SS benefits? Isn't the answer everyone?

...but what that will do is recast SS as a "poor person's" benefit...like food stamps.

Right? I'm retiring in 364 days.
At that time, we should have a little under 2 million
But, we have that because we bought used Buicks and Chryslers not new Beamer's or Benz.
We bought a 1560 square foot cape cod 31 years ago, in a small town and still live there
So, we would be punished for thrift. Now, put it at $100 million, and I'm willing to discuss. But, with a 20 year plan, including buying health insurance, our money means comfortable, not rich
But, these punks will try to take whatever they can!
Yeah, we've got money, but we vote dem. Why would give a fuck about my wife and me?

It's just like insurance.

So does Blackburn think those folks don't get it?

When means testing was suggested years ago (to the point where the very well-off would get bupkis) the Reich screamed with the argument: "We paid into it for years, and now we can't participate? Then why should we pay into it in the first place? So let us opt out right now!"

Boom!

And they would be right.

More, the government has been borrowing from SS to pay the general obligations of the gov't less they are forced to (HOLD YOUR BREATH!!!) raise taxes to pay for those aircraft carriers, Star Wars, etc. - ANYTHING but that!
We just can't have that.

But those wealthy people pay ZERO once their earnings subject to the Social Security payroll tax hit the cap (called "the taxable maximum"; in 2017 it was $127,000). Beyond that, even though money is going to the government's general obligations - it is a free ride, baby.

Those earning below the taxable maximum just keep paying, paycheck, after paycheck, after paycheck. The are the ones footing the bill!!

So Marcia. How about pulling the cap?

they are also not on welfare, food stamps but their taxes still pay for it and they can't opt out. They may even be so rich that they have their own body guards but can't opt out on taxes that pay for cops.

I always wondered why the super rich got SS and support the idea that they don't need it.

My fear is that it will trickle down into those who may have saved a few dollars and that would be the standard for not getting SS which would be devastating

I agree on pulling the cap or at least let me make over 127k so I don't have to pay anymore

Say you make 30K a year after retiring. Surely you don't need that much money for someone who is not working so they shit can the SS (24K). Now you make 6K a year and your are poor enough that they wont try to also take the 6K away - but 30K - who deserves that much money?
-Airplane

Christian, rich, white and republican.

Social Security is fully funded for the next 50 years. It's not in trouble at all. There is near $3 Trillion in the trust fund.

Those medical programs are not funded as well because health care is such a mess in this country. Fix our broken medical system and most of the problems with Medicare and Medicaid are also fixed. But then you also have to fund the programs something the kleptocrats never want to do.

So as our kleptocracy takes away our Medical coverage in old age, do they give us back the tax dollars they took from our paychecks? There is a clear line item on our tax withholdings for Midicare/Medicaid. Why are they reducing our benefits but not returning our premiums we paid into it?

Judgementally defective witch...

redumbliCON Gang".

limit the prices of drugs by Big Pharm, invest in prevention of diseases, limit what the Health Insur industry can charge, etc. Oh wait, that is the Dem plan. The GOP plan is to bankrupt and kill the 99%.

"... by innovating, utilizing health-care technology. So instead of doing that, we're gonna just slash spending."

I said this on here before and was attacked. I know entire families that all the adults are drawing SSDI. One family builds houses and does remodel work. They get paid in cash or because it is residential work, it never gets turned in for taxation purposes.

With this said though, just how the hell does she, or the GOP, propose to start weeding those out? A "death squad"-like group called "disability squad"? It won't hit blacks or minorities. It will hit white people, because they are most of the abusers. But in the meantime, they will be planning on hitting people drawing SS (not SSDI) that are over a certain income level.

I think we need to start looking at guaranteed basic income instead. Streamline all the disparate processes for maximum efficiency.

funding for 'welfare' and unemployment is primarily from the state... state offices often push a person towards SSDI to protect their coffers...

Blue states pay more to the feds in taxes than they get in federal money like SSDI. The opposite is true for red states.

Only 3 of the top 10 are blue states, the top 5 highest are all red states.

6 of the 10 lowest are blue states, with 3 of the 5 lowest being blue states including the most populated state in the union, CA.

Michigan is no longer blue. It hasn't been for a while. I'm not sure which are the other two to whom you refer.

