Pot is not the Olive Garden of drugs. Pot is not the soda of the poor.

If you smoke a joint a day for the rest of your life, it is not equivalent to smoking a pack of cigarettes a day. Pot will not make you steal to maintain your habit. Pot will not make you angry and violent. Pot will make you hungry. Pot will do more for you than any of the myriad number of drugs made available at great expense to calm your nerves and anxiety at life.


And it's 100% natural.

Pot, it's good for you. Why are we still even debating this?

Down to zero in minutes. The anti-pot is strong with these wans Obi-Wan :rofl:

train engineers, police and fire. EMS techs -- fine for all of them to smoke a joint a day ?

Since there is no law against it.

Plus, pilots are subject to random urinalysis.

Cannabis metabolites remain in your system for weeks after use. The effects of Cannabis wear off in about 2-3 hours.

Other drugs completely metabolize out of your system in a matter of hours.
UA's do nothing to improve safety, nothing. A person can do a line in the parking lot, go clock in, take a UA and test clean. A person who imbibed with Cannabis weeks earlier will be caught and fired/reprimanded.
It's a big money scam.

It's amazing the things I learn on DU practically every day..

Some of them might even be true facts!

And she said that they had to abstain from alcohol for 48 hours before a flight. :shrug:

that determines how much is too much, legally.

How would that work with pot? This is a serious question. I'm not against legalization but I wonder how it would be regulated.

kind. all its going to take is one ghastly fatality.

But the profession with the highest rate of drug addiction is physicians, and no, we're not talking a joint every now and then, morphine, dilaudid, oxycontin, doctors can get it all with very little effort.

As long as they're doing it after work it absolutely is ok! :shrug:

what they do after work is their business

eom

eom

What - do you give out the wrong homework assignments?

:crazy:

a lot higher than normal.

Anyone in those lines of work is smart enough NOT to smoke pot BEFORE they go to work or during it. But if you frame it as "people doing dangerous things in which others' lives are in danger," then it makes it sound like doctors are toking up and getting fucked up before they go into the operating room. Which is bullshit. They don't.

But a lot of people in those lines of work DO smoke pot. They just do it during times in which they have less responsibility, like after work, on on days off. And this recreational pot use does not in any way hinder their ability to do their job when they're on duty - unlike, for instance, coffee, which can make any person jumpier and/or shakier than they'd normally be, and which is typically consumed before many peoples' work shifts.

But because they have status, they (usually) get away with it.

a) Beside the point, and
b) Probably not such a widespread problem that it ought to be legislated. Oh, and
c) I do not agree with your characterization of marijuana smoking as "despicable," but that's also
d) Beside the point.

I do find it odd that I don't see the same kind of indignation directed towards drinkers on DU, though alcohol abuse is a far more destructive phenomenon and alcohol a far more harmful chemical than THC, albeit legal. Certainly, on DU, I have never seen insinuations that

a) Doctors and pilots are knocking back Jaegermeister shots before major surgeries or occupying the cockpit, respectively, or that
b) Ordinary citizens are "despicable" because they drink.

Plus, there's the risk of arrest. Are we REALLY afraid of doctors and pilots smoking dope, endangering their careers by indulging in illegal drugs, while giving them a pass on the POSSIBLE, HYPOTHETICAL notion that they may legally indulge in booze to their heart's content?

said smoking marijuana is dispicable.

Please, PLEASE show me where I said that, OK?

One of the things that I was thinking of when I said, direct quote, "Some doctors do dispicable things" was a surgeon who was reported by a nurse for jacking off into the mouth of an unconscious paitent during a surgery. Now, do you NOT think that is dispicable?????????

Of course, after she reported it she was fired, and nothing at all happened to the doctor.

Now, would you like to apologize for accusing me of saying something I did NOT say?

Toodle-oo!

Quite some "progressivism" there.

I will keep that in mind next time.

semantic disagreement, you mean?

Nice projection.. the overreaction was YOURS.

Get over yourself.

medication. Not news, but how do you know? I would trust one who smoked as opposed to one who drank or took pain medication. :hi:

Yet, people turn the other way about that, but blame *all* homeless people for being addicts (which we are not), and "making bad choices".

Is there really nothing wrong with showing up to work in the surgery room spaced out of your mind???

still have your "status" intact. The homeless and poor already have a stigma attached to their life, why not druggie as well? It is sickening the way we treat those with money and those who have very little in life.

from those who tout themselves as Democratic, or liberal or progressive.

There are things I expect of people who label themselves with one of those labels, and one of those things it to not carry around prejudice and ignorance against poor and homeless people.

I also expect people who label themselves as such to fight for JUSTICE for everyone.. and that includes poor and homeless people. I don't excuse anyone from that, no matter what other subgroup they are in.

