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Safetykitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 08:24 PM
Original message
"A betrayal of who we are"...
Really? Does he really want to go there? Who we are? Are we the musclebound bad dictator bouncer that is used only when that dictator is perched on a shitload of oil? Is that who we really are? Maybe we are the cop o' the world to be used in case of oil disruption to Europe. The one that acts in record time to come to the aid of a Libya, the one that skips the 15 items or less lane and gets the war on check out aisle because thars OIL there! Yes indeedy, we are that gang.

Or maybe, just maybe we are the economic basket case country that is in hock over our kids heads, the can't get HC for it's own ground to a frazzle populace, the betrayal to our own people who we are that can't jail a single banker, stop a single corporation from fucking people over, union busting, teacher hating kind.

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Ramulux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm pretty sure Obama has..
a very twisted sense of national identity.
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Safetykitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. That's an understatement.
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
28. How Limbaugh-esque of you.
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Ramulux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. Nice
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. i didn't hear him mention oil.
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Safetykitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. So he has to say it? Is that how it works?
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Safetykitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Dupe
Edited on Mon Mar-28-11 08:33 PM by Safetykitten
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. "national interest" is the Obama preferred phrasing. n/t
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
6. The speech made me nauseous. Couldn't stop thinking about the Iraqis
the Afghans, the Yemenis and the Pakistanis. In 2010, we slaughtered over 1800 Pakistanis. How can someone even mention the word human rights when they're sitting on 4 wars?
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Safetykitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. It was truly sickening.
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. More like 5
Iran is a low intensity conflict.
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. And here's the worst joke of all...
They're not "wars," they're "police actions."
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sad sally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
23. swaggers and daggers
salute the flag, support the troops, God Bless America.
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Tx4obama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
10. It might help if everyone were to read up on what has gone on and what is going on in Libya
Edited on Mon Mar-28-11 08:42 PM by Tx4obama
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Safetykitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Maybe you should read up on what's happenin' here.
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Tx4obama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. What is happening here is NOTHING compared to what is going on over there.

Comparing what is going on in Libya by the hands of Gaddafi to what is going on here in the USA is RIDICULOUS!

GRAPHIC PHOTOS - WARNING - GRAPHIC PHOTOS - WARNING - GRAPHIC PHOTOS

WARNING WARNING WARNING - Very graphic - WARNING WARNING WARNING

http://yfrog.com/h4oacietj

http://yfrog.com/h7ucplxj

http://yfrog.com/gzqlrpj

And here's a link to a video of Libyan Soldiers Loyal to Citizens Burnt by Gaddafi
they refused orders to attack citizens
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x556426


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Safetykitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Fun horror compare time. Oh, that's right...none here. Just other oil places.
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Ramulux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Why is that our responsibility?
I want you to tell me why those atrocities have anything to do with us. You realize we live in America right? You realize Libya poses no threat or risk to our safety, right?

So why is it suddenly our responsibility to save those people, but not people who are massacred in other parts of the world. Why is Libya special and why is the suffering of their people more important than the suffering of people in other countries?
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Tx4obama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. So, you would have been against going in to stop Hitler?
since it had nothing to do with the safety of The USA?

Regarding why we went into Libya is because the Libyan people requested the UN to impose the No Fly Zone. And also the U.S. Senate passed a resolution on March 1st asking the UN to impose a NFZ. Other countries have not petitioned the UN for a NFZ.

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Safetykitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. The Jean-Claude Van Damme effect.
"A man uses laser-sighted submachine guns in the year 1863 to steal gold bullion from Confederate soldiers. In the next scene, set in 1994, top U.S. government officials create the Time Enforcement Commission (TEC) to combat misuse of the new discovery of time travel. Senator Aaron McComb (Silver) volunteers to oversee the commission. Shortly afterward, police officer Max Walker (Van Damme) is offered a job as a TEC agent, and shortly after the job offer, he is attacked by intruders at his suburban home. During the attack, his wife Melissa (Sara) is killed in an explosion."
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Ramulux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. Absurd
Edited on Mon Mar-28-11 09:37 PM by Ramulux
I know your not comparing our actions in Libya to our involvement in WW2, so I'm not gonna bother responding to that, especially since I seem to remember this place called Pearl Harbor where we might have been attacked by the Japanese. So, WW2 did have something to do with Americas security, just in case you forgot.

