Let's be serious about 2012 for a moment....

It's not necessarily about keeping THIS guy President



As much as it's more about keeping THESE people from NOT being President

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eUNrVny6umU/TVRrB0fZtdI/AAAAAAAAAYQ/oVhpcxViWtA/s1600/GOP+Candidates+for+2012%252C+Whilly+Bermudez.jpg


BTW I'm an Obama fan and this NYC Liberal will definitely be voting for Obama again*






*Unless an ACTUAL Liberal primary's against him. But even then, they must meet the basic requirement of being able to comfortably defeat the above contenders. Because as much as some of you like to complain about him AT LEAST we have his ear, those other guys would love to just round you all up and put you in Liberal internment camps where you will be shackled and forced to watch Hannity re-runs with special guest Sarah Palin over and over and over again until your brain explodes and melts out of your ears. Whatever you do, say, or believe in, they will undoubtedly take no greater pleasure in doing the complete opposite. Let's never forget how old, rich, biased and shitty republican policies really are. And lets also never forget that sometimes progress is measured one inch at a time.

Fits on a bumpersticker I guess.

Change has kinda morphed since 2008, hasnt it?

America gave the last guy almost a decade to trash the economy and bash the Constitution, I'm willing to give Obama the same time to fix it.

Forgot all about it

Funny that a Liberal like myself on a site called democraticunderground is being made to feel shamed because I'm proud to vote for a D president. And we call republicans nihilists. Yikes!

The projection...it burnz

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Seemed more like a message of hope to me. A light at the end of a dark tunnel. A statement of pride for our President, that no matter what any of us think or disagree we can find common ground again. Oh well, peace love unity and respect seems lost on so many here nowadays.

Er...

he didnt become the first president to actually get HCR through congress,even if in a watered down state.
he didnt get rid of DADT
didnt get dodd frank passed
didnt raise funding for the NEA to its highest since 1992
didnt prevent the liquidation of GM and Chrysler
didnt cut the salarys for the bailed out bank execs
didnt extend unemployment benefits
didnt get rid of the ineffective mineral management service
didnt make BP pay 20b in cleanup costs for the gulf
didnt get rid of the militarys stop loss policy
didnt suspend taxes on unemployment benefits


oh wait he did all that... and more
http://www.blueoregon.com/2010/12/obamas-accomplishments/

And like you said, it's only been 2 years. Progress takes time, especially with such a rabid rightwing opposition.

Scaring people into the lesser of two evils, yet ignoring the fact that they are still. . .voting. . .for. . .evil

Voting for the lesser of two evils is not the way to achieve progress in this country, it is simply a way, sometimes a very ineffective way, of slowing down our slide into oblivion. If you want real change in this country, the only way to achieve it is not repeating the same thing over and over, but to actually vote for something other than evil.

If you think he is then stay home in 2012, but don't complain about the republican president if you don't bother voting.

You know, all those corporate and wealthy backers he has, the same ones he is out hustling up for money right now.

I never stay home on voting day, and yes, I will complain no matter if it is a corporate 'Pug or corporate Dem in office, because the fact of the matter is that we've got to wake the fuck up and stop enabling this two party/same corporate master system of government.

If you can't deal with that, oh well, the truth hurts.

Of course I personally didn't invent the 2 party system but together we can possibly change that. So by your logic the workers of Wal-Mart are evil because they work for an evil corporation. Riiiiight. How about we stick to judging people based on their own merits.

Continuing to settle for the lesser of two evils certainly isn't going to bring about change.

The only thing that brings about true change is, well change. Going completely outside of the normal paradigm. That is where change lies, not in continuing to settle for the lesser of two evils.

Change will continue. Change is constant as each individual is unique.

Let me be more specific. If you continue to settle for the lesser of two evils, we won't have true progressive change in this country.

In the mean time we must continue voting for the lesser of 2 evils because voting for the greater of 2 evils is evil.

It doesn't allow for a true progressive, liberal, or frankly anybody that will help the people over corporations.

Exhibit A: President Obama
Exhibit B: Clinton

Our two party system has become corporately corrupted over the past thirty year, to the point where no candidate who is truly interested in progressive change for this country is going to get anywhere close to the WH.

Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil, albeit one that is generally slower, and comes wrapped up in a nice progressive wrapping.

I don't see this current President as at all "evil". But I won't try to impose my beliefs on you. Carry on.

is change you will deeply regret for the rest of your life.

(See 2000.)

Believe it or not, enabling the greater of two evils is doing everything in your power to enable evil. This remains true no matter how much you deny it.

I'm not enabling evil. So I don't get your point. If I don't regret it to begin with why would I regret something again?!

:rofl:

I am disappointed that this is the argument we have to make. I thought it would have been nicer if it could have been about standing firm against the scary ones.