The time has come to take a good look at who we really are.

who mainlined cocaine regularly.

I didn't realize it until he was already in the midst of shoving a 12 inch tube up my nose. He was giggling and panting, king of the world he was. That crazy coke look on hs face. It was terrifying! I wished he was on pot instead. Damn.

that can affect all people.

So the real question IMHO is how to regulate pot use if we legalize it. We can't just count on all professionals not using too much pot or using it in the wrong situations.

There already laws against driving and flying while intoxicated, and the cops pretty well know who is impaired,you want the ability to test anyone maybe? move to Florida.

"the cops know pretty well who is impaired"?

That puts a lot of power in the hands of the police. With alcohol, there is a clear blood alcohol standard, so it's not all left up the the officer's discretion.

the drunk test that are performed. there is no mj test for impairment, only for mj in the blood. You can't hold everything up to search for a test , as that is subjective. Does bad short term memory mean you can't drive?. I used to smoke one on the chair lift then g

the drunk test that are performed. there is no mj test for impairment, only for mj in the blood. You can't hold everything up to search for a test , as that is subjective. Does bad short term memory mean you can't drive?. I used to smoke one on the chair lift then go skiing. Ther is no standard, and won't be

They can go out for a drink after work, yes?

Preferably in the evening, off duty, but yes-- I believe members of EVERY ONE of those professions can likely benefit from stress relief and relaxation, at the very least, and that their clients ultimately benefit too. So to be clear, every one them smoking pot daily meet with my absolute approval.

you're just trying to flamebait so no i will not respond to any replies to this by you KurtNYC, but yes, it's fine. grow up. live a little. want to monitor everyone's pee now too? :eyes:

because those other drugs are out of your system much faster than pot, and thus less likely to show up on a random UA. Is THAT better than having them smoke a joint a day?

I think we need a more balanced drug testing program that would simply measure whether you have enough pot in your system to make you non-functional in your work situation. Short of that, it shouldn't be an issue.

yep, its ok

infantry units and the chopper pilots who transported the troops to and from the LZ's (landing zones) and who provided air support whenever the infantry needed firepower in a firefight.

Because I was an officer and was assigned to the aviation unit but went on operations with the infantry units, I lived and hung out with the pilots who flew the helicopters. They were my friends and my 'co-workers'--to use a civilian term to describe our relationship. These officers and warrant officers, were some of the most amazingly skillful and courageous people I have ever known in my life. They flew 'slicks', Huey gunships, Cobra gunships, and Chinooks. They flew day and night and under some of the most intimidating and deadly conditions imaginable.

I cannot muster the words to adequately explain how much confidence we had in those men and how much their skill and courage and acts under deadly circumstances meant to me and to the others whose lives they saved every day.

Many of those pilots were potheads. They smoked pot while flying their aircraft and while hanging out waiting to go on a mission and while just relaxing at base camp. I've seen them making gun runs in Cobras with rockets and miniguns AT NIGHT within 100 feet of our positions and they were absolutely deadly accurate with their fire. Several days later, when we talked about that night, they were laughing and telling me how they had just been flying and toking on a bowl right before they got the call to help the grunts. They were stoned out of their gourds and were flying high performance aircraft at night. This happened over and over and over again.

That situation existed among many of the pilots who flew in Vietnam.

Those guys would not even THINK of drinking before they flew, but they smoked dope all the frickin' time.

Just sayin'

Thanks for sharing that.

Still, it does an equivalent to the poster at #42 who wrote about surgeons who DON'T smoke before they operate. I liked that comment.
These guys you knew were operating ay HIGH SPEED with DEADLY WEAPONS and did not FUCK UP.
Nice counter. But it was a shame to waste all those Viet civilians. Just sayin'.

AKA VC.

Now, if you're talking about A4 pilots, that's a different story. But I doubt they were burning one in the cockpit.

There seems to be one in every crowd.x(

Think (on your own) much?

and had a few hours to spare, they'd be able to do their jobs just fine. The effects don't last, and very few people are going to smoke a whole joint by themselves anyway.

depending on the amount you smoke. Daily, moderate use is about 30 days. Less if once a week etc. That's so frustrating for me as a smoker. And living in Flori-duh. *shudders*

Cheers
Sandy

Yes.

And please provide the evidence that it isn't.

You didn't mean 'on the job', did you? That would be stupid.

than that they drink a bottle of vodka every day. Which is perfectly legal, by the way.

On edit: 'cause I can't's spell :-(

If pot should be illegal, so should alcohol and tobacco. Since almost no one is pushing to re-criminalize alcohol, most anyone who does not believe in the legal use of marijuana is thus a giant hypocrite.

