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I thought Japan was the home of robots. Why haven't any been used at the

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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 02:19 PM
Original message
I thought Japan was the home of robots. Why haven't any been used at the
power plant? I'm not talking about the humanoid version:



but rather the kind bomb squads use:



What about a Mars Rover?

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FSogol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. Because robots and their cpus don't like extreme heat and radiation any better than humans?
:shrug:
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Wrong. Robots were successfully used during the Chernobyl
Edited on Tue Mar-22-11 02:33 PM by pnwmom
and Three Mile Island disasters, and they've finally moved a robot to the site from a different nuclear installation.

I read somewhere that the real reason was "budget constraints" and "denial." Meaning, they didn't want to spend the money for something they thought they wouldn't need.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
2. Because their robots now lay in pieces?
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. I read that they didn't have them due to "budget constraints."
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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. huh?
Am not sure this is even a reasonable inquiry considering the chaos, the damage, the lack of just about everything available there right now.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. It's a completely reasonable question. We used them at Three Mile Island
and the Russians used them at Chernobyl.

Why didn't the Japanese have them? "Budget constraints and denial." In other words, the power company didn't want to invest the money and thought they weren't needed.
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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. Three Mile and Chernobyl did not suffer a huge earthquake or tsunami
and continuing large earthquakes. Seems like comparing apples to oranges IMO.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. Mostly those things have a umbilical cord that is only a few feet
long.
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jdlh8894 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
5. They can't climb over rubble or walk on water? GFL!
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. They can't be killed by radiation and they've been successfully used
in previous nuclear disasters. But the Japanese power company decided to save some money and not invest in them.
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StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
22. WRONG! while they DO have umbilical cords, here they are
Edited on Tue Mar-22-11 08:32 PM by StarsInHerHair
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2bExqhhWRI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-AGWq0k_Mo check for "Big Dog" on youtube for more


oooh, now it's without an umbilical, check the side links for a climbing bot & a water-skimmer/walking bot
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
8. Because they have people.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
11. Most existing robotic devices have very specific functions.
They can't just be diverted to other uses. I don't think a trumpet-playing robot would be very useful at Fukushima. Nor could a robot designed to handle bombs on street corners. There are no general robots that can do whatever you want them to do. Robots are very specific in their design, and the design of each one takes a long time. Sorry.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. "Robots are commonplace in the nuclear industry."
Edited on Tue Mar-22-11 02:40 PM by pnwmom
"While robots are commonplace in the nuclear power industry, with EU engineers building one that can climb walls through radioactive fields, the electric power company running Japan’s Fukushima Dai-ichi plant has not deployed any for the nuclear emergency."

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/technology/Japan+robot+power+everywhere+except+nuclear+plant/4456313/story.html
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. They probably don't have any suitable for the current needs.
Building one now won't work. If they didn't have them before, they don't have them. Just as I said. Robots are built for specific functions. Should they have built some? Probably. If they had, they could use them. If they didn't, they don't have them.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. The point is that Japan should have had them at all their facilities,
but the power companies apparently were trying to save money.

That's a lesson we should be learning from now. It's time to look at all our nuclear facilities with an eye to making them safer. And robots are one way to reduce human exposure to radiation risks in this sort of emergency.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. No, actually, the lesson we should be learning is that
nuclear power generation is not safe. It has never been safe, nor can it be built to be safe. That is the lesson. No number of robots would have prevented what happened at Fukushima. An earthquake and tsunami saw to that. Do you know of an earthquake prevention robot? I sure don't. The answer is to shut down all currently operating nuclear power plants and remove their fuel rods. Then, those rods need to be stored in a way that will prevent them from contaminating the planet further. That's the lesson that needs to be learned, and is the lesson I've been trying to put forward since 1959, when a small nuclear plant had a meltdown just a few miles from my boyhood home. See my journal for the story.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
12. Why? The power company was too cheap.
http://www.vancouversun.com/business/technology/Japan+robot+power+everywhere+except+nuclear+plant/4456313/story.html

While robots are commonplace in the nuclear power industry, with EU engineers building one that can climb walls through radioactive fields, the electric power company running Japan’s Fukushima Dai-ichi plant has not deployed any for the nuclear emergency.

Instead, its skeleton team has been given the unenviable and perhaps deadly task of cooling reactors and spent nuclear fuel on their own, only taking breaks to avoid over-exposure.

SNIP

Kim, a deputy director in nuclear technology for the Korea Atomic Energy Research Institute, said budget constraints and denial have kept emergency robots out of many plants in his country and around the world.

"Nuclear plant operators don’t liked to think about serious situations that are beyond human control," he said by telephone.

_______________________________

I did read somewhere that a couple days ago they FINALLY brought one in from another nuclear facility. But they should have these in place at EVERY nuclear facility.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 02:39 PM
Original message
They could have flown one in from anywhere in the world in about 12 hours!
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nykym Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
13. Article on the ups & downs of using
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Even if they only used them for taking pictures and monitoring
Edited on Tue Mar-22-11 02:45 PM by pnwmom
that would have still provided useful information and saved some human exposure.

There's no reason except cost that kept them from having robotic systems in place to the same extent they're used elsewhere.

(The one robot that is mentioned in the article was shipped there several days after the earthquake from a different nuclear installation in Japan.)
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
15. Radiation damages their positronic brains. n/t
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Hatchling Donating Member (968 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
21. Robots Mustering for Recovery in Japan
http://robots.net/article/3125.html

A radiation monitoring robot, dubbed Monirobo ("monitor" + "robot") (source), developed by Japan's Nuclear Safety Technology Center (NUSTEC), has been deployed to the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station. While possibly the only robot being brought into play which had been specifically designed for use in a nuclear accident, it's far from the only robot to be deployed, or at least offerred for deployment during the recovery phase of the current disaster in Japan.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/industrial-robots/irobot-sending-packbots-and-warriors-to-fukushima

The Special Ops group of Japan's Self Defense Forces has asked iRobot for some robotic assistance with the situation at the Fukushima Dai-1 nuclear plant, where several reactors are dangerously unstable after a 9.0-magnitude earthquake followed by a tsunami led to failures of their cooling systems last week.

Four robots, including iRobot's Packbot 510 and Warrior 710, left Bedford, Mass., this morning on their way to Japan, along with a team of iRobot employees to provide support, an iRobot spokesperson told me.
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