I also didn't ask you about the legality, I asked why you think the suffering of the Libyan people is more important than the suffering of people in any other country run by an evil dictator. Why is Libya special and more deserving of military assistance than any other country?
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. It's not.
But we had a chance here to help the suffering of people who want representative government, and we did. What are you suggesting--that out of respect for people suffering in Darfur, or the Congo, or in the Middle East that we should just ignore the suffering of people in Libya?

Obama said it himself: "It is true that America cannot use our military wherever repression occurs. And given the costs and risks of intervention, we must always measure our interests against the need for action. But that cannot be an argument for never acting on behalf of what’s right."
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Ramulux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. I'm saying
that when we choose to invade Libya because of the suffering of the Libyan people it sends a message to people in other oppressed nations that their suffering isn't important enough to warrant military action.

We cannot use our military wherever repression occurs, but somehow its fine for us to pick and choose who is more deserving and who isn't. America needs to stop pretending that we are the ultimate authority when it comes to utilitarian judgments, especially considering our record when it comes to using our military to "help" oppressed people.

Why is Libya more deserving of military aid than Bahrain? Why does Libya get a full scale invasion and Bahrain gets nothing? For us to say, whats going on in Libya is so terrible we have to intervene, while the same thing is happening in Bahrain and we choose to do nothing, shows that our decisions are not being made because we care so much for oppressed people but because of politics.

I am not saying lets not help anyone, I am all for actual humanitarian aid to all these oppressed countries, what I am not for is picking and choosing which ones to invade and which ones to just leave out to dry.
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. Because we are international players and one of the most powerful nations on earth.
Isolationism lost its charm after the second World War.
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Safetykitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. Ok, let's play the isolationist game!
Edited on Mon Mar-28-11 11:53 PM by Safetykitten
So what country that runs out of money, is bankrupt and owes everyone will any country take seriously? Oh, that's easy. It will be us very soon.

So when we hit our credit limit with China, and the FED has monetized the debt all it can, we will be without choice, isolationist. The reason? The people who have the money, make the rules, not nations that will be economic basket cases with a populace demoralized by an inequality of income that is insane.

So that isolationist memo, and how we don't want to be that? We are almost that now. We keep gettin our war on, we will be shortly.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. Excuse me? What is happening here is NOTHING compared to Libya? I beg to differ!
DEBT:

As of February 28, 2011, the Total Public Debt Outstanding of the United States of America was $14.19 trillion and was 96.8% of calendar year 2010's annual gross domestic product (GDP) of $14.66 trillion. Using 2010 figures, the total debt (96.3% of GDP) ranked 12th highest against other nations.<snip>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

DEFICIT:

WASHINGTON — A surge in oil prices helped push imports up at the fastest pace in 18 years in January, giving the country the largest trade deficit in six months.

The Commerce Department said Thursday the January deficit increased 15.1 percent to $46.3 billion. <snip>

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42005784/ns/business-eye_on_the_economy/

UNEMPLOYMENT:

The number of unemployed persons (13.7 million) and the unemployment rate (8.9
percent) changed little in February. The labor force was about unchanged over
the month.<snip>

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

HOMELESSNESS:

In a recent approximation USA Today estimated 1.6 million people unduplicated persons used transitional housing or emergency shelters. Of these people, approximately 1/3 are members of households with children, a nine percent increase since 2007. Another approximation is from a study done by the National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty which states that approximately 3.5 million people, 1.35 million of them children, are likely to experience homelessness in a given year (National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty, 2007).<snip>

http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/How_Many.html

INFRASTRUCTURE:

<snip>
“How bad is our nation’s infrastructure deficit? A recent report card from the American Society of Civil Engineers estimated that it will cost $2.2 trillion over a five-year period to raise the U.S. infrastructure grade from poor to acceptable. Measure this against the roughly $100 billion from the 2009 “stimulus” legislation that had in fact gone toward infrastructure construction projects as of last fall. Deficit-ridden cities find putting off preventive maintenance and replacing obsolete equipment as tempting ways to cut budgets. Henry Petroski, professor of civil engineering and history at Duke University, warns: “Potholes know no politics….Bridges will corrode and collapse. Pipes will crack and burst. The physical foundations of our civilization will crumble under the weight of our complaints about it and our neglect of it. It will happen so fast it will be impossible to keep up with its repair.”