Reactions aren't the same for everyone.

Most of the benefits of pot can be gotten via meditation. I know this for a fact.

Share your "fact"! :popcorn:

For starters, here is a Google link to scholarly articles on using Meditation for pain management:

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=meditation+pain+management&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart

I see I misread. :hide:

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mediate, medicate or meditate about this first 't' issue.


Kidding Kitty, good morning!

Really :)

Love ya!
My own story...
I am 50, surfing and skateboarding since I was 6. My body...well, it hurts.
I can pop a Vicodin and feel great but woozy for 6 hours or roll a skinny and feel good and not woozy for a few hours.
The hot tub helps but most days, I burn one by 5 pm.
Never at work or when I have any responsibilties other than breathing.
Mentally, not much changes, I still think too much.
I can't eat weed food though, I don't use weed for the high and weed food gets me STONED.
Would rather be a bit more focused.

Under a doctor's supervision. But I really try to limit the use of both.

Jeez, I'm not like a christian scientist who says don't take medicine just pray it away.

And as far as smoking mj for pain... if you are in pain, doesn't the pot just help with that and not so much get you high? I have heard that mj is WAY more selective these days than when I smoked. You can get special weed for pain, for insomnia, for getting high etc.

I used to body surf summers before I graduated high school. Now I am too out of shape. I'm pushing 50 and dealing with some biological stuff.

I find the times when meditation really doesn't work for me is when I have become "scattered". And also been eating too much "fun" food over too long a time. Maybe inflammation has something to do with it.

it has a very different effect on my pain than pain meds (my doctor is OK with it) so it works on it from another angle. I don't get anything really good - no medical MJ around me so it's just avg swag. Besides, the myth of mj being much stronger than "back in the day" is a myth - it's about the same (and I'm 40 in a month). They have created better strains but nothing as selective as you suggest. (I am a connoisseur in the area lol ;)

Best of luck. Being a CPP sucks. Meditation works for my anxiety but not on my pain =(
Every *body* is different.
Cheers
Sandy

I'm highly allergic to it's smoke.

and bactrim it seems.

Elaborate Please:smoke:

Plus I hate the time dilation. Abso-fucking-lutely hate it. More for you guys.

:shrug: And the nice thing about pot medication? I pay $50.00 a year for my license and grow enough medication for the rest of the year from donated seeds. If I took pharma meds, I'm looking at easily $400.00 a month. That's $50.00/year vs. $400.00/month.

your mind.

To each their own I suppose.
You?

I provided a link to scholarly articles concerning using meditation for pain management. It isn't woo woo anymore than learning to walk, read and do mathematics.

I imagine most people define "woowoo" as 'something I don't know too much about, am too lazy to research, so I will simply minimize it to sound cynically clever..."

Where the men are men and the laws really suck.
Good morning LanternWaste!
Greetings from Oregon where we have laws.
Laws that say those bushes out back are legal.
Out here in the West, we are stoned, we are free.
Enjoy your day.

I was going to get all woo woo but decided that your sense of humor may have taken a day off.

OK. Mea culpa. Reading too fast. But my point still stands. Unfortunately, no amount of mediTation is going to force my bronchial tubes open but I'm glad you've found something that works for your.

I don't smoke it (now) but when I suffered from cramps which so bad I cried and even screamed in pain I discovered a few tokes worled better than legal opioids (like Vicodin).

A friend had severe allergic asthma and found relief by smoking a little weed, not a lot, and didn't need to use the expensive asthma drugs.

pot grows your mind also! :shrug:
link

Why open your mind with a crow-bar when you can simply use the key in your pocket?

My Parents were dopers but I was never in to it. I treat it as a medicine, not a religion.
And if you have some mystical meditation that will sooth these aching bones...I am all ears.
I do know others who are prone to anxiety attacks when they puff but I see that they usually have more issues in their heads than weed or they can deal with.


Its a big tent.


I would never endorse any one getting high who has life and death in their hands.

Nope.


:hi:


(you are fast!)

People can have reactions.

--imm

I tried meditation and it didn't agree with me.

--imm

pain, chemo nausea, glaucoma is just ludicrous. Sorry, but it is. Among other things, it is extremely difficult to master meditation techniques when in extreme pain. Even for those who are adept, such conditions make the practice very difficult.
Meditation has many uses, but it is not a replacement for needed medications in most situations. One does not meditate instead of taking insulin, now does one?

but then it's interesting that you need to clamp onto extreme examples.

And while you can take extreme examples, the fact is that learning to control your thoughts and your reactions to pain and unpleasant stimuli is possible and would help for many, many people who use drugs.

