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no limit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 01:37 PM Original message |
Can We Drop The Charade That This President Acts On Principle and Not Politics? |
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Donnachaidh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 01:45 PM Response to Original message |
1. kickety kick kick |
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WingDinger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 01:51 PM Response to Original message |
2. Cna we drop the expectation that we hired Jesus? |
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no limit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 01:55 PM Response to Reply #2 |
4. We had a lame duck a few months ago, how did that work out? |
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WingDinger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 02:08 PM Response to Reply #4 |
7. How much political capital should be squandered on trying to reform those limitations |
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no limit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 02:11 PM Response to Reply #7 |
9. How much political capital does he have left after kissing the ass of corporations for 2 years? |
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bvar22 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 03:48 PM Response to Reply #7 |
40. We gave Obama "Madison on Steroids". |
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FredStembottom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 11:56 PM Response to Reply #40 |
60. Thank you, bvar! |
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salinen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 09:29 AM Response to Reply #40 |
77. If it were allowed |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 06:14 PM Response to Reply #7 |
53. In Portland Oregon 70,000 people came out for his speech |
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yodermon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 02:46 PM Response to Reply #4 |
21. Yeah. Obama's bending over backwards and the repukes are about to shut down the Government |
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Liberal_Stalwart71 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 07:32 AM Response to Reply #4 |
71. How do you expect him to reform anything when, through our anger, not enough of us voted... |
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creon (723 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 07:40 AM Response to Reply #71 |
73. correct |
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bvar22 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 09:32 AM Response to Reply #71 |
78. Blaming the Voters is a BIG Cop Out, and won't FIX the problem |
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Liberal_Stalwart71 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 10:19 AM Response to Reply #78 |
82. I'm not excusing leadership, but this is NOT a "Daddy Party." That's what I always |
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bvar22 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 11:16 AM Response to Reply #82 |
83. You can't FIX "The Voters". |
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Liberal_Stalwart71 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 02:22 PM Response to Reply #83 |
93. If voters cannot be motivated to get out and vote, then we've already lost! |
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bvar22 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 03:13 PM Response to Reply #93 |
97. At THIS point, I can only refer you to Harry Truman: |
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donheld (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 10:08 PM Response to Reply #2 |
59. We hired the opposite |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 01:54 PM Response to Original message |
3. Deleted message |
struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 01:55 PM Response to Original message |
5. Hate to break it t'ya, but that's a big parta th'job description |
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StarburstClock (583 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 02:48 PM Response to Reply #5 |
22. "we won't win by part-time amateur kvetching" -- thanks for clearing that up |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 03:15 PM Response to Reply #22 |
27. Takin it to the streets is an OK start but much more is really required to win |
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Liberal_Stalwart71 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 02:29 PM Response to Reply #5 |
95. Yes. The point I'm making here, too, is that we need a true grassroots movement at the local level. |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 05:26 PM Response to Reply #95 |
101. A real movement needs more than candidates at all levels: it needs people putting other people in |
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Liberal_Stalwart71 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 07:06 PM Response to Reply #101 |
102. And what happens if the media is corporate-owned and therefore |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 08:02 PM Response to Reply #102 |
103. The media has always been corporate-owned. The game is to generate enough |
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Liberal_Stalwart71 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 08:43 PM Response to Reply #103 |
104. O.K., but I'm afraid of Citizens United. We have to come out BIG in order to counter the Koch Bros. |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 09:51 PM Response to Reply #104 |
105. Of course, Citizens United is really really bad news for us. We'll have a long hard fight |
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damntexdem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 02:07 PM Response to Original message |
6. What charade? He's a politician. |
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no limit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 02:11 PM Response to Reply #6 |
8. Then maybe you know something we don't. What is the end-game? |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 02:26 PM Response to Reply #8 |
12. Deleted message |
no limit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 02:39 PM Response to Reply #12 |
17. What a simplistic statement to make. |
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FrenchieCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 03:16 PM Response to Reply #17 |
28. The point is to allow the Libyans to decide. |
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no limit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 03:17 PM Response to Reply #28 |
30. What if they decide to have a islamic dictatorship that will kill anyone in their way? |
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FrenchieCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 03:25 PM Response to Reply #30 |