First note that the big jump in SSDI participation occurs at the same time as a spike in welfare use so it's not likely that people were losing welfare and going to SSDI. Second, from 1995 to the last year on the graph, 2011, when you factor in population growth, the participation rate in SSDI went from 1.8% to 2.1% with an increase of 1.75 million compared to a decrease of over 3 million from the welfare rolls. If the SSDI participation rate had remained constant, there would still have been an increase of 620,000 on SSDI. At most, you can attribute 1.1 million of the total increase on SSDI to people shifting to it from welfare. But, even that is not the whole story; we know that the population as a whole is aging so you would expect the rate of disability to increase as well. On the whole, this idea that people moved from welfare to SSDI en masse looks like a red herring, or 'fake news' if you will.

although aging population would most likely be on SS and not SSDI

I see your point but the article points out that people are moved to SSDI as opposed to unemployment or welfare... no absolutes here just that we as a society just really don't know how to manage a system that doesn't have work enough for a large number of people (the same people that Republicans blame for their circumstance)

You can't go on SS until you hit at least 62. More disabled people under 62 equals more on SSDI. In addition, a breakdown of the reasons people are on SSDI would be useful. Just about every adult with Down Syndrome is on SSDI and typically these people are living into their 60s and 70s where not that long ago they would be lucky to reach their 20s. Then there are new reasons for people being on SSDI like autism spectrum disorders. The graphs you posted show a correlation but no evidence of causation without more investigation. It would be incorrect to draw any conclusion other than that,

my original response was not from critique or judgement... I never have been a fan of unfettered capitalism and understand we have responsibilities to each other and the environment... I think all the machinations and hoopla over social programs is unnecessary...
I want us to be responsible to each other... create jobs for all and income so there is no stigmatizing "welfare"

That wave of boomers hitting retirement benefits has been preceded by a wave of boomers hitting prime disability age. Between people suffering the consequences of years of hard physical work, people entering prime cardiovascular disease/diabetes/etc. territory, people suffering the consequences of prolonged stupidity, and so forth, there are going to be some bodies which just can't function anymore. And a large enough sample means lots of people will fit any subset.

Nothing against boomers, but more people=more people. Once up on a time, vast numbers of them ate Gerber, then went to school, then entered the workforce, now they're using disability insurance and retirement benefits, and eventually they'll close it out by keeping funeral homes busy.

desperate people unable to work and unable to retire turned to SSDI

If it takes too much of a percentage of GDP and takes away from other safety net programs in order to make it a livable amount, we can turn to guaranteed employment for all.

Social Security should be available to all in order to keep it strong. Another dirty Repuke trick from Blackburn.

So were talking 3 or more families. Otherwise you would have said "a family" or "2 families".

Seriously? The parents and the kids of at least 3 families you know are collecting SSDI and working under the table for cash?

I gotta be honest, I'm having trouble believing you. I just am.

for some families in rural areas.
From WP article

Franny receives disability for various conditions. Her twin sons were the fourth generation in the family to receive disability and the first to be deemed no longer disabled and have it taken away.

From the first article:

Know someone at a pediatric cardiologist office (the more red area the better) ask them how many parents show up at the first visit with the child disability report papers for doc to fill out. Then you have to school them on that's not how this works.

Next know someone at a rural clinic and ask them how many youth they have working to build their "disability resume" by youth I mean 18-24 or so.


Also at a clinic ask about the parent or parents (everyone knows everyone) as you'll find out.

Hell we have disability lawyers running ads on TV, that should tell you something.

Of course this is all if you're on the outside looking in at the problem...


If you actually live in a shitty area like I do you can throw a rock to the nearest known scammer. People that developed a disability after being laid off...or had a back injury after hearing about possible layoffs.

It's incredibly difficult to qualify for. A very large percentage of poor people, especially in the red states, don't have health insurance because they're working minimum wage jobs ... all that remains post Great Recession. They can't afford to go to the doctor or ER and even if they do, drug prices are insane. By the time they have to apply for SSDI, their bodies are messed up from untreated disease and degenerative diseases from years of heavy labor. The welfare system NEVER paid for men. It has only been for women with dependent children under 18., and since Clinton's welfare reform, it's limited to a total of five years per lifetime. The two have nothing to do with each other. The tragedy is it's mostly Trump voters who are affected.

Me? I grew up in the western KY coalfields. Either your family did okay because your dad worked for a coal company or your family was poor, because your dad didn't. Hell, one of sisters had a student say something to her that was an awakening a few years back. I have three sisters that used to teach but are all retired now. She asked her students what they were going to do when they grew up. One boy said "draw" like his dad and grand dad. My sister asked if her dad and grand dad were artists, and the boy replied "draw" a check every month and not work.