“The dilemma posed by infrastructure spending was seen in microcosm last fall when New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie stopped work on a new commuter-train tunnel that would run under the Hudson River into Manhattan. A federally-assisted project that was supposed to cost $8.7 billion faced a revised cost of $11 billion to $14 billion. “I can’t put taxpayers on a never-ending hook,” Christie said. The fact that the nation can’t even afford to build a railroad tunnel under a river highlighted the failure of government to bring the nation’s infrastructure up to 21st century standards. This includes America’s out-of-sight network of water systems, some of them built by our great-grandparents and now threatening public health and safety.

“Meantime, many nations around the world look to the future by developing critical infrastructure. China plans to spend $295 billion in the next decade to build a high-speed rail network, totaling 10,000 miles, that will connect its major cities. A World Bank report last July praised the project, saying it could speed passenger traffic, free up overloaded freight routes and reduce dependence on autos. One route, between Shanghai and Beijing, could cut travel time from 10 hours to four at speeds up to 302 mph. And China will spend $10 billion to connect the inland cities of Chengdu and Xi’an with a 320-mile railroad that will cut travel time to two hours from the current 13. Contrast this with the decision by the newly elected governors of Wisconsin and Ohio to forgo $1.2 billion in stimulus money for passenger-rail projects in their states. And a high-speed rail project in California that would connect Los Angeles and San Francisco has been derided by critics as “a train to nowhere” because the first leg would connect L.A. with the inland city of Bakersfield.

“While the United States is in retreat from big public works projects, on the grounds of can’t-afford-it, other nations with equally bad debt problems have taken a different course. Britain’s prime minister, David Cameron, cut dozens of social and military programs when he took office last fall. But he also unveiled a National Infrastructure Plan, a blueprint for spending $316 billion of public and private money over five years in his country’s railways, power stations, roads, internet access and scientific research. “The government is keen to point out,” said The Economist (Oct. 30, 2010), “that unlike many of its predecessors it has avoided the temptation to slash capital spending during a downturn, a habit that helps explain the current ropy state of the national infrastructure.”<snip>

http://kgab.com/infrastructure-decay-in-the-united-states-cost-2-2-trillion/

COST of LIVING:

U.S. cost of living hits record, passes pre-crisis high
By John Melloy, CNBC

One would think that after the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, Americans could at least catch a break for a while with deflationary forces keeping the cost of living relatively low. That's not the case.

A special index created by the Labor Department to measure the actual cost of living for Americans hit a record high in February, according to data released Thursday, surpassing the old high in July 2008. The Chained consumer price index, released along with the more widely-watched CPI, increased 0.5% to 127.4, from 126.8 in January. In July 2008, just as the housing crisis was tightening its grip, the Chained consumer price index hit its previous record of 126.9.

"The Federal Reserve continues to focus on the rate of change in inflation," said Peter Bookvar, equity strategist at Miller Tabak. "Sure, it's moving at a slower pace, but the absolute cost of living is now back at a record high in a country that has seven million less jobs."

The regular CPI, which has already been at a record for a while, increased 0.5%, the fastest pace in 1-1/2 years. However, the Fed's preferred measure, CPI excluding food and energy, increased by just 0.2%. <snip>

U.S. CITIZENS WHO HAVE NO HEALTH CARE INSURANCE:

Number of uninsured Americans rises to 50.7 million

By Richard Wolf, USA TODAY

A record rise in the number of people without health insurance across the nation is fueling renewed debate over a health care law that could to work better at boosting coverage than controlling costs.

More than 50 million people were uninsured last year, almost one in six U.S. residents, the Census Bureau reported Thursday. The percentage with private insurance was the lowest since the government began keeping data in 1987.

The reasons for the rise to 50.7 million, or 16.7%, from 46.3 million uninsured, or 15.4%, were many: workers losing their jobs in the recession, companies dropping employee health insurance benefits, families going without coverage to cut costs. Driving much of the increase, however, was the rising cost of medical care; a Kaiser Family Foundation report shows workers now pay 47% more than they did in 2005 for family health coverage, while employers pay 20% more.

