t

I like Biden, but we can do better.

But we need to be lighting a fire under our base. Biden won't do it.

We can't rely on - and we had better not even try to insult our base by trying - putting up someone who African Americans - especially African American women - aren't comfortable with and then telling them "What choice do you have?"

As an African-American women who is tired of having to pull white folks' asses out of the fat every election, I expect my party to listen to me and put up someone that does not have a history like Biden's. We can do better. And I expect us to do better.

well, in a fair election.

of course, we do have the russians to worry about....

"Well, in a fair election.

of course, we do have the russians to worry about...."

All Trump has to do to keep his "coalition" together is remain awful and appoint raving maniacs to the supreme court, whereas we need to nominate somebody who is nationally competitive and keep democrats from killing each other in what will probably be the most fractious primary season ever.

People were saying the same thing about Trump three years ago. We underestimate him, his supporters and the corruption at our peril.

Ed Rendell? What an endorsement.

Let's go for the young leaders! If you can't abide the thought of woman in the Oval Office, think Joe Kennedy, Adam Schiff, Eric Swallwell, Anyone but another old white man as president. Biden is so old, I also fear he would die in office.

win the nomination. Before you can think of winning in the general (Bernie) you must secure the nomination. Biden is a 3 time loser. Democrats have said no before and I have no doubt they will say it again to Good Teeth Biden.

which, as you noted, is not enough to win nominations.

Also, how exactly does he differ from Hillary and Obama on policy?

And has a record that will be a problem for women and minorities - the very people we need to turn out.

The last thing we need to say to this critical base is "Yeah, we know he's screwed you over in the past and you're not crazy about him, but suck it up for the team and fight like hell to get him in. We'll worry about finding someone that YOU actually like the next time."

That won't go over too well.

I'm kind of sick of Democrats who tell US to take one for the team when they won't take the tough stands themselves.

those incidents.

as V.P. and we've got a winning ticket.

in 1000 bases their decision on who the Vice-Presidential candidate is.

(Although George H.W. Bush survived Quayle), but I don't think a strong VP candidate necessarily helps a ticket very much.

I'm in my 30s, but work with a lot of productive and creative seniors who have taught me about the value of experience. Ageism is one of those acceptable "isms" that should also disappear from our society.

and I can assure you that I DO NOT have the energy I had at the age of 30. Indeed I have experience and I have been involved in politics my entire adult life (over 50 years now) and I can assure again, we need younger leaders.

Biden may have experience but he also has a HUGE bag of garbage that will not serve him during a general...especially since he can't win the primaries.

So many people seem to think that Big Daddy Warbucks is going to save us. But, I will tell you, the Hero lies in You. Get out and work in your local Party. There are clubs and committees. Familiarize yourself with the way the system works and get involved. Register people to vote. Just don't look to the old white men to save you. They are the ones who got us into this mess.

I remember how happy I was when Obama ran - he was the young outsider, with energy and momentum. That's what we need.

I also worry about a political system that can only look backwards. It has to do with money and power - of course, and having the inside track. That's why people are so turned off of the system, because the system can't find and run those outsiders with energy. Instead, it's all about money.

Biden is the easy choice because he IS the system and money will follow him all along the way. It makes us - as Democrats - regressive

and choose the familiar.

When I was working in television, my greatest anger at management always was that they chose "can't fail" over "might succeed" and that is what we do in politics.

He became president not Biden, not Clinton.

What we need is someone who recognizes the clear and present danger, can build the party as well as be president, and crush an opposition party that has betrayed the country.

Age is not the issue-old or young they have to be able to compete.

I would take a candidate on a feeding tube.

Biden has neither of those.

How do these demands to create age barriers differ from voter suppression?

Getting people to select out or pushing people out is not a democratic value.

I don't think we can generalize from your situation to all people in their seventies.

We have just finished 8 years of a young presidency-

There are no young knights in shining armor going to save us either

I think the age issue is misguided.