And a huge number of DU'ers posting use drugs to get high.

I agree meditation is good for everyone, however, have you ever experienced severe chronic pain and was able to use meditation to adequately relieve that pain for a long period of time?

the circuit. BUT, and this is a big BUT, I would say my condition pales in comparison to many others experiencing chronic pain. I am not telling anyone what to do. But there are alternatives.

And I absolutely stand my statement that Meditation can help manage a lot of what people use pot for.

Just because someone doesn't believe it can't, or doesn't want to try or feels threatened by that statement doesn't negate the truth of it.

And there is established science backing up what I said.

My friend's father is 80 years old; he's been on disability for half his life from rheumatoid arthritis, a particularly nasty disease.

They have tried everything to ease this man's pain...every kind of pain killer, which rip up his stomach, make him feel out of it, and aren't that effective. They've tried anti-depressants, which have numerous side effects, seizure meds like gabapentin that don't work, prednisone, which has horrible effects on the body when taken long term.

Needless to say, meditation is also not an option for him at his age and degree of illness.

The family is at the end of their ropes watching him writhe in pain. If they find that pot works to ease his pain...more power to them.

I respect that meditation can be a powerful tool, however, in some cases it isn't the answer.

:)

Kitty, do you use that drug to get high? :shrug:

LOL.

"And a huge number of DU'ers posting use drugs to get high."

Wow, really? You don't say! Why do some people feel they can regulate what others do in their spare time. Maybe some of what you consider "fun" may be abhorrent for some, should they have the right to ban you from enjoying yourself?

all options are on the table. LOL. Meditation is brilliant is does help - but for *me* anyway it doesnt work alone. It's great for my anxiety as I mentioned previously and I do have the occasional issue of my anxiety getting worse with smoke - usually chitty smoke does that to me.

Meditation is just one tool in my personal grab bag of "things that help me" - why people are giving you hell over it is beyond me! :shrug:

Cheers
Sandy
:hug:

WHAT are we going to do with you?

:evilgrin:

I just LOVE how so many people who consider themselves so "aware" feel perfectly comfortable with prescribing for others.

Totally amazing.

I thank you for your compassion and level-headedness. :yourock:

I'll tell that one to my nephew who's dying of bone cancer right now. Last night he was screaming with pain, and the only thing they could do for him until his surgery(severing the nerves that go to his right leg) earlier this afternoon was put him in a drug induced coma.

I'm afraid pot or meditation wouldn't have been much help. But before he got to this point, he did smoke a lot of pot, and it did help him a lot. He lives in a state where medical marijuana is legal.

yes pot is not for everyone, but everyone that it is for they should have access to.

Etanercept is used to relieve the symptoms of certain autoimmune disorders (conditions in which the immune system attacks healthy parts of the body and causes pain, swelling, and damage) including: rheumatoid arthritis (condition in which the body attacks its own joints, causing pain, swelling, and loss of function ...

Common side effects of ENBREL

Injection site reactions such as redness, rash, swelling, itching, or pain. These symptoms usually go away within 3 to 5 days. If you have pain, redness, or swelling around the injection site that doesn't go away or gets worse, call your doctor.
Upper respiratory infections (sinus infections)
Headaches

Serious side effects of ENBREL

Risk of infection. ENBREL can lower the ability of your immune system to fight infections. Some people have serious infections while taking ENBREL. These infections include tuberculosis (TB), and infections caused by viruses, fungi or bacteria that spread throughout their body. Some people have died from these infections.
Risk of cancer.

There have been cases of unusual cancers in children and teenage patients who started using TNF-blocking agents at less than 18 years of age.

For children, teenagers, and adults taking TNF-blocker medicines, including ENBREL, the chances of getting lymphoma or other cancers may increase.
http://www.enbrel.com/possible-side-effects.jspx?WT.mc_id=paidsearch_Google_enbrel-side-effects&WT.srch=1


People with rheumatoid arthritis or psoriasis, especially those with very active disease, may be more likely to get lymphoma.
Hepatitis B infection in people who carry the virus in their blood. If you are a carrier of the hepatitis B virus (a virus that affects the liver), the virus can become active while you use ENBREL.

Nervous system problems. Rarely, people who use TNF blocker medicines have developed nervous system problems such as multiple sclerosis, seizures, or inflammation of the nerves of the eyes.

Blood problems. Low blood counts have been seen with other TNF blocker medicines. Your body may not make enough of the blood cells that help fight infections or help stop bleeding. Symptoms include fever, bruising or bleeding very easily, or looking pale.

Heart failure including new heart failure or worsening of heart failure you already have. New or worse heart failure can happen in people who use TNF blocker medicines, like ENBREL.