SENIORS: Despite recession, they see income gains

Although the health care law signed by President Obama in March is designed to insure an additional 32 million people in public and private programs, it doesn't fully kick in until 2014. For the next few years, experts say, the problem could get worse. The average cost to insure a family of four is already about $14,000.<snip>

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-09-17-uninsured17_ST_N.htm


TEACHER SALARIES IN THE UNITED STATES:

Every few years the American Federation of Teachers releases a Teacher Salary Trends report about teacher salaries across the United States. This information helps teachers decide where to teach and how much they should earn. The latest report indicated that the average teacher salary was $47,602. The Federation indicated that unfortunately, teachers are struggling to find housing in their areas that they can afford on their salaries. As more teachers pursue additional education after receiving their bachelor’s degree, their student loan debt increases dramatically. New teachers may not start at an average teacher salary and could therefore struggle even more than veteran teachers, who may have higher salaries.<snip>

http://www.employmentspot.com/employment-articles/teacher-salaries-by-state/

CONDITION of U.S. PUBLIC SCHOOLS:

Schools

Spending on the nation’s schools grew from $17 billion in 1998 to a peak of $29 billion in 2004. However, by 2007 spending fell to $20.28 billion. No comprehensive, authoritative nationwide data on the condition of America’s school buildings has been collected in a decade. The National Education Association’s best estimate to bring the nation’s schools into good repair is $322 billion.<snip>

http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/fact-sheet/schools

UNION BUSTING BECAUSE THE STATES ARE BROKE:

Governors who are less prone to macho posturing than Walker are pleading poverty – "we're broke!" they say. And indeed, they are.<snip>

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/feb/18/us-unions-wisconsin1

UNITED STATE OF AMERICA LETS U.S. CITIZENS GO HUNGRY:

Record numbers go hungry in the US

Government report shows 50m people unable to put food on the table at some point last year.<snip>

<snip>
The number of children living in households where there were shortages of food at times rose by nearly one-third to 17 million. The report says that most parents who did not get enough to eat ensured their offspring received sufficient food but that more than 1 million children still suffered outright hunger.

The worst affected states are in the south with Mississippi having the largest proportion of its population enduring shortages of food followed by Texas and Arkansas. More than half of those affected are minorities, principally black people and Hispanics.<snip>

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/17/millions-hungry-households-us-report

COST OF IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN WARS:
I guess it all depends on what your priorities are. MINE are with the citizens of MY country!



Jan 14 (Reuters) - The cost to U.S. taxpayers of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2001 has topped $1 trillion, and President Barack Obama is expected to request another $33 billion to fund more troops this year.

Over two-thirds of the money has been spent on the conflict in Iraq since 2003. This year is the first in which more funds are being spent in Afghanistan than Iraq, as the pace of U.S. military operations slows in Iraq and quickens in Afghanistan.

HOW MUCH HAS BEEN SPENT ALREADY?

Congress has approved $1.05 trillion dollars for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to the National Priorities Project, a nonpartisan budget research group that has a continuously running war cost counter on its website.

The tally topped $1 trillion last month, when U.S. lawmakers approved the fiscal 2010 defense spending bill that included $128 billion to be spent on the two conflicts through Sept. 30. The trillion-dollar total includes war-related costs incurred by the State Department, like embassy security.<snip>

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/01/14/afghanistan-iraq-usa-costs-idUSN1415708320100114



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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. The OP was more about ignoring our own country and spending more on another war
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
15. ............
:popcorn:
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
18. THANK YOU!
That's almost exactly what I thought!

"...who we are..."?

The ones who make the weapons that kill the civilians.

The ones who arm the dictators who attack their citizens.

The ones who stampede in, guns a-blazing and bombs a-dropping whenever it threatens "national interests".
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
21. Whew.
What exactly do you want?
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Poboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
24. Dave Chappelle - Black Bush
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
26. not a lot of oil in Libya...
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Distant Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #26
34. Oh Really?? NOT. Gaddafi has not exploited it but Libya has largest reserves on Continent
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Xicano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
27. K&R
Thank you Safetykitten
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
31. "Spot the differences"
*pukey icon*

I am so sad that we are being led down this miserable path by someone I voted for to quell the shit we have been inundated with for far too many years. (yes, it is a run-on sentence, and I am pissed)
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
35. Nope. No bankers jailed. But, they did nab a whistleblower who (gasp!) embarrassed them.
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
37. If he wants to talk about betrayal, perhaps he should review the Bill of Rights.
A quaint little document that used to mean something here. For giggles, he could follow it up by browsing the treaty from the Fourth Geneva Convention.

None of those betrayals began with this Administration, but it seems completely uninterested in challenging the status quo.
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