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People complained about Clinton not getting involved in the Rwanda genocide soon enough

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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 08:27 AM
Original message
People complained about Clinton not getting involved in the Rwanda genocide soon enough
Not they are bashing Obama for getting involved in the Libyan crisis.

I swear some folks just can't be consistent.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. R2P was created because of Rwanda, too. Would've helped Burma in 2007 if not for Russia and China.
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noise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
2. The difference is the "War on Terror"
People are tired of being manipulated by corrupt politicians.
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silver10 Donating Member (492 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
3. they are probably different people
not the same people. The same people who were for the U.S. getting involved in Rwanda are probably the same people that support this bombing of Libya.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. So you don't think the UN should've got involved in Rwanda?
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
4. Anyone who thinks they are the same is not paying attention
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. So you don't think the UN should've got involved in Rwanda?
Edited on Sun Mar-20-11 08:34 AM by joshcryer
edit: rephrase
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. They are not the same
Not even close.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. You didn't answer my question. Ignore Libya. Libya didn't happen.
All is flowery and peaceful in Libya. Should the UN have acted under R2P grounds in Rwanda?
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Yes Rwanda. No Libya.
There, I've answered your question.
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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. If I had the time, I'd do a search on it.
I bet there are a number of folks now bitching about Libya that also condemned Clinton for not acting in Rwanda. Some folks just like to complain.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Rwanda was 6 years before DU existed. :P
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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. But people have been condemning Clinton over his inaction for years afterwards
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #13
24. The thing about Rwanda is that the UN was notified about it before it happened.
Kinda like how Benghazi notified the UN before it was about to be razed. I think that's their primary similarity.

Rwanda: "UH, SHIT IS ABOUT TO GET REAL!"

Libya (Benghazi): "ERM, OUR CITY IS ABOUT TO BE RAZED LIKE 3 OTHER CITIES WERE RAZED."

Rwanda we didn't act. We didn't give a shit.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. One million (maybe more) killed and 500,000 women raped in Rwanda
How many have died in Libya? How many women have been raped? As soon as the numbers are close, you can say some folks just like to complain. :eyes:
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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. Oh, so it's all about reaching a certain threshold of deaths.
What's the threshold again? 1 million? 500,000? 100,000?
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. So do you believe we are the world's policeman?
Where next? North Korea isn't looking good. Very evil dictator. Then there's Iran. He's evil and crazy too.

Anything to keep that military industrial complex going! Woohoo!
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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. You didn't answer the question. How many deaths are allowed before intervention?
Why even have a UN force? Maybe we should just disband the whole UN peacekeeping effort.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. LOL how is peacekeeping killing people?
I don't support war. Period. Peacekeeping is not war. It's not launching missiles. It's not sending in troops.

Yes we should have intervened in Rwanda. With the UN. But this is not even close to the same as Rwanda. But then, how much oil is in Rwanda? :)
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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. "I don't support war. Period. Peacekeeping is not war" "Yes we should have intervened in Rwanda"
Thanks for proving my point about people being inconsistent.

BTW, Liyban action is approved by the UN.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Rwanda would've almost certainly required an armed conflict, too.
They had some kind of insane bloodlust that they had been planning to inact for a year or so. It would've been shooting people with knives, by and large.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. Intervention in Rwanda wouldn't have been peacekeeping
It's not that hard to understand.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. Did you mean "would have been peacekeeping"?
I'm sorry but it would've necessitated a lot of violence, no matter what way you look at it.
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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. But you support it.
It's not hard to see your inconsistent argument. Rwanda good. Libya bad.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. Rwanda genocide. Libya not.
Now please show me where that is inconsistent.
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
11. dont forget, Kosovo Was All About The Oil!! Or Something!!!11!!
America IS teh EVEL Leave Ghadaffiii ALoooone!!!
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
14. That's because one was a genocide and the other a rebellion.
There is nothing strategic as it concerns multinational corporate interests in Rwanda. Now who is consistent and who is not?
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. The Rwandan Civil War predated the genocide.
You could have called the Interahamwe the "rebels" in this situation (and if I recall correctly some people did). Your position is untenable.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #20
28. Not completely. The Rwandan civil war involved Uganda arming Tutsi refugees
Edited on Sun Mar-20-11 09:24 AM by mmonk
that then invaded northern Rwanda. Then there was a ceasefire. Then the plane was shot down. The people slaughtered in what subsued later were not a military force. The UN was in place.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. There was no way of knowing that it wasn't a rebellion except for the UN pleas.
Edited on Sun Mar-20-11 09:25 AM by joshcryer
Likewise there is no way of knowing if Benghazi was going to be razed by Gaddafi's forces for certain because those forces were obliterated last night because of the UN.

All indications were that there was fighting going on in Rwanda.

All indications were that there was a push on a city in Libya.

Both cases involved people asking the UN to intervene.
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alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
19. I was outraged when we did nothing in Rwanda.
Here's a clip from the movie that pretty much cuts to the bone of why we didn't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKjprq67kYI
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. That covers the entire policy on Africa in general.
:puke:

Breaks my heart.
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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
23. Excuse me but this AINT GENOCIDE. Not yet anyway.
If you don't want to get fired upon by the Quadaffi's forces, then all you have to do is simply leave the rebel army. I have not heard that he is firing upon civilians at this stage. Rebels said goodbye to being a civilian when they took part in this civil war.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. That is bullshit. The Rwandan genocide was easily interpreted as a rebellion.
If Gaddafi razed Benghazi as he threatened to do how many would have died? The French fighter jets stopped it. We'll never know. It's easy to say "you can save lives" after many have died. But if none die because you acted? You can always say "he wasn't going to kill anyone." It's a catch-22.
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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-11 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #26
34. Mass killing of unarmed innocents, Rwanda was. Not to that yet in Libya. nt
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