FYI: He's the first people I ever voted for....in 1977; I've also had a private coffee date with him before thee 2016 Convention. He knows how political parties work, and he knows how to get elected in a Purple State.

but he has a track record of propping up unsavory politicians...Hastert and Fattah come to mind.

I guess every party needs their black hat guy and I think Rendell is that.

time. His time has come and gone

Biden would get my vote. But where is the charismatic new face? And please don't tell me Gillibrand.

the thugs would keep repeating that Biden is too old. They would bring up past health issues. Even though that unhealthy crook looks like he could have a heart attack at any moment.

I'm sure I speak for nearly everyone when I say : I don't give a sh*t what they think, say or repeat.

Too old. To much the past. Too much baggage.

One of the Democrats most likely to lose against Trump or other GOP.

No slam to Biden but that is not where we want to be in 2020 and it is counterproductive to even consider that option now in passing.

Just no.

^^^

Ed, like many, need to get out of the NE corridor.

.... Joe Biden is our best potential candidate. In my opinion the only other viable candidate would have been Al Franken, but Democrats with highly questionable motives (watch your back Joe) decided to scuttle any chance he had. Perhaps between now and 2020 someone else may rise to the occasion, but so far I have seen very little that has impressed me as far as presidential material goes.

With strong support from Barack it's hard to see how he could lose.

Barack Obama's endorsement would seal the deal.There may be younger potential candidates, and other than being younger, there is no one that has the mass appeal that Joe Biden has. Personally, I have never felt more comfortable, and confident of the person sitting in the number 2 spot as I have with Joe Biden as vice president.

McConnell opposed him and Putin is a huge problem for him. And all three are despised by their constituents. Basically Trump bought the office with leveraged money and the question is whether he has enough teflon left to get away with it a second time. I'd say the odds are less than even and no one is in a better position to take it from Trump than Biden.

He succeeded in blocking legislation over a period of years. He succeeded in preventing the American voters from even knowing about the Russia involvement in our last election cycle. It looks like a hello lot of winning to me.

Putin succeeded to getting in getting Trump into the Oval Office. Putin is still at work Biden appears clueless.

Biden was the second most powerful person in government for eight years. He didn't see the massive loss of Democratic seats starting in 2010 after the passage of the ACA?

Biden, writer of the Clinton era crime bill, voter for the Iraq War Resolution, backer of ruinous credit card legislation which as bankrupted many Americans-I won't even mention the disastrous Anita Hill hearing.

So those who were so opposed to Clinton for a crime bill she never had opportunity to vote on, for a vote, along with Kerry, Edwards, and Biden,for Iraq war Resolution, are going to do a 180 degree turn and champion Biden?

Maybe they will because the anger directed at Clinton was fueled by misogyny and aided by Putin. But those voters are not going to get the nomination for Biden.

Trump did not buy the office with leveraged money, it was bought for him.

A Biden primary candidacy isn't going anywhere. He has name recognition, nostalgia appeal and not much else.

.... what you are talking about and what it has to do with my post.

.... And if it was me you were replying to, perhaps a few more details would help me understand what you were saying. Thanks

Hillary Clinton didn't run after 4 years of the trump trainwreck. You got to admit, that's a big plus for anyone who runs against him. Beside, if it weren't for the shithole called the electoral college, she would be president now by 3 million votes. I will stand by my opinion that as of now, Joe Biden or Hillary Clinton either one would fare much better in 2020 than anyone else being offered up. The only other viable option was recently put on a train out of town.

Biden is so old, he may not live to 2020.

Get out and register people to vote, especially in minority communities. It's time to move past the keyboard warrior stage and get on with it IRL

JMHO of course.

.... and as of right now I would vote for him over any other potential candidate out there, and being young alone does not a president make. As for the keyboard warrior comment, I don't know whether you are hitting the streets and getting out the vote, or lounging in Mom's basement eating Cheetos and drinking Mountain Dew. Right now all I know is you are using your keyboard and posting on a discussion site....same as me.