I suggest you get out in the real world every now and then and step out of that shell. I do not take very kindly to people calling me a liar, and to that, you can kiss my ass. Go ahead and report me, because that is what people like you do when you have nothing else to stand by with your opinions and remarks. You really have no idea about the real US holds.

Because If it's prevalent in a particular area, it would mean corruption within the system in that locale. The people who are supposedly using SSDI as "welfare" are probably paying a percentage to whoever is on the take. Frankly, I've never seen an actual case of SSDI abuse except on a TV magazine show, where the supposed cheats are no doubt hand picked by Pete Peterson personally. You seem to be spreading the new Republican meme of the Welfare Queen (who never existed) type.

Please provide actual evidence ... where, when, who and how many actual living people have you met who lead you to the conclusion that real SSDI recipient's are abusing the system in the kind of way you say?

is a product of a dysfunctional system... often the abuse comes from the state... trying to work with a system that doesn't provide jobs for people who want and need them and no ways of training people to do the jobs needed to be filled

see #52

from years ago. The article loses me when it said Scott was 56. First of if it is was declared Scott could longer do his past work than it is to be assumed he cannot transfer into any other line of work at that age. That is the letter of the law it's not abuse or gaming the system if a judge finds Scott disabled.

Here in So. Cal, daytime TV viewers are inundated w/ law firms advertisement for assistance in getting what's known as a "crazy check. " Many chronic substance abusers qualify for and receive this assistance.
I can not stand the Blackburn woman, but there is some validity to her abuse claims.

Last edited Mon Jan 1, 2018, 12:56 AM - Edit history (1)

Seriously. I've worked with struggling tweakers before - the ones who were lucky enough not to have a record.
They can get clean enough to be hired, but once they slide -and they will, as soon as something becomes critical, you must get rid of them or they'll blow the whole job to shit, and you and your project ends up losing everything - including any reputation your company might have had as a reliable partner.
Seriously, the people who scam to get on to SSDI or spend their lives working under the table - for whatever emotional or attitude reasons - are not the types who are going to be able to hold down a regular job as an employee or a legit (as in record-keeping and tax paying) businessman or contractor who can maintain any of the recognized ways to make a living.
And even if they "laugh at people who pay taxes", they're just lying to themselves; they need those taxpayers to support any standard of living they currently have.
These are people who would otherwise end up living -and dying- in some shitty RV in the desert, or spend their lives in and out of jail or on surfing couches to avoid the street they will inevitably otherwise end up on. SSDI is cheaper to the taxpayer than ERs and local jails.
They're not going to "come to their senses" just because they lose government assistance. They're living in a downward spiral they believe is their fate.

On edit -
Even though one person out of 300 million in this country may know one or two people who are scamming the system, you're still looking at maybe one out of 300 people receiving benefits who might "not deserve" them in Marsha Blackburn's world. But "Deserving" is a loaded adjective, especially when talking about possible neighbors or people with hidden disabilities - especially emotionally based ones. One person's unbearable pain is another's - or a younger's minor inconvenience.
Do we ruin the slim chances at a bearable existence for a hundred or so families just because one damaged, selfish asshole only feels empowered by gaming the system, because there's little else they are capable of doing that satisfies them?
If the scammer is only getting Medicaid from his or her petty games - because that and a couple tanks of gas about all SSDI might get them, it's a mighty poor scam for the effort - 'specially since only 20% of SSDI applications get approved first time around.
Now, if you're talking Workers Comp fraud... That's a State issue, and a much larger problem than SSDI fraud.

Haele

Who have worked under the table their entire lives. The single dropped out of high school to work under the table in a bar and remained there for over 30 years. She got cancer and now receives SS and Medicare/Medicaid and STILL WORKS UNDER THE SAME DAMN TABLE.

My sister's best friend and her husband have always worked under the table. They laugh at the rest of us idiots who pay taxes. They both get Medicaid.

We are all in our 50s and everyone is white.

How do you get SS if you never were married or never worked a job? If you work under the table from 17 until 53 you don't have any SS credits. I do know that the single is good bar buddies with a judge who did all the paperwork to get her disabled. Can you retro the disabled 30 something years?