Psoriasis. Some people using ENBREL developed new psoriasis or worsening of psoriasis they already had.
Allergic reactions. Allergic reactions can happen to people who use TNF blocker medicines.

Autoimmune reactions, including:
Lupus-like syndrome. Symptoms include a rash on your face and arms that gets worse in the sun.
Autoimmune hepatitis. Liver problems can happen in people who use TNF blocker medicines, including ENBREL. These problems can lead to liver failure and death.

I'll take the joint for $1,000,000 Alex

:hippie: :smoke:

My post is not a defense of the "war on drugs" but I don't think that a statement like "Pot, it's good for you" is necessarily true across the board. Pot makes me morose, indecisive and a bit lazy. The last time I smoked it fifteen or so years ago (I posted about this episode a while back) I COMPLETELY forgot what I was thinking about in mid-thought. It was as though someone had flicked a switch and erased the thought from my head. It was not a good experience. I've mentioned it to several people who responded that that happens to them all the time when they smoke. I'm baffled as to why they'd keep smoking it after that but too each his own. It's not for me and I don't think it's good for me.

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Or rather it DID to me what it DID to me. I don't LET it do anything. In fact, I especially don't "let" it do anything to me now because I simply gave it up. My life is not poorer for it.

what in the hell does this have to do with a big tent? my wife has panic attacks if she smokes even 2 hits of weed. i know other people who smoke every day but only just before bed as pot/hash tends to make them sedentary whereas I smoke and then go bike riding, smoke and then go out hiking or walking around town, smoke and go to the museum or whatever.

Always.
I guess I do that and meditate a bit on the water before paddling out.
Meditation and weed-its super effective!

i get stoned and then ride up a mountain. other people would get stoned and stay on their couch.

Much like "I merely allow Tylenol PM to make me sleepy..."

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

*

sometimes when i smoke before riding my bicycle suddenly i am on a trail and i think "where in the fuck am i???" but i know i will remember in a few minutes so its no big deal.

The thought VANISHED. I can't stressed that enough. I didn't remember it in a few minutes, a few hours, or a few days. It's not something I wanted happening to me ever again.

that is one of the side effects of pot, it makes sense that if you dont like that you dont smoke pot.

Love ya!

Love ya back.

That happens to me all the time. I'm glad I don't panic over it, or else I'd have to commit myself every time I walked into a room and forgot what I came in there for.

Walk in room, see her....uh...derp!

I have NEVER COMPLETELY forgotten what I was thinking about WHILE I was thinking it and then never been able to retreive the thought. It only happened to me that one time--after smoking pot. And I think that experience is a bit different from forgetting what I walked into a room for in that in the time it takes me to walk from one room to another I'm usually thinking about OTHER things besides what I'm going to retrieve in that room, so it's not quite so disconcerting to get to the room and forget what it was I came in there for because my mind was occupied with other things as well. That experience and the one I described in my OP are quite different. Believe me. I was there. But on top of that I always DO eventually remember what I went into the room for which was not the case in the episode I had the last time I smoked pot. That thought is gone forever. This experience was VERY different from your usual, garden variety forgetting, "spacing out", etc. It was like having a thought SNATCHED out of my head. Like I said upthread, I can not stress this enough.

Some people are deathly allergic to those...

So yeah

Also take into consideration pot like any substance and or medication takes time to acclimate to. The initial overwhelming sensations subside with regular use and become less noticeable for most.

But if you use shwag, really crappy old pot, or marijuana that has been harvested past it's peak, the active ingredient THC (Tetrahydrocannabinol) begins to break down into other compounds like CBN (Cannabinol). This is where you'll experience the foggy effects of marijuana use.

As for the paranoid experience this can also be altered due to the properties of the cannabinoids in play. Marijuana with more CBD (Cannabidiol) will reduce the schizophrenic effects some experience when using marijuana.

BTW. I'm not saying try it again. If life is good without marijuana then your life is better if it stays that way. The same goes for any substance that you can live without including coffee, cigarettes, alcohol, and soda....

I am sure there is a point there someplace.

...was to address what sounds like a very blanket statement in the OP:

Pot, it's good for you

See, there was a point in there somewhere.

...and allowing cancer patients especially to get relief. I'm still not convinced it is as harmless as many proponents claim. I know certain varieties (skunk weed) can cause paranoia and smoking large amounts over time can cause psychosis. Still, as others point out, it is safer than alcohol or tobacco.

"can cause paranoia and smoking large amounts over time can cause psychosis"

The only thing that ever did was let me see the absurdity of the system.

and acute parinoia that ended about an hour or two later when people smoked a shitload or drank too much pot milk.

some people have panic attacks because the sun went behind a cloud.