Joe Biden's plagiarism scandal; his contemptuous dismissal of Anita Hill; his vote for the Iraq war (Hillary was vilified for hers, but he get a pass?), his push for the bankruptcy bill in 2005 (that makes life difficult for struggling people today).

And Ed Rendell understates Biden's age—he's 75 now. He will be 77 during a physically demanding election campaign in 2020, turning 78 in November 2020.

to America.

Black people gave him a pass on this because he was Obama's running mate. But he never apologized, never made amends. We haven't forgotten and it will come back at him if he runs. Being Obama's best friend doesn't erase his record.

I remember this pledge. I wanted him to win the nomination back in 2004 because I thought his plan for dividing Iraq made sense. Now he's too old. Joe, I'm from Scranton also, 71 years old. You are a nice guy, but we need someone younger with more fighting energy. Get on the train and spend time with your family.

I don't remember the exact language but I remember the pledge and it didn't strike me as any more binding than that. No, I didn't think he would be running in 2020 but then came Trump.

But, it's going to take a vicious fighter to recover from Trump's destruction. Biden would be OK back when Republicans actually wanted the best for everyone.

And a known commodity.

The country will be greatly damaged by Trump.
We cannot take a chance on an unknown.

People who have not lived through Watergate, do not understand
the situation we are going to be facing.

But she's also a woman, so her age, wisdom and stability were smeared instead as being "too old, too establishment, too pragmatic/stodgy.""

But Biden's a man, so his age and experience are GOOD things, not disqualifiers . . .

Plus age.

I just can't with this "Joe Biden's our guy" from some of the same people who not only keep telling Hillary Clinton to be quiet and go away, but whined before the primaries about "coronations" and insisted that "Queen Hillary" thought she was entitled to the nomination. Now they turn around and 3 years before the general, are trying to annoit a man who is older, has a more problemmatic record and has never made it into the semi-finals in a presidential primary.

I don't care what anyone says - this jumping on the Biden bandwagon is a pure example of misogyny.

...an older gent who never got as far as the nomination is a sterling standout for the upcoming presidential nom.
Really?

more of the same ole establishment "incremental change" for us to NOT get excited about.

establishment anyday over what we have now.

freight train-much less stop it.

To beat Trump in 2020 in a landslide. Nothing against Biden, but we can do better than rolling out a 70 year old guy, can't we?

But I agree with Dean. We need a younger candidate.

They shouldn’t even be considering Biden right now. Plenty of young Democrats to get behind.

Most of the country already knows him, and likes him. There's a chance that an unknown candidate could not catch on, or be Roger Stone'd by the right wing.

However, the DNC went with "safe" candidates in 2016 and look what happened.

ran for the Democratic nomination he was rejected multiple times.

His time has come and gone. As Howard Dean said, we need a new face and ideas

at the dnc.
he is an asset, but he isnt quite the anti-drumph that we need.

but Joe as much as I love him is not the best answer for the long term needs of party and country. We need some one to capture heart and mind of young voters. We need bold ideas. An occasional funny story or a quip is not gonna save this country.

imposed on those with private student loans almost no ability to declare bankruptcy on them. That bill is responsible for a lot of suffering and difficulty for a lot of American young people.

I don't think Biden would get the nomination much less elected.

Ed Rendell is in a generation that should not be telling young Democrats who to nominate.

We need a young, attractive, energetic candidate in 2020.

Biden is a nice guy, but would not make a good candidate or president in my view.

Joe Biden is just too old -- born in 1942, he is a year older than I am. That he would run in 2020 is just a ridiculous idea. It's time to pass the torch.

Sorry. But that is how it is. I'm much healthier than most for my age. He should ot run. We should not nominate him. He's a good guy, a wonderful guy, but he should retire. I suspect he knows that.