I will say this. The single had her entire 70k inheritance taken from her because her medical bills are over 750k.

Edited to add: In my whole life these are the only people I know who go around bragging about using the system. Everyone else I know gladly pay into the system and look forward to one day getting a return on their investments.

so even if your story is true, that is all she gets. You can qualify for SSDi without any work record, that is sort of the point, and if she has a disabling disease, as she appears to have, then there is nothing wrong with that other than she is continuing to owkr "under the table".

Corrupt practices are always a problem, but the reality for most SSDI applicants is that it is a difficult process to qualify, it can take years, and you are reviewed on a regular basis.

Before becoming disabled. My brother was in the navy a and a skilled cabinet maker until his disability got worse, he had a hard back surgery removing discs, ended up getting a deadly and crippling infection that kept him in the va over a year. He gets around 700 a month and lives in old army trailers from the sixties that are two small rooms. The whole place is full of vets, mostly disabled, who have no family or another place to go. My brother lived with me until he went crazy on me. He is SMI. He lost his Ssdi when my mother died and he got a small inheritance. He got it back after living on it for a few years. There are some very disabled people out there. Many are already homeless.

If you are so concerned.

You really should report criminal activity, when you know about it. If you know these people aren't disabled, report them. If they're working and they're not supposed to be, report them. If they're evading taxes, report them for that, too. What are you waiting for?

Do they eat steak and lobster every night and drive caddies too?

Wanting to have the power of GOD to determine who deserves to live and who doesn't.

She was referring to SOCIAL SECURITY?

Fuck you, Marsha, you idiot.

I think there are children who are getting it, and they wouldn't have paid into it. BUT, your point is well taken.

Exactly.

That lying asshole and other thuglicans assholes are racist, evil and vile to their cores.

YOUR TAKING AWAY MY INVESTMENT.

Stupid women.

And who, pray tell, gets to decide who deserves it and who doesn't.

Both Newt Gingrich and Paul Ryan have both been caught publicly chortling that undoing the last remnants of the New Deal May finally be at hand.

This is their target, and they won’t do it halfway.

and the mobs storming the Bastilles that these corrupted individuals have recently tried to erect are not far off.

they believe no "Real American" wants or needs SS!

In reality, the "big drivers of debt" are the Republicans, who just passed a $1.5 trillion tax scam bill that benefits the top 1 percent and big corporations.

These evil bastards will make cuts to Social Security, Medicare & Medicaid, and they will do it as soon as possible!

Turning back the clock to the 18th century that is their goal. A time when the rich had it all and the poor had no rights.

Wake up America!!! Vote these bastards out.

be fought for. This is my understanding.

The rich could pay our whole national debt off and never miss the money.

God I hope someday people like Blackburn get what they deserve.

Socialism and wealth re-distribution is great with them -- AS LONG as it's going to the wealthiest and big corporations ie: to the top 1%.

Giving non-corprat or non-billionaire people access to healthcare or an education is a waste of money to them.

the author called it "wealthcare"

No tv here & the video clip is freezing my phone.

He's talking about privatizing, I think. So the financial or ins. co. decides if they would make enough profit from a person.

Just how long do we want to let the Republicans starve Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid between now and then? I'm not looking forward to the 25% SS reduction Republicans seem to determined to allow. The reason we need to start talking 2034 is that a whole lot of oldsters are likely optimistic enough (that they will be alive then) to start doing something about Republicans. Mid-terms are a great time to talk to them.

Well you are over 65 so you don't get no heart procedure and no medicine for you. Come on! You're going to die anyways.

They have been wanting Death panels for as long as I can remember.

and periodically send in paperwork explaining why they are still unable to work. Several medical doctors, including ones working for SSDI and trained to sniff out fraud and abuse, review a case before it is approved or denied. People rarely get approved on the first try and it can take years of medical documentation and appeals before people with even severe physical limitations get placed.

By making up arbitrary bullshit about who does and doesnt deserve benefits, people like Blackburn are really asking the average Joe to become the determiner of who looks sick enough to deserve pity. That's really what this is about- making the poor and elderly and disabled do a jig for their medical care.

Make no mistake- the myth of the welfare queen is just that... and they know it. This is about going after the people with PTSD, Schizophrenia, Bipolar... the "able bodied" folks who look just like Mr and Mrs MAGA hat but for "some reason" don't have to work.