I've ingested pot in all sorts of ways but pot milk?

two big handfuls in a liter of milk, heat the milk to just under boiling for half an hour and then drink the green concoction and do not plan or driving anywhere for about 10 or 12 hours. this is enough for 2 people.

When I was in the Air Farce stationed in Italy. We put about 50 or 60 grams of hash into one batch of brownies, cut it into eight pieces, and ate one each. we then drove down to the beach and went snorkeling.
six hours later we got out of the water looking like prunes and about 5 miles from where we started.

what they are getting. Also, moderation is key with everything. Drink too much, well, you know what happens. Smoking too much won't make you puke, but still.

I had a case where the defendant was pretty much smoking his own weight in skunk weed every day. He started burning his stuff in his yard because the Bible told him too and when the cops came to investigate, he shot at them (and sent one to the emergency room). The expert witness was a foresnic psychiatrist who was speaking in rebuttal of an insanity defense. He noted that the huge amount of grass the defendant was smoking over many months caused a psychotic episode that fell short of actual insanity.

I also saw a BBC documentary pot smoking that said that some of the new strains of marijuana (the aforementioned skunk weed) can cause paranoia rather than euphoria. It is also common knowledge that paranoia and the munchies are common side effects of weed.

none of that with him. In fact he's an artist and quite creative and prolific.
I'd say the guy had some psychological problems that the pot might have brought out. The same way any other substance does with some people.

weed, alcohol. I doubt it would have mattered. Some are just crazy or will go crazy whether or not they use any drug.

...but the witness specifically said that the heavy marijuana use (and it was a case of if he was awake, he was smoking grass) caused the psychosis.

It doesn't have to be a substance. Look at how many people go bonkers over religion or other philosophical ideas.

And, as far a psychological effects go, until they come up with a cure for severe depression that works for most people within hours, instead of months, it is a crime to keep marijuana illegal. I know people who would almost certainly have died without it in their hour of need. And I assure you, it's tough for a drug to negatively impact your functioning when there isn't any functioning to impact.

the scientific studies on it. It doesnt cause the problems, but those with mental health issues are prone to self medicate with anything and it will or can exacerbate any mental health issues.

Forensics psychology are not %100 fool proof. Expert testimony has been, over the years proven to be biased too.

Cheers
Sandy

Was the defendant a small rodent of some kind?

Hyperbole like that makes it difficult to accept the rest of your post is an unbiased report.

.....for about forty years or so. Through my experiences, I have found it necessary to experiment with pot daily to keep more accurate data and study cumulative effect. I don't recommend anyone else try this, but I was willing to take one for the team!

it is variable in strength depending on what it is hybrid with, growing conditions, harvest time etc. there are other varieties that are stronger. in the uk there is a hysteria about skunk because many early indoor growers in the uk liked skunky smelling indica as opposed to fruity sativa because indica is generally easier to grow inside. now the media in the uk says skunk when them mean indoor grown and will call weed skunk without smelling it or even knowing what strain it is.

I guess I'm making that same mistake.

LOL, yeah.... you're like totally in the "know" and stuff.

:rofl:

At least you did not refer to it as "the pot."

Anyhow, yes some people can not handle pot, just like some people can't handle drinking, or smoking, or coffee, etc. It is not for everyone, but those who enjoy it should have not problem accessing it. Educate yourself and live and let live, I say.

I said I was for decriminalizing it.

Period.

Go ahead, show one, just one link from a valid source that supports psychosis can come from the use of MJ. Go ahead, I dare you.

...of an eminent psychiatrist.

Believe what you want. It's not my job to convince you.

here's the deal though - people that are prone to paranoia, psychosis or anxiety may smoke pot and it can bring out those problems. It doesnt cause them though. You can google the information it's in one of the extensive studies done on MJ and the conclusion was it doesnt cause mental illness at all.

Cheers
Sandy

...is from an eminent forensic psychiatrist who testified that large amounts of weed can cause psychosis. Google is popular press. It is not authoritative on scientific matters and I don't have the scientific background to (or the time, frankly) to interpret raw data.

Maybe I should just get a subscription to High Times and and convince myself that pot is a magical substance that cures crippled children like most of the folks who responded to my post.

Pot or whiskey? Pot or heroin? Pot or Xanax? It's called choice people. Those of you who are having hair fires over pot need to remember that one word, and to stop being nannies for the world.


Let people make their OWN CHOICES, just like you'd like to make your own.


WOW, +9 to +2 in seconds..........I guess the beer lobby has arrived....

It's not a lot of things, but it is a sacred cow.

But it is most likely the most benign of the popular recreational drugs and its illegality has always puzzled me.