Listen, I love Biden as much as the next DU person but we have got to come up with leaders that are tech savvy and have the smarts to lead us out of this black hole we're in. We need another Obama type of leader that is dignified, smart and knows how government works. There are several in their 40s that could do this POTUS job without humans like Joe Biden that should take the rest of their days and enjoy their family. Just like Hillary is doing. Step aside and let the younger liberals take over. My goodness, I'm in my late 50s and I think there are very capable leaders that don't have white hair yet.

I like Biden. I think he's younger than his years. He was the one who was far out in front of President Obama on the issue of gay marriage, and he prevailed on that.

We're going to need a respected person to mend our fences with every country in the world. I can picture OHJB being very good at that. He also has a wealth of knowledge that we need.

I'd just rather see someone younger, who can bring out ALL of the voters (I do believe Biden could bring out many) to the polls. I think this next election is still steal-able by Russia and the GOP.

I'll happily vote for whichever Democrat wins the primaries. I'd really like to see someone younger as the candidate but if it ends up being Joe he's got my vote. I just don't think that will happen.

I'd vote for Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson before I'd vote for Biden - and you can bet I'm not alone in that sentiment.

Winning House could help in 2020.

We need to pull out all the stops.

Women voters remember how they were sold out and in a big way. Biden wouldn't be able to get past the fact.

(1) Age is a problem.
(2) He has some baggage, e.g. Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings; plagiarism accusations.

Think it is time for the Democrats to nurture new, younger politicians.

I do think he would have an excellent chance of winning and to me that counts for a lot.

But, there's a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG way to go to get to that point. I honestly don't think it will. I'm not so sure he's even going to run. I think just about any Democrat would win overwhelmingly in 2020, even with all of the voter suppression, Russian interference, and republican electoral fraud that will certainly occur.

If he's somehow removed and Pence becomes Pres, IDK

Trump is harder to beat than Mamma's Boy.

Hillary Clinton was supposed to be a landslide victory the morning of Election Day.

I'll support whomever the states nominate but not based on some whim of an ex-DNC exec.

But that was also a weakness. Having a long history in government makes for a lot of mistakes to exploit. Obama's clean record gave him an advantage in the primary and the general.
Having decades of experience in government has not worked out well. Al Gore, John Kerry, Joe Biden, and Hillary Clinton all had cast votes in congress, supported policies that turned out to not be good for us, etc. 20+ yrs worth is a lot to explain and defend.
Better to have someone who is in earlier stages of their political life. Less to attack, fresh ideas, and high energy would be a good contrast to Trump.

And he would mop the floor with Trump.

Bots are already running tweets that Biden is a child molester. All they need are the myriad of affectionate pics taken of Biden with numerous people...I’m just always thinking strategy. I would vote for him, but the conspiracy theorists have mucho ammunition.

...on this one. Although I would vote for him, happily - I don't believe Joe Biden will win the primary.

We can only beat Trump with someone from the next generation.

If we nominate Biden, we'll never nominate anyone under 65 again.

Which means young people will give up on getting into Democratic politics.

in his zeal to look like a good guy with Clarence Thomas.

No, thanks.

to sit behind her in the hearing room, collected corroborating testimony, and entered it into the record. The Thomas confirmation hearings went on for over a month. Biden did nothing wrong and as far as I can tell the Anita Hill thing is a Benghazi. He believed her, let her speak, and voted against Thomas. And I have yet to encounter anyone IRL who remembers the Thomas hearing the way it's painted here. I don't think this is going to be a problem for him.

and then he supplied it to Clarence Thomas, so he could use it to prepare his response -- and to DELIVER his response BEFORE her. So before she had opened her mouth, he had let loose on her with both barrels.

The confirmation hearings went on for a month, but that wasn't because of Anita. Her part was only for a day or two. He failed to call multiple witnesses on her behalf who were fully expecting to be called. And when he did his questioning of her, he was just as rough as some of the Republicans.

He was the CHAIR of that committee, and it was up to him who to call as witnesses. He allowed the Republicans to call witnesses who asserted that Anita had a made-up psychological condition called "erotomania." But what happened to the witnesses of hers that he failed to call? He said that he couldn't call anymore because he had PROMISED some Republican that he would wrap things up. So he did.

