General Discussion

BigBearJohn

(11,410 posts) Wed Dec 20, 2017, 05:33 AM Dec 2017

I'm not religious at all, but this quote from the bible seems somehow appropriate

"And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."

20 replies

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I'm not religious at all, but this quote from the bible seems somehow appropriate (Original Post) BigBearJohn Dec 2017 OP

I beleive this is the only time when Jesus became violent in the Bible. RDANGELO Dec 2017 #1

He didn't like sacrilege, profaning a holy place. nt tomp Dec 2017 #4

The WH and Capitol are overflowing with thieves and pathological liars. democratisphere Dec 2017 #2

Whats wrong with selling doves? Cicada Dec 2017 #3

They were sold to the poor murielm99 Dec 2017 #5

They were for killing -- to offer as a sacrifice to God. pnwmom Dec 2017 #6

Thank you for that interesting explanation Cicada Dec 2017 #8

Thank you for that answer Madam Mossfern Dec 2017 #9

The offerings of bread and wine are still considered to be for God. pnwmom Dec 2017 #12

Thanks for that - Madam Mossfern Dec 2017 #13

More detail if you want it: Ilsa Dec 2017 #15

Transubstantiation. Patterson Dec 2017 #18

Thanks. My brain is twisted from stress today. nt Ilsa Dec 2017 #20

He was upset because they made the atmosphere... Joe941 Dec 2017 #10

The doves were sold for offerings for things such as having a child, etc. moriah Dec 2017 #16

Well, as Terry Pratchett pointed out in Going Postal... Hekate Dec 2017 #17

I would beg to differ DAngelo136 Dec 2017 #7

I've been muttering that quote for awhile now. TomSlick Dec 2017 #19

Don's got 2 words for you: FAKE BIBLE. Vinca Dec 2017 #11

you're assuming republicans would care KatyMan Dec 2017 #14

RDANGELO

(3,434 posts)

1. I beleive this is the only time when Jesus became violent in the Bible.

Reply to BigBearJohn (Original post)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 05:43 AM

Dec 2017

He didn't like greed.

tomp

(9,512 posts)

4. He didn't like sacrilege, profaning a holy place. nt

Reply to RDANGELO (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 06:46 AM

Dec 2017

democratisphere

(17,235 posts)

2. The WH and Capitol are overflowing with thieves and pathological liars.

Reply to BigBearJohn (Original post)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 05:45 AM

Dec 2017

This will and must change in November 2018.

Cicada

(4,533 posts)

3. Whats wrong with selling doves?

Reply to BigBearJohn (Original post)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 06:26 AM

Dec 2017

murielm99

(30,755 posts)

5. They were sold to the poor

Reply to Cicada (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 07:09 AM

Dec 2017

who used them as sacrifices in the temple. The poor could not afford the more costly sacrifices used in their worship.

It was just another form of making money and profaning worship, as far as Jesus saw it.

pnwmom

(108,990 posts)

6. They were for killing -- to offer as a sacrifice to God.

Reply to Cicada (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 07:21 AM

Dec 2017

So in the Last Supper Jesus told his disciples to offer Him up instead -- in the form of bread and wine. So for Christians offerings of bread and wine replaced offerings of killed animals.

Cicada

(4,533 posts)

8. Thank you for that interesting explanation

Reply to pnwmom (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 08:32 AM

Dec 2017

And good to know Jesus was a technology innovator

Madam Mossfern

(2,340 posts)

9. Thank you for that answer

Reply to pnwmom (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 08:39 AM

Dec 2017

I know this is veering a bit off the OP topic a bit, but I'm curious as to the offering of bread and wine in the Catholic church.
In Temple times, the offerings were for God, but the congregations offered them in the Catholic church. What's the reason
for that change?

pnwmom

(108,990 posts)

12. The offerings of bread and wine are still considered to be for God.

Reply to Madam Mossfern (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 12:54 PM

Dec 2017

Last edited Wed Dec 20, 2017, 06:38 PM - Edit history (1)

"Do this in memory of me."

This has to do with the doctrine of the Trinity. God the father, Son, and Holy spirit are all God. So in Communion, Jesus, in the form of bread and wine, is offered up by the Congregation to God. The Priest accepts the offering on behalf of God and shares it with the Congregation.

Madam Mossfern

(2,340 posts)

13. Thanks for that -

Reply to pnwmom (Reply #12)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 06:33 PM

Dec 2017

sorry about the weird formatting of my previous post.

Ilsa

(61,697 posts)

15. More detail if you want it:

Reply to Madam Mossfern (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 06:55 PM

Dec 2017

Taken from the liturgy for the Eucharist or Great Thanksgiving or Holy Communion, most are phrased similar to this at the point when the bread and then wine are presented:

The pastor may hold hands, palms down, over the bread, or touch the bread, or lift the bread.

     On the night in which he gave himself up for us,
       he took bread, gave thanks to you, broke the bread,
       gave it to his disciples, and said:
     "Take, eat; this is my body which is given for you.
     Do this in remembrance of me."

     The pastor may hold hands, palms down, over the cup, or touch the cup, or lift the cup.


When the supper was over, he took the cup,
      gave thanks to you, gave it to his disciples, and said:
    "Drink from this, all of you;
      this is my blood of the new covenant,
      poured out for you and for many
          for the forgiveness of sins.
Do this, as often as you drink it,
         in remembrance of me."

Most protestant believers do not accept "transmogrification" of the bread and wine into the body and blood. It is seen as symbolic. In protestant churches, Communion and Baptism are the only sacraments.

Patterson

(1,531 posts)

18. Transubstantiation.

Reply to Ilsa (Reply #15)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 09:02 PM

Dec 2017

Ilsa

(61,697 posts)

20. Thanks. My brain is twisted from stress today. nt

Reply to Patterson (Reply #18)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 10:56 PM

Dec 2017

Joe941

(2,848 posts)

10. He was upset because they made the atmosphere...

Reply to Cicada (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 08:43 AM

Dec 2017

like a swap meet or live stock auction instead of a church. In addition the merchants were price gouging the people.

moriah

(8,311 posts)

16. The doves were sold for offerings for things such as having a child, etc.

Reply to Cicada (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 07:28 PM

Dec 2017

Because not everyone had a dovecote or their own pigeons, a business developed to sell them, making a profit off of the routine offerings YHWH demanded. Jesus was upset at the profit being made in the Temple's sacred area, that it had essentially become a marketplace.

It mentions that Mary and Joseph offered two doves, as they didn't have a lamb to offer along with one dove.

All these animal and grain offerings would make more sense if they were supposed to be what kept the clergy fed....

Hekate

(90,779 posts)

17. Well, as Terry Pratchett pointed out in Going Postal...

Reply to moriah (Reply #16)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 07:40 PM

Dec 2017

...the gods require the rarified and purified smoke of the burnt offerings, leaving behind the gross remains. Thus the priest of the god Offler found von Lipwig's offering of sausages to be more than acceptable, even delicious.