33. What if? |
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no limit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 03:30 PM Response to Reply #33 |
36. What do you define as "well"? |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 02:18 PM Response to Original message |
10. Not until you establish that: were Obama somehow more consonant c/ all of those who agree with you |
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no limit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 02:22 PM Response to Reply #10 |
11. Any time you actually want to discuss the issues I'm all ears. |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 02:29 PM Response to Reply #11 |
13. I see no purpose in that. You are the one making a proposition, so the burden of proof is yours. nt |
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no limit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 02:30 PM Response to Reply #13 |
15. Maybe you missed my post? Did you just read the title? |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 02:40 PM Response to Reply #15 |
18. Review my post, please. My reference was to the full spectrum of issues before this President & |
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no limit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 02:44 PM Response to Reply #18 |
20. Your post had absolutely nothing to do with my OP, you cast a bunch of cast aspersions |
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FrenchieCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 02:54 PM Response to Reply #11 |
23. What is this "End-game" meme I keep hearing about? |
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no limit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 02:59 PM Response to Reply #23 |
25. An end-game is a meme? Did you think that during the Bush administration and Iraq? |
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FrenchieCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 03:11 PM Response to Reply #25 |
26. I didn't believe that we had a reason for being in Iraq to begin with..... |
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no limit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 03:17 PM Response to Reply #26 |
29. You didn't really answer the main questions I asked you, did you? |
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FrenchieCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 03:24 PM Response to Reply #29 |
32. It doesn't matter...... |
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no limit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 03:26 PM Response to Reply #32 |
34. That's interesting you mentioned Bahrain. |
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FrenchieCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 03:32 PM Response to Reply #34 |
37. For you, it's all or nothing...... |
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no limit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 03:44 PM Response to Reply #37 |
38. You would think that if you were so comfortable with your posts and the test of time |
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Gravel Democrat (598 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 02:30 PM Response to Original message |
14. "A year ago we didn't see a problem with arming these brutal dictators." Nailed k+r |
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TahitiNut (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 02:31 PM Response to Original message |
16. Do you know what "military aid" is? |
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Stinky The Clown (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 02:40 PM Response to Original message |
19. A strong K and a strong R |
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Carolina (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 02:59 PM Response to Original message |
24. K&R |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 03:19 PM Response to Original message |
31. Deleted message |
no limit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 03:29 PM Response to Reply #31 |
35. So how long are you willing to stay there to prevent killings? |
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phleshdef (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 05:49 PM Response to Reply #35 |
48. I don't think we can prevent all killings and its not realistic to try. |
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no limit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 12:06 PM Response to Reply #48 |
85. How do you know Saudi Arabia isn't about to slaughter thousands upon thousands in |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 03:47 PM Response to Reply #31 |
39. WMD! Incubator babies! Gassing his own people!!!111 |
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phleshdef (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 05:49 PM Response to Reply #39 |
50. False equivalence! |
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TheKentuckian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 04:20 PM Response to Reply #31 |
45. That argument doesn't change much If the region was urgent then they also could act. |
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phleshdef (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 05:51 PM Response to Reply #45 |
51. It seems those very nations wanted our capabilities for whatever reason. |
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TheKentuckian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 11:35 AM Response to Reply #51 |
84. These other nations aren't funding our military and they won't replace our dead or heal or broken. |
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girl gone mad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 03:54 PM Response to Original message |
41. What? |
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JoePhilly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 03:57 PM Response to Original message |
42. What nonsense. |
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no limit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 04:07 PM Response to Reply #42 |
43. So we don't decide when the Saudi regime falls but we decide when the Libyian one does? |
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JoePhilly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 04:54 PM Response to Reply #43 |
46. I do respond anytime I feel like it. |
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no limit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 05:35 PM Response to Reply #46 |
47. You misunderstood what I meant by opportunity |
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Turborama (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 08:39 AM Response to Reply #47 |
75. Did Gaddafi wipe out entire towns? He wiped out a whole city, Al-Zawiyah |
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no limit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 09:18 AM Response to Reply #75 |
