."

The regular CPI, which has already been at a record for a while, increased 0.5%, the fastest pace in 1-1/2 years. However, the Fed's preferred measure, CPI excluding food and energy, increased by just 0.2%. <snip>

U.S. CITIZENS WHO HAVE NO HEALTH CARE INSURANCE:

Number of uninsured Americans rises to 50.7 million

By Richard Wolf, USA TODAY

A record rise in the number of people without health insurance across the nation is fueling renewed debate over a health care law that could to work better at boosting coverage than controlling costs.

More than 50 million people were uninsured last year, almost one in six U.S. residents, the Census Bureau reported Thursday. The percentage with private insurance was the lowest since the government began keeping data in 1987.

The reasons for the rise to 50.7 million, or 16.7%, from 46.3 million uninsured, or 15.4%, were many: workers losing their jobs in the recession, companies dropping employee health insurance benefits, families going without coverage to cut costs. Driving much of the increase, however, was the rising cost of medical care; a Kaiser Family Foundation report shows workers now pay 47% more than they did in 2005 for family health coverage, while employers pay 20% more.

SENIORS: Despite recession, they see income gains

Although the health care law signed by President Obama in March is designed to insure an additional 32 million people in public and private programs, it doesn't fully kick in until 2014. For the next few years, experts say, the problem could get worse. The average cost to insure a family of four is already about $14,000.<snip>

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-09-17-uninsured17_ST_N.htm


TEACHER SALARIES IN THE UNITED STATES:

Every few years the American Federation of Teachers releases a Teacher Salary Trends report about teacher salaries across the United States. This information helps teachers decide where to teach and how much they should earn. The latest report indicated that the average teacher salary was $47,602. The Federation indicated that unfortunately, teachers are struggling to find housing in their areas that they can afford on their salaries. As more teachers pursue additional education after receiving their bachelor’s degree, their student loan debt increases dramatically. New teachers may not start at an average teacher salary and could therefore struggle even more than veteran teachers, who may have higher salaries.<snip>

http://www.employmentspot.com/employment-articles/teacher-salaries-by-state/

CONDITION of U.S. PUBLIC SCHOOLS:

Schools

Spending on the nation’s schools grew from $17 billion in 1998 to a peak of $29 billion in 2004. However, by 2007 spending fell to $20.28 billion. No comprehensive, authoritative nationwide data on the condition of America’s school buildings has been collected in a decade. The National Education Association’s best estimate to bring the nation’s schools into good repair is $322 billion.<snip>

http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/fact-sheet/schools

UNION BUSTING BECAUSE THE STATES ARE BROKE:

Governors who are less prone to macho posturing than Walker are pleading poverty – "we're broke!" they say. And indeed, they are.<snip>

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/feb/18/us-unions-wisconsin1

UNITED STATE OF AMERICA LETS U.S. CITIZENS GO HUNGRY:

Record numbers go hungry in the US

Government report shows 50m people unable to put food on the table at some point last year.<snip>

<snip>
The number of children living in households where there were shortages of food at times rose by nearly one-third to 17 million. The report says that most parents who did not get enough to eat ensured their offspring received sufficient food but that more than 1 million children still suffered outright hunger.

The worst affected states are in the south with Mississippi having the largest proportion of its population enduring shortages of food followed by Texas and Arkansas. More than half of those affected are minorities, principally black people and Hispanics.<snip>

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/17/millions-hungry-households-us-report

COST OF IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN WARS:

Jan 14 (Reuters) - The cost to U.S. taxpayers of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2001 has topped $1 trillion, and President Barack Obama is expected to request another $33 billion to fund more troops this year.

Over two-thirds of the money has been spent on the conflict in Iraq since 2003. This year is the first in which more funds are being spent in Afghanistan than Iraq, as the pace of U.S. military operations slows in Iraq and quickens in Afghanistan.

HOW MUCH HAS BEEN SPENT ALREADY?

Congress has approved $1.05 trillion dollars for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to the National Priorities Project, a nonpartisan budget research group that has a continuously running war cost counter on its website.

The tally topped $1 trillion last month, when U.S. lawmakers approved the fiscal 2010 defense spending bill that included $128 billion to be spent on the two conflicts through Sept. 30. The trillion-dollar total includes war-related costs incurred by the State Department, like embassy security.<snip>

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/01/14/afghanistan-iraq-usa-costs-idUSN1415708320100114



Okay....explain it away. Go ahead.
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Moondog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. Can't be done. n/t
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
44. no way, no how
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cantbeserious Donating Member (270 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
2. Our Country Is Mad - Is There Any Doubt?
eom
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. "they arent worth saving from massacre"
isolationists are evil.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Well THAT's a new one! Now we're "isolationists?"
:rofl: OMG
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. "Isolationist" is what warmongers call us to shut us up. nt
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silver10 Donating Member (492 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. exactly!
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jacquelope Donating Member (364 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #12
41. Amen to that!! n/t
.
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jacquelope Donating Member (364 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. "Sorry, Johnny, you can't eat, we have Libyans to save first."
.
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silver10 Donating Member (492 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. There's dozens of countries around the world who have terrible leaders...
Should we start a war with them all to overthrow their governments, or just the ones with oil and mineral resources?

Hope we can count on your enlistment in this war - the army is always looking for a few good men and women (a.k a. cannon fodder).