Petroleum right out of the ground and leaking into the Gulf of Mexico is a 100% natural substance.

We should legalize pot and sell it alongside beer in convenience stores.

But, please, that 100% natural argument is just stupid. Many 100% natural things are deadly.

Every other drug I know of, including alcohol, requires processing of some sort. Cannabis is usable "off the vine".

It's the difference between mixing freshly-pressed apple and cranberry juice, and some off-brand cranapple juice that contains a bunch of additives and HFCS.

Saying cannabis is 100% natural and 100% non-toxic is a simple statement of fact. You can't even say "non-toxic" about table salt or drinking water. Too much of either of those will kill you. I'm unaware that there's even a conceivable "overdose" amount of THC that could reasonably be consumed in one sitting.

Many 100% natural things are deadly, but cannabis isn't one of them.

:hi:

for a different product and has been taken up in various other areas. as an advertising slogan it is stupid because it is meant to imply that nature is pure and free from harm while the unnatural is sinister and vile. Really, the core of the sun is a 100% natural place but is utterly inimical to life.

The history of any plants species consumed by humans is complex. Humans chose plants that have better yield, tastes, or other qualities. Nature doesn't guide their growth and development, humans do. So unless you pick your pot form a wild glen in India, the possible origin of the plant, it will not be 100% natural.

Pot is not necessarily 100% non-toxic, as purchased, considering many growers use pesticides in the field, or mixed it with other substances in its trip from the field to the market. Also, most plants have small amounts of toxic substances that just come from evolving in a world where natural pests attack them and they survive by developing small toxicities against pests.

It is unnecessary to create an unnatural advertisement for pot to argue that it should be legalized, at least to the level of beer.

I think it should be legalized. Rather than build a pseudo religious rite around its purity and sanctity, we should recognize that is it a efficient delivery system for a chemical that makes people feel good. I've never seen an intelligent argument for keeping it an illegal substance, both because it has a relatively benign nature and because of the problems attendant to making its sale and distribution a massive illegal capitalist enterprise.

Our world is filled with things that are less than 100% natural that are perfectly legal. I think most of their advertising slogans are silly,especially when based on inaccurate and hyped claims.

Oh, and I forgot to mention fertilizer. Throughout most of the world, cheap petroleum based fertilizers are used. This would tend to be the rule unless you have small cooperatives who are willing to use more expensive natural organic fertilizers.

Every time it has come up for a vote in California, I have voted to legalize it. I will continue to support its legalization.

If you want to make pot a religious rite, delivered like Soma by the Gods why not just spit it out.

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It is a plant with hundreds of different substances. Now, if you want to remove THC from the plant through some process, we can evaluate it and see if it is completely non-toxic, but that would invalidate your 100% natural claim.

I am speaking of the plant as it has been used for 5000 years and counting. We would know by now if it was deadly, don't you think?

The guy died on the top shelf of his refrigerator:sarcasm:

The point you're trying to make is that THC is non-toxic in conventional doses. Stop there.

Saying it is 100% natural is a non-sequitur, and literally adds nothing to the medical marijuana argument. So what if a drug requires processing? There's nothing inherently advantageous in consuming a chemical in a non-isolated form. Isolating the active chemical in a substance, however, gives you greater control over the dosage and allows you to remove components that might conflict with the expected result. It's precisely the opposite of the fresh apple juice vs. processed apple juice argument. Chemists aren't adding anything when they produce morphine, for instance, they're just removing everything else from opium besides its main alkaloid.

To use THC as an example: Smoking or ingesting cannabis in its unadulterated form gives you little control over the THC dosage, as it can vary widely. Additionally, cannabis sativa contains at least 60 other cannabinoids besides THC, in varying quantities, that will also produce pharmacological effects (and this is why isolated or synthetic THC can produce different results compared to "natural" cannibis consumption). If a chemist can isolate or synthesize a drug that produces more controllable effects than would otherwise be possible, that shouldn't be something to get nervous about.

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That argument about things being "natural" is one of the biggest lines of bullshit anyone can ever trot out.

As I see it, TPTB want us to think MJ is a moral issue. It's not as far as I care (I don't smoke). The demonization of pot is a way to help justify the so-called "war on drugs" and law enforcement/the prison system. MJ seems petty in comparison to heroin, crack, etc. MJ won't be a commerically sold and taxable product while the tobacco industry exists.

Idle hands, Devil's workshop, etc

Basically, instead of getting high, you should be working

More bullshit from the "My job is my only identity" crowd

For over 45 years I have wondered why people objected to me smoking pot. Otherwise intelligent people would list/express reasons that over the years seemed to be about social values and work ethics.