20% of the prison population is mentally ill. Prisons are once again for profit. You do the math.

and they will do exactly that.

but hard working Americans dont care about their SS I guess, they care about racism and being allowed to practice it.

Without my SS check I would not be around long.

What does "health care technology" have to do with Social Security?

According to The Tennessean,
"Marsha Blackburn would beat former governor Phil Bredesen in head-to-head matchup"
(Sorry, I'm unable to post a link to this story, but a Google search will locate it)

That's all we need.. this heartless bitch in the Senate!

benefits should be reduced. I think the cap should be eliminated.

i pay into an insurance program for my entire working life. republicans raid the fund i have paid into so they can funnel more wealth into the hands of the already rich. then they tell me that i am not entitled to the benefits i have been paying for all my life. do i have this straight?

congress people (especially Republicans) are ok with (and give themselves) their salary, benefits and paid expenses, but somehow want to be judge of what all others deserve... more and more they tend to make laws without regard to what we think

we should be able to change their salary and benefits

and Mueller needs to get on the stick and prosecute as appropriate.

Everyone who earned them gets them. Those who don't "need" them can give to charity or whatever.

I use mine to pay for super expensive medicine (biologic for autoimmune disease.)

Take it away because my other income is "enough" to live on despite then being unable to take a special trip now and then, isn't fair. Plus, I earned it over decades of employment.

However, I do have a problem with those who fake a disability and find a "doc" to go along. Especially prevalent in poorer rural areas that have become dependent on such a charade to pay for their drug habits. Usually regions that have lost many lower skilled jobs.

Live in a place where seasonal employment due to tourism doesn't carry over once the tourists leave. The service workers then have traditionally claimed seasonal unemployment to tide them over until the jobs return. Then the drugs hit. Meth labs in the nearby state forest have flourished and a new income stream began. A crackdown meant less income to which they had been accustomed. Then the disability claims spiked. Vicious circle.

An article in the New Yorker some months ago (sorry, can't find the link) illustrated it - seems the malady of choice is "seizures." The article focused mainly on Kentucky as I recall.

they best stop spending all their money on liquor, women, and the movies.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/03/grassley-tax-booze-women-movies-277764

“THE REPUBLICANS WILL KILL SOCIAL SECURITY!” Voiceover, dramatic music, with uncomplimentary pic of your friendly neighborhood Republican candidate. And play the sound clips. Keep it simple and keep hammering.
Social Security is called the third rail of American politics. You touch it, you die. I can’t believe they would do something that they could be bludgeoned with.

I know a staunch Republican who ranted about "welfare babies"---women supposedly having babies for more benefits.

Then his 19 year old daughter got pregnant....he put an addition on his house for her to raise the baby....they are an upper middle class family. But it was OK for his grandchild to get Medicaid, Food Stamps, WIC benefits, AND for his daughter to go to college for free.

Fast forward...daughter gets married and new husband is going to adopt her child. In the meantime the baby daddy dies and they decide to collect his Social Security for the child instead of her being adopted by her mother's husband. As a result the child gets to stay on Medicaid and the mother receives a monthly check to raise her child.

I believe that the child deserves her father's Social Security....but the staunch Republican still rants about all the people taking advantage of the system.

It was specifically set up so that everyone participates and receives benefits. Roosevelt knew that, to do otherwise, it would be a "welfare" program subject to the whims of the GOP who, even then, was known to be the anti-American enemy within. It isn't a needs-based program.

that she doesn't deserve her position.

Is that right?

Voting might fragment between those who "deserve" SS, and those who no longer deserve it. The haves and the have-nots. Medicare can be available or unavailable on the same basis.

It might be an exploitable schism.

who want to take hard earned benefits that's paid for by the individual over a lifetime of working and deny them to people who really need this money in this rapacious financial system that only rewards the rich and those lucky enough to have made it into an ever dwindling class of people in charge of the resources, ALL the resources , we all need and depend on to survive. Those born on the wrong side of the silver spoon are not wanted in great numbers in this society. A working class is needed to clean the butts of the rich and their babies, metaphorically speaking, but that's it. And watch us veterans who have been wounded, poisoned, are suicidal....we've done our job for the people like the POtuS and his class, they want nothing more than we go die somewhere and stop being a drain on THEIR free money pit. This can't continue.

I truly hope our legal, judicial and electoral systems can wrest our still developing democracy from the pillaging, vulturous and we'll soon see, bloodthirsty class in charge now.

they want all that money to be transferred to the Elite Class