Support your local defense contractor today! The economy needs you!
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
48. Who are you quoting?
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. Get back to me when the United States is spending more than typical exercises on this war.
I expect that their role will be as Obama said, and will take a backseat to the UK and France.

Are you British or French?
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Missiles = $600,000 EACH. We have already fired hundreds upon hundreds of them.
I don't care if it costs a fraction of other war exercises. We shouldn't be spending ANYTHING on it. OUR citizens have dire NEEDS.
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silver10 Donating Member (492 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
25. I thought it was closer to $1 million a piece, plus shipping and handling
But I agree with you. We have no business spending a dime on more war.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #25
34. The $600,000 quote is from General McCaffrey on MSNBC today.
I suppose certain missiles do cost more.
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patrick t. cakes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
51. are you an anarchist?
or a chicken hawk?
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
6. The practical thing to do would be a Senior Citizens Draft
:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Don't joke! That's probably next!
:(
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SpartanDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
10. Who cares about genocide
it's all about us
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Oh, that's such a unique argument and
quite lame. No one has said Gadhafi shouldn't be removed from power. WE shouldn't be involved in it. WE have needs in our own country. I'm sick and tired of our citizens paying for these wars and suffering from the lack of EVERYTHING because of them.
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cutlassmama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. WE need oil. This is about oil. That's why WE are there.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Shitty excuse. n/t
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
13. We had 110 Cruise missiles that were right at their expiration date.
Thats 66 million dollars that didn't go to waste. :sarcasm:
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Well that explains it.
I'll sleep better tonight. :)
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. You wouldn't want a perfectly good weapon to go to waste, would you?
Too bad there's no positive use for them.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #24
45. Think of the mililtary contractors.
Asking for handouts on the street corners. At the very least, having to get civilized occupations. Guidance control systems don't just design themselves you know.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
14. "Okay....explain it away. Go ahead."
Easily. Life is meaningless, and existence is absurd.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Well, for U. S. citizens it is.
Obviously.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
18. i don't think it can be justified.
rec'ed
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
20. Three wars at one time while domestic needs are cut is irresponsible.
If Libyans are being slaughtered, that's a good moral reason for military assistance, preferably a unit of commandos that could take Ghadafi by force & ship him off to a predetermined country to prison. (I just don't trust our government's word anymore.)

But end military operations in Iraq & Afghanistan in order to help settle Libya's pressing situation. We've been told over & over how we can't afford to help our own citizens!

The fact that our government can so freely send troops to a third combat situation tells me we're being lied to about the budget crisis or they're just plain irresponsible.

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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
22. We always have money for wars n/t
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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
26. Just saw this from a Libyan on Twitter
Tripolitanian

I can't believe people are complaining about the cost of this military operation - since when was there a price tag on human life?



All of your points are valid. I also think that Tripolitanian's point is valid.

More Libyan tweets.

Sal7a

@ChangeInLibya Its not like these countries havent been benefiting frm our money for yrs now! Use his bloody frozen assets 2 cover ur costs!

Albseeninunxtwk

@ChangeInLibya The price has been paid by individuals like Mohammed Nabbous and all who have died and will die for freedom #libya

wheelertweets

@ChangeInLibya @Tripolitanian The #Libyan people have paid an eternity's worth, a universe worth, with their blood & suffering. Case closed.
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. How do we choose Libyans over all the other oppressed people in the world? nt
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Since we can't do everything for all people we shouldn't do anything for anybody?
Lame logic.
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Didn't answer my question. How do we choose? nt
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. We look at each case and make choices on the merits of that case...
Based on a variety of national, international, and global security concerns. There.
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. So, what makes this guy so special?
And are you gonna enlist?
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. The UN Security Council, the Arab League, and the President of the US have made an effective case.
Edited on Sat Mar-19-11 10:17 PM by jefferson_dem
Check it out.

Your last comment reveals that you are not interested in having an honest discussion about the topic. Are you going to help all these oppressed people in the world that you claim to be so concerned about?

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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
28. Budgets are all about priorities.
This mission, as it currently stands, is a worthy investment. Simple.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Investment? And what investment is that? I'd rather invest in the USA citizens. n/t
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. Humanity.
And Security.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. I see. U.S. citizens don't fit in that "humanity" category. Interesting.
:eyes:
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Your words. May be your position.
Not mine.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. There's no way we can invest in the American people if we
spend all our money saving everyone else around the world. And we're suppose to be BROKE, remember? They always find the money for the wars and NEVER for what the "humanity" in the USA needs. How exactly do you justify that? It's flat-out wrong.
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
32. I'm just gonna go out on a limb and say it: we are Hitler.
Edited on Sat Mar-19-11 10:25 PM by Initech
We are the evil empire.

We continue to destroy the middle class. Hitler did that.

We bust unions. Hitler did that.

We invade third world countries for profit. Hitler did that.

We oppress women, minorities and homosexuals. Hitler did that.

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silver10 Donating Member (492 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #32
46. +1
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #32
47. So sad. n/t
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
33. There is NO justification for this.
This is nothing more then payback to the military industrial complex.

This is what Eisenhower warned us against.

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist."

They OWN the US government, Republicans , Democrats and Obama .
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-11 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
43. K&R
There is never enough money to run the country, but there is always PLENTY of money for more and more wars.
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
49. People in this country are dying from lack of healthcare, housing, and heating. Tax the hoarding
rich first, then we can revisit helping others being screwed over by their rich overlords in other countries.
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Viking12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
50. K&R
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
52. k&r
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