Why the passion over Libya

absent the same passion in Bahrain and Yemen?

Just wondering since there is an armed rebel force engaged in Libya.

As far as a no fy zone, I don't generally have a problem with it as long as a few years in the future, it doesn't turn into invasionary forces and disaster capitalism.

Different questions come from Libya though that I recognize. Does the government there have a right to put down an armed rebellion?

Discuss as I am not advocating for anything in particular, I've just been preoccupied with other matters the last few days.

Trying to equate what's happening in Libya with Bahrain (which is more religiously based) and Yemen (which has been at war with itself almost non-stop since the 60s) other than the timing is a stretch. Each country has its own history of strife that events through the region appear to have incited but that each case is based on its own history and personalities.

Libya, and Gadaffi in specific, has long been a thorn in the side of his neighbors...especially in Sub-Saharan Africa. He's funded and armed many of the rebels in civil wars from Liberia to Darfur to Zimbabwe...and is using mercenaries to replace the troops who deserted in the early days of this rebellion. This is a civil war...not a revolution or civil insurection. This is also an externalized war as Gadaffi has brought in his own foreigners to force his rule on the country. So some will consider this leveling the playing field while the pro and anti-Gadaffi forces duke it out.

I am in a wait and see posture at this point. If there's to be boots on the ground I don't see the U.S. taking a lead...nor do I honestly think that Gadaffi could stand up to a well coorinated attack by a British-French led force. The U.S. role here is in "support"...and that most agree that seeing Gadaffi gone is not such a bad thing. In a strange way the Marine Hymn came to mind the other day..."to the shores of Tripoli"...and that was written over 200 years ago. Some things never change...

But I also know the history of no fly zones, sanctions, and invasions. What's the future under another US president hold for us? Also, I keep hearing about civilians, that is why I mentioned the other countries where there aren't rebel forces.

Remember, the original no-fly zone over Kurdistan and the Shiite areas of Iraq did prevent a worse humanitarian disaster and the wrath of Saddam Hussein. It also kept him in check but it didn't create the hoped for atmosphere to internally overthrow him. That's a lesson that's need to be remembered here (but I doubt it). Thus the no-fly zone is beneficial as it may have prevented a major slaughter in Benghazi and other rebel areas but it will not be the sole agent to topple Gadaffi...that will have to be done on the ground and I surely hope there's not a single U.S. soldier who is involved...let our allies take the lead.

In Libya we had no diplomatic options...not like we did in Egypt that I feel was instrumental in forcing Mubarak into retirement. I also think there's diplomacy at work regarding Bahrain which is more of a Sunni-Shiite clash than of young vs. old. And Yemen is yet another mess...more like Somalia than any other country. Those who want to try mix these different situations do so in a game of false equivelency.

Cheers...

It's just I no longer buy excuses about civilians. US geopolitical policy does not have as its purpose, the conditions of human populations in other countries. If so, we would have intervened in Darfur, Rwanda, and numerous other places.

13 days later, with Gaddafi kicking their butts, there 110 missile strikes and who knows what else.

It won't be years before there is a ground invasion. More like days.

There is a saying in that part of the world that goes:

"Once the camel's nose has entered the tent his ass is soon to follow."

http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/world/news/63025/Britain_France_US_military_advisors_dispatched_to_Libya



In other words ground troops deployed on 2/23.

First of all, at least for now, protesters elsewhere still can, generally, survive until momentum builds and solutions are found. Libyans will not survive without intervention and the status quo will remain for another generation.

Second, if the Libyan revolution is killed -and remember just a few weeks ago when every city and most towns had large popular mass demonstrations demanding a restoration of democracy- the other Arab uprisings are toast, including possibly Tunisia and Egypt. Some might be anyway, but at least it's a chance.

The Libyan revolution also meets the "Responsibility to Act" threshold, and even though that standard hasn't and sometimes couldn't be applied, that's no excuse for not applying it now.

Finally, a from longer term view, there are a whole host of big, big questions, multi-generational ones, that the international community is slowly evolving answers for, like the last one you asked. Every word in your sentence contains problems of definition, translation, refinement, legal definition and translation, plus considerations for consequences (and the unexpected ones), history -it ends up being a tedious mess that is not only boring for most, but prone to the machinations of people in power, because they're all thinking "What if that standard was applied to me?".

Small wonder it's inconsistent. So we do the best we can.

And from a longer perspective still, we're all only a few gene flips away from flinging poo at our zookeepers. It's a wonder actually that anything good happens at all.

Especially where certain "interests" are concerned. And of course there is the problem of national sovereignty. And of course, there is the problems of declarations of war. Nations decide to engage others now without channels of formality.

not only on our inexperience, but on the concentrations of power that help perpetuate it and use each opportunity for their own narrow ends. That applies to concentrations in all -sectors, political, economic, social. In fact, it's hard to think of any concentration of political and economic power that has not turned out to be both inconsistent and harmful, whether it's the power held by the Gadaffi Family Evil Regime or the BFEE or the Saudi Family Evil Monarchy, and I'll fight each as I can and let the inconsistency chip fall where it will.

Then in my spare time I'll work on the long view.

I have been pulling articles this morning: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x696576

"I stand with Neda!!!!"

Yeah, right.

The internet is the best lemming generator ever made.

a scrimmage now.