76. Shooting at protesters = wiping out entire towns? |
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Turborama (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 01:10 PM Response to Reply #76 |
89. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Come back to me when/if you've watched the videos |
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no limit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 01:26 PM Response to Reply #89 |
90. If the videos show government forces shooting at unarmed civilians |
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Turborama (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 01:33 PM Response to Reply #90 |
92. If you can't be bothered to watch them, I can't be bothered to discuss it with you |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 04:11 PM Response to Original message |
44. Deleted message |
ecstatic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 05:49 PM Response to Original message |
49. Can we drop the charade that this President isn't being judged more harshly |
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no limit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 05:54 PM Response to Reply #49 |
52. Yes, I'm one big racist. |
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ecstatic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 02:24 PM Response to Reply #52 |
94. Didn't say you were... but |
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no limit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 05:17 PM Response to Reply #94 |
100. Ahh, okay. So I'm an unintentional racist. thanks, |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 06:48 PM Response to Reply #49 |
55. I genuinely believe it would be no better if he was white. Things are that polarized these days. |
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nashville_brook (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 08:16 PM Response to Reply #49 |
58. it's dishonest to suggest criticism of the president is racist -- |
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OmmmSweetOmmm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 01:39 AM Response to Reply #49 |
61. Bullcrap. If these actions were taken by Bush, the uproar here would be deafening. nt |
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ThomCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 01:47 AM Response to Reply #49 |
62. I haven't seen any evidence of that. |
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pecwae (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 06:24 AM Response to Reply #49 |
64. Oh, please, what bullshit. |
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bullwinkle428 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 12:11 PM Response to Reply #49 |
86. The real charade is this pathetic attempt to conflate "birthers" and their ilk |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 06:47 PM Response to Original message |
54. He is in the end a poltician...so why should we be surprised when he acts like one? |
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Keith Bee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 06:50 PM Response to Original message |
56. Has there ever been a President who has NOT acted on politics? |
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no limit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-29-11 07:56 PM Response to Reply #56 |
57. I'm glad you agree. no principles behind his actions |
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autorank (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 02:33 AM Response to Original message |
63. Very fine post. k*r He acts on politics as defined by The Money Party |
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pecwae (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 06:26 AM Response to Original message |
65. Recced. |
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Modern_Matthew (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 06:31 AM Response to Original message |
66. Starting a war for political gain is a disgrace to humanity. nt |
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inna (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 06:31 AM Response to Original message |
67. Of course we may not, it is strictly verboten! Leaders are not to be questioned!! |
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Bobbie Jo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 09:45 AM Response to Reply #67 |
80. LOL |
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inna (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 09:51 AM Response to Reply #80 |
81. at least you're easily amused. |
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xchrom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 06:41 AM Response to Original message |
68. Recommend |
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davidthegnome (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 06:52 AM Response to Original message |
69. Good post |
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Liberal_Stalwart71 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 07:30 AM Response to Original message |
70. I'm sure that not every action is a principled one, but to be fair, I think Rachel Maddow |
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creon (723 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 07:37 AM Response to Original message |
72. not a man on horseback |
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Turborama (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 07:41 AM Response to Original message |
74. "if Gaddafi won this fight Obama would be destroyed here at home by republicans" What? |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 09:36 AM Response to Original message |
79. Obama has struggled with what to do with fierce competing arguments |
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sad sally (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 12:58 PM Response to Reply #79 |
88. Maybe it was the North Star legend that misled? |
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amborin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 12:33 PM Response to Original message |
87. k&R |
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Arkana (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 01:27 PM Response to Original message |
91. Can we drop the "expectation" that we elected Dennis Kucinich |
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ReggieVeggie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 02:31 PM Response to Reply #91 |
96. we elected Dennis Kucinich? |
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cherokeeprogressive (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 03:15 PM Response to Original message |
98. Nnnnnnope. n/t |
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Rex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-30-11 03:15 PM Response to Original message |
99. I see he is talking with Daddy Warbucks. |
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