Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Juan Cole: Top 10 Ways Libya 2011 is not Iraq 2003

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU
 
Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 01:29 AM
Original message
Juan Cole: Top 10 Ways Libya 2011 is not Iraq 2003
http://www.juancole.com/2011/03/top-ten-ways-that-libya-2011-is-not-iraq-2003.html

1. The action in Libya was authorized by the United Nations Security Council. That in Iraq was not. By the UN Charter, military action after 1945 should either come as self-defense or with UNSC authorization. Most countries in the world are signatories to the charter and bound by its provisions.

2. The Libyan people had risen up and thrown off the Qaddafi regime, with some 80-90 percent of the country having gone out of his hands before he started having tank commanders fire shells into peaceful crowds. It was this vast majority of the Libyan people that demanded the UN no-fly zone. In 2002-3 there was no similar popular movement against Saddam Hussein.

3. There was an ongoing massacre of civilians, and the threat of more such massacres in Benghazi, by the Qaddafi regime, which precipitated the UNSC resolution. Although the Saddam Hussein regime had massacred people in the 1980s and early 1990s, nothing was going on in 2002-2003 that would have required international intervention.


Seven more at the link.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
1. It's a bad sign when there is a need for lists like this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Military force is never ever pretty
Edited on Tue Mar-22-11 03:02 AM by FrenchieCat
and never what one should want.
But a list like this is reality....
because not everything is always the same,
even if on its face, people want to think so.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 06:15 AM
Response to Original message
3. It is a truthful list
and therefore relevant.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 06:18 AM
Response to Original message
4. Is anyone saying it is?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 06:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Ummm, yes. Lots of people. Just peruse the threads in GD.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. A teabagger friend of mine called me out for opposing Iraq &
assumed I supported this war because Obama's such a "liburl".

Not that I do support it entirely, but I wish I had this list the other day. I did make the point that in Iraq prior to '03 we had Saddam peacefully contained through a no-fly zone, which is what we're establishing in Libya. What I didn't know was that establishing a no-fly zone isn't necessarily so peaceful.

I have a major problem with this not getting authorization from Congress first.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. yes, many people
quite a few right here on DU.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
6. Does he mention the wackos who are revolting because they thing Qaddafi is Jewish? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
8. Don't waste your breath... DU wants simplified one-liners that justify their selfishness.
After all, screaming "it's all about oil" justifies the fact that you're engaging in the ugliest, nastiest forms of nationalism of "our own people first", meaning we should let Libyans die because helping them COSTS too much --which is a bullshit argument in the first place; we have enough money in the US, it's just distributed the wrong way.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
9. 1. It's Not George Bush. 2. It's Not George Bush. 3. It's Not George Bush
etc ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
riverwalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
10. I wonder if the knee jerk opposition to Libya
comes from those liberals who supported the Iraq war (and there were MANY) as a kind of misplaced redemption?
Those I know who violently and totally opposed the Iraq war then, understand the Libya situation now, and support it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
11. 4. It's unconstitutional
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. No, it's not.
The President is complying with all United States law, including the Constitution. Hate Obama on someone else's dime and for some other reason.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
13. this is an EXCELLENT article- thank you for taking
the time to post it.

I hope others will click the link and really consider what is said.

Juan Cole has really laid out the facts- in an effictive way.

K&R

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
revolutionnow45 Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
15. K&R
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 30th 2024, 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC