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Under the Byrd rule, if the tax bill increases the debt by more than $1.5 trillion... (Original Post) HipChick Dec 2017 OP
At least now we know how to pass single payer with 51 Dem votes. LonePirate Dec 2017 #1
Probably not, the rules always seem different when Dems try to pass a bill. nt Irish_Dem Dec 2017 #3
What Republicans think about rules: FuzzyRabbit Dec 2017 #28
Yep, sums it up perfectly. :( Irish_Dem Dec 2017 #31
i don't think this is as easy as it sounds. unblock Dec 2017 #4
What bureaucracy? Just eliminate the age requirements for Medicare and establish a tax to pay for it LonePirate Dec 2017 #15
good point, that should work! unblock Dec 2017 #17
Nope sab390 Dec 2017 #29
Does the Byrd rule still apply on a bill coming back from conference? marylandblue Dec 2017 #2
yes, any reconciliation bill. unblock Dec 2017 #5
Senate is supposed to vote tonight or tomorrow marylandblue Dec 2017 #7
i would think so but that i don't know. unblock Dec 2017 #8
Arithmetic Iliyah Dec 2017 #6
don't know at all bluestarone Dec 2017 #10
Oh they understand it -- you fudge numbers in the out years if you need to stay under $1.5T. n/t Hoyt Dec 2017 #19
Yep mountain grammy Dec 2017 #22
They use "alternative math" n/t Beartracks Dec 2017 #26
Nor history Historic NY Dec 2017 #30
And if they decide to just overlook that rule ProudLib72 Dec 2017 #9
They've been following the rule so far marylandblue Dec 2017 #11
They don't give a shit about any rules. When it comes to this bill. Thrill Dec 2017 #13
Like you said, they don't have much time ProudLib72 Dec 2017 #14
House will have to vote for tax-cut bill again Gothmog Dec 2017 #12
Slap, meet dash gratuitous Dec 2017 #18
There will be so many loopholes and unintended consequences in this bill that is scary Gothmog Dec 2017 #20
Post removed Post removed Dec 2017 #16
Exactly what do you think Schumer could do to derail this bill? Gothmog Dec 2017 #23
No answer to your question yet. tazkcmo Dec 2017 #27
Yes, funny how they get their way, majority or not. mountain grammy Dec 2017 #24
You mean Ron Wyden, don't you? George II Dec 2017 #25
I wonder if the pork that had to attach to it for votes pushed it over. ffr Dec 2017 #21
Thats why it's always 1.5 trillion, no matter how many consessions they made. The_Casual_Observer Dec 2017 #32
I'm not holding my breath. progressoid Dec 2017 #33
Middle Class Tax Cuts erpowers Dec 2017 #34

FuzzyRabbit

(1,967 posts)
28. What Republicans think about rules:
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 08:45 PM
Dec 2017

Rules? We ain't got no rules.
We don't need no rules!
We don't have to show you no stinking rules!

unblock

(52,248 posts)
4. i don't think this is as easy as it sounds.
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 06:23 PM
Dec 2017

there are many restrictions on the sort of things you can do under reconciliation rules.

i don't think creating any new bureaucracy is one of them. funding could be changed via reconciliation, and executive orders could direct how it's spent if current law allows it, but i don't think it could really work, at least not fully, under reconciliation rules.

the tax scam could certainly be reversed under reconciliation rules, though.

LonePirate

(13,424 posts)
15. What bureaucracy? Just eliminate the age requirements for Medicare and establish a tax to pay for it
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 06:46 PM
Dec 2017

sab390

(183 posts)
29. Nope
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 08:48 PM
Dec 2017

We haven't invested in anything for years. Roads, bridges, and healthcare. If we had Medicare for all the system could not handle it. No rural hospital, no urgent care. The emergency room would be flooded. And at today's fee rate it would take 40% of GDP. it will take years to fix.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
19. Oh they understand it -- you fudge numbers in the out years if you need to stay under $1.5T. n/t
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 07:39 PM
Dec 2017

ProudLib72

(17,984 posts)
9. And if they decide to just overlook that rule
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 06:31 PM
Dec 2017

Who is going to stop them? These assholes stole the government. What makes anyone think they will abide by a rule when they ram the tax bill down our throats?

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
11. They've been following the rule so far
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 06:34 PM
Dec 2017

McConnell likes to think ahead. He doesn't want to get rid of a rule he might want to use himself someday. But there are ways he could get around it. Still, they all take time, and he doesn't have much time left.

ProudLib72

(17,984 posts)
14. Like you said, they don't have much time
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 06:41 PM
Dec 2017

They need a big win, and the tax scam is about all they have left. Honestly, I'm surprised they have played by the rules as long as they have.

Gothmog

(145,293 posts)
12. House will have to vote for tax-cut bill again
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 06:38 PM
Dec 2017

There was a portion of the House bill that failed under the reconciliation rules http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/365670-house-will-have-to-vote-for-tax-cut-bill-again

House Republicans will need to pass their tax plan for a second time after the Senate parliamentarian ruled that provisions in the bill violated the rules governing the legislation.

"Members are advised that we expect Senate Democrats to insist on a Byrd Point of Order on the Conference Report to Accompany H.R. 1, which is likely to be sustained," said guidance from House Majority Whip Steve Scalise's (R-La.) office, which was sent to GOP lawmakers.

"As such, Members are further advised that an additional procedural vote on the Motion to Concur is expected tomorrow morning, which will clear the bill for President Trump’s signature," his office added.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
18. Slap, meet dash
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 07:25 PM
Dec 2017

Even the slowest coaches in our political media should be able to see how haphazardly this bill has been thrown together. If this is supposed to be epoch-making legislation that will set the course for our nation's economic policy for the future, why are the Republicans being so sloppy with it?

Gothmog

(145,293 posts)
20. There will be so many loopholes and unintended consequences in this bill that is scary
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 08:03 PM
Dec 2017

Sloppy drafting will give the tax jocks some material to work with.

Response to HipChick (Original post)

Gothmog

(145,293 posts)
23. Exactly what do you think Schumer could do to derail this bill?
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 08:28 PM
Dec 2017

The Democrats are in the minority in the Senate. Senator Schumer has no ability to derail this bill under the reconciliation rules. It is Schumer who is forcing the GOP to comply with reconciliation and the Byrd rule. I am not aware that Sanders has done anything here other than give meaningless speeches.

Again, the attack on Senator Schumer is simply misguided and false. See https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9998397 Please tell me what in the real world could Schumer do under Senate rules? What magic wand does he has that he is not using? I am lawyer and I know Senate rules and I am not aware of any steps that Senator Schumer could be taking to block this bill in the real world. If you know of such steps, you could join in MM's thread linked above and enlightened us.

The only way to change things is to turn out in 2018 and elect Democrats to the Senate and the House. Without control of either the Senate or the House, there is little that can be done here.

 

The_Casual_Observer

(27,742 posts)
32. Thats why it's always 1.5 trillion, no matter how many consessions they made.
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 09:37 PM
Dec 2017

It's impossible that it's only 1.5 trillion now.

erpowers

(9,350 posts)
34. Middle Class Tax Cuts
Wed Dec 20, 2017, 06:50 PM
Dec 2017

That is why the middle class tax cuts expire. I read somewhere that if the middle class tax cuts did not expire, the tax bill would cost more than $2 trillion. So, if the middle class tax cuts did not expire Republicans would not be able to pass the bill.

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