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Why isn't is a CRIME (Original Post) Faux pas Dec 2017 OP
It's SOP for the government to lie. Throck Dec 2017 #1
first amendment? really, that's the media's role, to keep them honest. unblock Dec 2017 #2
First amendment isn't really a great answer Orrex Dec 2017 #8
On the contrary, keeping the government out of political speech is at the core of the 1st amendment unblock Dec 2017 #9
How about this: Orrex Dec 2017 #10
believe me i share your frustration. especially irked on this point for well over a year now. unblock Dec 2017 #11
Now that's an answer that I really like Orrex Dec 2017 #12
We don't require them to swear an oath of office. nt. Mariana Dec 2017 #13
People don't share the same "truth's". NCTraveler Dec 2017 #3
They want truthiness, not truthfulness. haele Dec 2017 #7
Multiple truths and non-truths can be found in your one statement alone. NCTraveler Dec 2017 #14
To be a crime it must be written into a statute. OldHippieChick Dec 2017 #4
And who do you want to enforce this criminal law? onenote Dec 2017 #5
Send it to the desk of Trey Gowdy. NCTraveler Dec 2017 #15
Yes. We need to have an ethical standard re politicians lies delisen Dec 2017 #6
"Media has been an enabler on this-treating lies as no big deal " NCTraveler Dec 2017 #16
Because it takes a politician to pass that law fescuerescue Dec 2017 #17
This message was self-deleted by its author WillowTree Dec 2017 #19
There would be no politicians. writerJT Dec 2017 #18
Lol Faux pas Dec 2017 #21
"Congress shall make no law....." brooklynite Dec 2017 #20
The same reason it isn't a crime to lie on a resume loyalsister Dec 2017 #22
Because then there would be no politicians! lunatica Dec 2017 #23
What's a lie? mythology Dec 2017 #24

unblock

(52,253 posts)
2. first amendment? really, that's the media's role, to keep them honest.
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 01:06 PM
Dec 2017

but then, the media has failed miserably on that mark.

they much prefer making sure republicans always get to say whatever republicans want to say, then blame democrats for letting the republican lies stick.

Orrex

(63,215 posts)
8. First amendment isn't really a great answer
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 02:37 PM
Dec 2017

It's like answering the question of "where are my keys?" by saying "in the northern hemisphere." Not incorrect, but not helpful, either.

If we can require elected officials to swear an oath of office, then there is no reason at all that we can't require truthfulness to be part of that oath.

unblock

(52,253 posts)
9. On the contrary, keeping the government out of political speech is at the core of the 1st amendment
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 02:47 PM
Dec 2017

At a minimum, you’d have to get much more specific.

Lies from mere candidates campaigning for office vs. government officials making official statements, e.g.

That said, how do you define a lie, and worse, a harmful lie vs. a well-intentioned lie?

Once upon a time, I held a security clearance. I was told certain truths, then told certain lies that I had to tell if I couldn’t avoid the topic. To tell the truth would have meant a fine and/or imprisonment, in the name of national security.

It’s very messy to try to get it right. Worse, it’s a recipe for bad actors to try to get it wrong.

Orrex

(63,215 posts)
10. How about this:
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 02:53 PM
Dec 2017

Every word uttered while in the performance of the duties of the office must be truthful.

That said, how do you define a lie, and worse, a harmful lie vs. a well-intentioned lie?
A lie is a statement that the speaker knows--or can reasonably be expected to know--is contrary to material fact.

I'm not interested in quibbling about this, because it will go nowhere. But I find it intolerable that we are unable to hold elected officails to any standards of behavior or honesty short of the infrequent and largely impotent voting process.

unblock

(52,253 posts)
11. believe me i share your frustration. especially irked on this point for well over a year now.
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 02:56 PM
Dec 2017

i just don't think making it illegal is the right solution.

figuring out how to buy or shame the media into some sense of civic responsibility is my hope.


foxnews is a lost cause, but i have hope that the rest of the media could eventually learn to be far more dismissive of their b.s. and the b.s. that republicans tout.

Orrex

(63,215 posts)
12. Now that's an answer that I really like
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 02:59 PM
Dec 2017

"The press" enjoys more or less explicit constitutional protection, on the assumption that they'll use their power to hold the government accountable, but that seems to happen less and less as we go along.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
3. People don't share the same "truth's".
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 01:06 PM
Dec 2017

Sad to say but that is the truth. We do not want to be held to a truthfulness standard at any point.

haele

(12,660 posts)
7. They want truthiness, not truthfulness.
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 02:32 PM
Dec 2017

Truthiness is warm and fuzzy. Truthfulness requires thinking and can hurt.
Americans are very risk-averse.

Haele

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
14. Multiple truths and non-truths can be found in your one statement alone.
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 03:31 PM
Dec 2017

The whole thought of a political truth police is frightening.

OldHippieChick

(2,434 posts)
4. To be a crime it must be written into a statute.
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 01:29 PM
Dec 2017

Who writes the statutes? Congress. What other answer is necessary?

onenote

(42,714 posts)
5. And who do you want to enforce this criminal law?
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 01:44 PM
Dec 2017

Judges appointed by politicians?

We have a First Amendment for a reason.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
15. Send it to the desk of Trey Gowdy.
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 03:33 PM
Dec 2017

He seems to have a great handle on the truth. Or maybe Ted Cruz. He can determine if it is a scientific or divine truth.

delisen

(6,044 posts)
6. Yes. We need to have an ethical standard re politicians lies
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 02:25 PM
Dec 2017

to get elected.

Media has been an enabler on this-treating lies as no big deal

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
16. "Media has been an enabler on this-treating lies as no big deal "
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 03:34 PM
Dec 2017

Look at polling before the election on this topic.

It's not the media. It's the American people.

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
17. Because it takes a politician to pass that law
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 05:17 PM
Dec 2017

And lots of politicians to craft that law, and even more to support it.

Response to fescuerescue (Reply #17)

writerJT

(190 posts)
18. There would be no politicians.
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 05:20 PM
Dec 2017

Especially considering how broadly people define the word “lie” when it comes to characterizing something said by someone on the other side.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
22. The same reason it isn't a crime to lie on a resume
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 05:46 PM
Dec 2017

or to spouse, or to a kid about Santa Clause..... Agreement on which lies should be criminalized is an impossible fool's errand.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
24. What's a lie?
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 05:55 PM
Dec 2017

Take for example Obama's statement "if you like your insurance, you can keep it". Clearly true on average, clearly not true in other cases.

Or take the current Republican tax bill. Most economists scoff at the idea that it will pay for itself. But a small percentage argue it will. Do you only listen to the majority? What happens if instead of 90 10 split you've got a 55 45 split from experts?

What happens if a politician says he or she will enact policy A when running for re-election, but can't get the bill passed? Is that a lie? Is it a lie if a Democrat in a very blue city in a red state says he or she will enact policy A knowing that they have zero chance of making it happen?

It's far harder than you seem to realize.



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