As study after study showed, daily pot smokers did just fine in the workplace. If you are old enough, think of the world before Ron and Nancy Reagan. Before "Just Say No" was "If It Feels Good...Do It." And that was working. The 70's were a great time in NA culture.

With nothing else, the citizens against 'feeling good'....(you know who they are), began to blame my weak moral character for my refusal to give up cannabis. Made me think...

So I concluded that these same people essentially deny the uninhibited spirit of humanity and secretly believe that anything that makes you feel good, is actually bad for you.

.

Quote of the week on the white board where I drink.

I think there are certainly people who like others to be as miserable as they are. Those of them who are religious probably bring up the whole give into temptation/pleasures of the flesh stuff. I think to myself, "Dude, those are *your* rules, not mine." Morality appears relative to me.

LOUD MUSIC!

What most people don't realize is that alcohol is the REAL gateway drug!

You think they'll get any nicer when it's Pfizer?

They're my friends and neighbors, for crying out loud. What ever made you want to paint them with some broadbrush "drug dealer" FUD?

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and anyway, if MJ is legalized, your friends and neighbors won't be your suppliers. The closest they'll come to being suppliers is standing behind the counter at Wal-Greens or, if they're a little luckier, a well-regulated, corporate-owned head shop.

The apt analogy is your local liquor store clerk. That would be (and is where it is legal) the retail face of normalized marijuana transactions. ooo, scary clerks!

It's not an argument, it's a prediction and a damned good one.

If MJ is legalized, corps will assume control of distribution. All the well-intentioned stoners in the world aren't going to stop it, 9 out of 10 don't give a shit where it comes from, as long as they get the kind bud.

So we are in agreement that somehow liquor store clerks are very scary people.

I agree, you have not made an argument. You have predicted the obvious: we live in a market economy. You have somehow decided that legal market based pot transactions are worse than illegal market based pot transactions, and somehow stoner apathy is to blame for the fact that we live in a market based economic system. Yup, not an argument.

And it's not likely your neighbor will own a liquor store own a shop that sells MJ, or that the person who stands behind the counter in the US will be standing in a mom & pop liquor store, or mom & pop store of any kind.

I just can't stand anything going in my lungs anymore. There's enough pollution as it is. I have had too many instances of bronchitis to bother with smoking anything anymore.

Some people make it into a butter that can be used in or on 'baked' goods.

And - of course - there is always the 'highly' revered brownies. Yum!

I recently picked a new primary care doctor. After

two visits and exhaustive lab tests, he said I was doing

'fairly well' for my age. (I just turned sixty-something.)

A little concerned about that comment, I couldn't

resist asking him, 'Do you think I'll live to be 80?'

He asked, 'Do you smoke tobacco, or drink beer, wine or hard liquor?

'Oh no,' I replied. 'I'm not doing drugs, either!'

Then he asked, 'Do you eat rib-eye steaks and barbecued ribs?

I said, 'Not much... my former doctor said that

all red meat is very unhealthy!'

'Do you spend a lot of time in the sun, like playing

golf, boating, sailing, hiking, or bicycling?'

'No, I don't,' I said.

He asked, 'Do you gamble, drive fast cars, or have

lots of sex?' 'No,' I said...

He looked at me and said,.. 'Then, why do you even give a shit?

:yourock:

unpack boxes and decorate my house if not for smoking one joint per day!

Happy, hungry, sleepy.

...or maybe the circumcision of drugs. :)

We should make it a mandatory part of school lunches.

all kinds of yummy ways to enjoy marijuana these days. :evilgrin:

graders - weirdo. :eyes:

As for adults, I think it should be free and mandatory in a civilized society. Well, I guess we can't make it mandatory, but we should use the public airwaves and bully pulpit to encourage everyone to use it. Think of the beneficial effects on all of society.

Pot for everyone!
If you don't get stoned twice a day, you're un-American!

Do we put it in school lunches?

But pot is 100% good for you. So everyone should have some.

But using a absurd argument (neither are going to end up in children's lunch boxes) to point out a perceived absurdity doesn't work.

I like someone who will stand up and not just say hey, pot's not that bad, but take it one step further and say you know what? It's awesome!

but I'm allergic. It does not work as a painkiller for me: it concentrates any pain I have and heightens it. Although I don't notice the pain so much since I'm busy trying to see past all the strange hallucinations blocking my vision, so technically I guess it DOES help me with pain.

I'm all for adults smoking it if that's what they want to do, but it does bug me when people tout it as a universal cure-all.

being offended when I politely refuse it.

Thanks. :hi:

cannabis dependence never leads to stealing? It (and similar behavior to obtain substances) is a criteria for dependence, 1 of 7 and I have seen it a number of times. Not the best logic I have seen lately.