You should read Anita Hill's account of what happened, or watch the videos of the hearings. Millions of women DO remember how let down we felt by Biden, even if you don't know any in real life.

But you are a favorite of mine.

Glad you're here!

Biden's performance was disgraceful and is largely the reason that Clarence Thomas is now on the Supreme Court.

I was there. I know exactly what happened. And so do many, many people. Biden was no hero.

You're right that the hearing went on for a month, but that had nothing to do with Anita Hill. That portion was only a couple of days and was tacked on at the very end - and just barely. Biden had to be virtually wrestled to the ground to let her testify. And if a Judiciary Commitee staffer, frustrated and appalled by Biden's dismissal of Professor Hill and eagerness to push to a Committee vote without her testimony, hadn't leaked the information to Nina Totenberg at NPR, he would have swept it under the rug. And when, after a tremendous public outcry, he finally buckled and let her testify, he did little to protect her from the vicious attacks of his colleagues. He was the chairman but he acted as if he had no control over the proceedings at all. (Allowing a witnesses family to sit behind her in the hearing room? Really? He gets credit for that? Witnesses always are provided reserved seats behind them in the hearing room as a simple courtesy.)

And even before her testimony, he didn't ask the kinds of tough questions the civil rights advocates begged him to ask Thomas about his record. He was overly deferential and seemed more concerned about looking "even-handed" than in making sure that the country was protected from an unqualified, right-wing idealogue in a lifetime position on the U.S. Supreme Court.

Maybe in the circles you run in this wouldn't be a problem for him. But among the people who knew 26 years ago that Thomas was a hot mess and BEGGED Chairman Biden to do his job - and even gave him the tools and information to do it, which he disregarded - this WILL be a problem. Trust me. People have long memories and have not forgotten this.

It's interesting that we wrote almost the same thing. It makes a difference when folks hear from more than one person who actually know what happened.

saw a different version than we did.

But I suspect some of the posters here are too young to have lived though the experience.

And the "Biden did the best he could" argument is revisionist history being pushed by Biden and his supporters. But lots of us remember exactly just what happened.

I see very little comment about his record on desegregation and how he aligned himself with the right wing to undercut busing. But the civil rights community who fought the battle only to watch Biden undercut us haven't forgotten it.

I like Joe Biden. I think he's a good man and an excellent vice president. But he should NOT run for president.

who wants to please everyone, and that can get him into trouble. No, thanks. We can do better!

Yet they don't seem to see the inconsistency or their own bias.

and the details are in the record. Here's a DU thread I posted last November challenging conventional "wisdom" on the Thomas hearings, i.e. that it was some great insulting blunder on Biden's part. Personally from what I saw then and have heard and read since, I think he did everything right, though I can't pretend not to have a bias. Hey this is DU after all!

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029863877

The best information comes from the Senate record of the Thomas confirmation hearing which is available in a series of 4 gigantic online PDFs. The Anita Hill hearings are in the fourth:

http://www.loc.gov/law/find/nominations/thomas/hearing-pt4.pdf

The CSPAN video of that part of the hearing begins here:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?21974-1/thomas-hearing-day-1-part-1

Biden's version of events, which is fully supported by the record, is that the corroborating witnesses were brought to DC by his committee, but at the last minute declined to go before the cameras to testify. He could have compelled them to, but instead entered their written testimony into the record which is in the PDF above starting at page 440. This account is summarized in his recent (Nov. 18) NPR interview:

https://www.npr.org/2017/11/18/564798115/joe-biden-remembers-his-son-in-his-new-memoir

I realize that the negative view isn't just an internet meme, and has been part of the media narrative for a while, but I personally find that Joe's account accords more fully with the record of events, and with what I remember. My conclusion is that this is a Benghazi that we'll have to deal with if he decides to run. So I think it's a good conversation to have.

Happy New Year to all!