Oh well, I guess I can be flippant about 2012 most of the time and only serious a few times -- or maybe only once.

Who knew that DU only had to be serious about 2012 for only a moment?

They will move swiftly and surely to crush anything that is even remotely progressive or Liberal. They must be stopped.

A camp liberals only have to go to intermittently?

Obama hasn't been a great president IMHO, but he'd have to be a hell of a lot worse before I'd vote against him in a primary, and I think I can say he'd have to eat live puppies on network TV before I'd vote for one of the republican dildos that might possibly oppose him in the 2012 general election.

bad as Republicans!! rah rah sis boom bah.

Only the Progressive Caucus represents me. That is not enough to get me out of this right wing nightmare.

Fuck policy!

it doesn't mean that I like it or am willing to be played again. I have run out of steam believing that things really will change. At least under the current system.

That voting for this President and other generic democrats beats the alternative. My conscience and common sense would not permit me to vote Republican - still, I'm getting close to a point where it will no longer permit me to vote for any corporate D, either.

This financial crisis we are in cannot be balanced upon the backs of the poor and working class. All of this so called shared sacrifice is a farce that has been promoted and praised by the Obama administration - with only a small few speaking out against it. The President, his administration - and a great many of our elected democrats have demonstrated over and over again that they will not stand with the silent majority on the most important issues. How could they? They need corporate funding to keep their positions - and corporations generally don't favor us little people.

Old, rich, biased and shitty... that does indeed describe republican policies - it also describes most of the policies we have seen from our elected democrats in recent years. I'm getting awful tired of voting for the least of two evils.

Actually I encourage it and is a huge supporter of it.

I do tire of it though. Bad is still bad, though terrible may be worse. Some times I am tempted to abandon pragmatism and really vote my conscience - in which case I suppose I'd have to resort to an ineffective write in campaign. I don't see that I have a realistic or reasonable alternative to the lesser of 2 evils, but I can't help but wish that I did.

Or maybe I'll just let his corporate buddies and the billion dollar war chest get him re-elected.

despite my criticisms.

I would rather then Democratic party be more liberal and Social Democratic in nature than neo-liberal (which is a road to ruin for many people).

What a great system we have. We can pick the nicer and smarter guy who can then pretend to be with us while giving the other side, (corporatist) most of, (or more than) what they want. Kid gloves make it feel much better that way, but we are being managed in that respect, if you go by results alone.

Our other choice is the corporatist clowns who not only want us all to have less and the wealthy to have more, they intend to shove all kinds of divisive issues into the mix as they stand upon a "legislate morality" platform so that the values of religion and personal taste can be inflicted on the majority and then, those invasive prohibitions can feed the lucrative private prison system and restrict liberty to greater and greater degrees.

So, we get the slow, gloved finger up the butt or a faster, repeated boot to the head. Yet, the process continues within a self-serving system that locks the Status Quo into place and manages our perceptions and arguments with increasing skill while it assures the increasing enthronement of the wealthy who stand behind their corporate veils while we continue to lose financial and political ground as their power grows only by taking ours away.

That's a real choice? Parents play that with children before they are able to reason their way out of the two choices and cops do that with suspected criminals when one plays good and the other plays bad. It is a condescending insult to the people, for the most part.

afraid of a primary challenge perhaps?

Not physically of course, because they are all talk but back down super quick.

If it hadn't have received those, it would have 16 recs within an hour. Look under the "New and Hot" column.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=greatest_threads&topten=1

I am noticing all of the posts that are about electing Obama in 2012 are receiving lots of unrecs. Odd.

Because there is NO WAY democrats or liberals would unrec this.

There is a HUGE difference between the parties..

...it has outlived its meaning.

Pull the other one.

Because by the looks of it, my above mentioned scenario is EXACTLY what is going to happen.

Instead of WAAH WAAAH WAAAH!

to some on the left but they insist that their ideal candidate has a prayer..
It almost like they're tools of the nutjobs

Obama may be the lesser of two evils but in this case the alternative is really evil....

Eh, mediocre but all around good intelligent guy vs. GOP SATAN PRINCE OF DARKNESS HIMSELF!

Drill, baby, drill! Build more nukes! Bomb'em! Cut that deficit, but not the precious Pentagon! Keep scarin'em with the terror bullshit, while the ocean levels rise. Fuck your hippie dreams! We're going over da cliff, cos dat's how we ALL roll!!!

contempt for the base, and betrayal of the spirit of the presidential campaign may overcome the marginal differences between the two parties for me.

This could have gotten 9 recs in freeperville.

Anyway, I'm DEFINITELY voting for Obama in 2012.

I can tell by your use of caps!

The trouble is, when you read that statement out loud....It sounds TOTALLY valley girl. :hi:

It will help you visualize it more clearly.

After that wacky rebuttal he gave so long ago... I thought that was the end of him! LOL

:eyes: