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L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
Tue Jan 2, 2018, 11:24 AM Jan 2018

MEGA-THREAD: NYT bombshell Papadopoulos report, biggest Trump-Russia news since Flynn plea.




2/ As has been discussed by @AshaRangappa_, the Steele Dossier alone would never have been enough to earn the FBI the July 2016 FISA warrant it was granted to monitor Carter Page. So attorneys and those in intelligence long ago knew the Dossier didn't launch the probe by itself.

3/ The NYT story gives us—it appears—an additional piece of the warrant application the FBI filed to get a FISA warrant in July '16. But again, this is merely a piece—as was the Dossier. We know multiple intelligence agencies, not just Australia's, provided the FBI with evidence.

4/ So Trump's claim that the FBI grabbed a dossier of raw intelligence it hadn't yet confirmed and ran to the FISA court to secure a warrant to wiretap Americans connected to the Trump campaign has been laughably false from Day 1. And media has not done enough to underscore that.

5/ What we learn from the NYT (though again it's not—contrary to what the NYT seems to believe from its headline—what makes today's breaking news significant) is that the Australians informed U.S. law enforcement in July 2016 that Papadopoulos had made covert contact with Russia.

6/ In fact, while today's NYT story is indeed this month's second-biggest Trump-Russia revelation—after the December 1 guilty plea by Mike Flynn—what makes it significant isn't that it rebuts Trump's false claims but that it may have *sealed the Trump-Russia collusion narrative*.

7/ If the NYT understood this, it would've led with it. But one must know the *prior* reporting on Papadopoulos to understand why today's news constitutes one of the biggest revelations in the 18-monthy history of the Trump-Russia probe. So I'll *briefly* summarize what we know.

8/ On September 22—40 days before we learned Papadopoulos was cooperating with the Mueller probe—I said that he had directly identified himself to Trump as a Kremlin agent in March 2016. This led to major-media coverage of the now-infamous "TIHDC meeting."

9/ It hadn't previously been discussed that Papadopoulos was at the first meeting of Trump's national security (NatSec) team at the Trump International Hotel in DC (TIHDC) on March 31, 2016. But he was there—a *week* after revealing himself as a Kremlin agent to the NatSec team.

10/ So when (per the NYT) Papadopoulos revealed in May '16 to an Australian diplomat that he knew Russia had committed major federal crimes against the U.S.—via computer theft and fraud—it was two months after he told Trump's NatSec team *and Trump* he was in contact with Russia.

11/ The nature of the contact that Papadopoulos revealed in March 2016 to Trump and his team was that he was a *legal* agent—in the law we'd say "special agent"—of the Kremlin. He was authorized to represent the Kremlin's interests in setting up a clandestine Trump-Putin meeting.

12/ That authority came to Papadopoulos—from Kremlin officials—through another Kremlin agent, Joseph Mifsud. This is why Papadopoulos, per public reporting by WP, identified himself to Trump on March 31, 2017 as a Kremlin "intermediary" designated not by Trump but by the Kremlin.

13/ As has been exhaustively detailed by WaPo (WP), Trump's NatSec team spent *two months*—from March to May of 2016—discussing how to handle Papadopoulos' "offer" of acting as an intermediary between Trump and Putin. They did *not* dismiss the offer in March, whatever some say.

14/ It was in the *middle* of this deliberation by the NatSec team that Papadopoulos, in April 2016, was told the Kremlin had committed federal computer crimes by stealing emails from a presidential candidate. Papadopoulos *knew* his team was then deliberating a Trump-Putin meet.

15/ During this period, Papadopoulos was *personally* hounding top Trump officials—per the WP—to give him more authority and allow him to travel abroad to arrange a Trump-Putin meeting. His April intelligence on the Clinton emails was *without a doubt* a card he would've played.

16/ So while Australian law enforcement knew of the stolen Clinton emails in May 2016, and the FBI knew by July 2016 (via Australia), it's a *lock* that Papadopoulos gave this intel to Trump and his campaign—from whom he wanted present authority *and* a future job—in April 2016.


























































































41 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
MEGA-THREAD: NYT bombshell Papadopoulos report, biggest Trump-Russia news since Flynn plea. (Original Post) L. Coyote Jan 2018 OP
#TrumpRussia 50 tweet MEGA-THREAD by Seth -- history's most explosive intel dossier ..... L. Coyote Jan 2018 #1
kick for visibility triron Jan 2018 #13
knr triron Jan 2018 #37
Unrolled thread: Trump aided Russian computer fraud an impeachable offense L. Coyote Jan 2018 #2
Unrolled thread: Papadopoulos claims to have had direct, significant contact with Trump on two .... L. Coyote Jan 2018 #3
Papadopoulos is a cooperating witness .... that's the YUUUGE story here!! L. Coyote Jan 2018 #10
I will agree genxlib Jan 2018 #4
I'm glad someone developed a ThreadReader. They deserve support. L. Coyote Jan 2018 #5
A mid-summers night dream perhaps?! Roland99 Jan 2018 #6
Not the easiest read, but well worth the effort Maeve Jan 2018 #7
Whoa! You've compiled an enormous amount of material here. triron Jan 2018 #8
And this is a tiny drop in Mueller's big bucket. L. Coyote Jan 2018 #9
So what is evidence Abramson refers to that Sater is cooperating triron Jan 2018 #11
Biggest thing is falsifiable pattern of lie surrounding Pap by Trump, Sessions and Clovis uponit7771 Jan 2018 #12
AND, reveal Papadopoulos triggered FBI investigation upsets months of Republican talking points L. Coyote Jan 2018 #14
Good Grief! triron Jan 2018 #15
yes, solid proof that it wasn't the dossier that started the investigation is something Russian News uponit7771 Jan 2018 #19
Bookmarking Duppers Jan 2018 #16
Yeah, same here. Wanna read and savor all this leisurely calimary Jan 2018 #22
Papadopoulos Told Diplomat About Russia's Emails Hack, Australian Newspaper Confirms L. Coyote Jan 2018 #17
OH JOY !! dweller Jan 2018 #18
VIDEO: Russians Saw Papadopoulos As "Way Into Donald Trump Campaign" L. Coyote Jan 2018 #20
As they say in the old Almond Joy commercials... calimary Jan 2018 #21
Too bad that people are so stupid they believe the FBI CAN "impeach trump" ... mr_lebowski Jan 2018 #23
"A sitting president can't be indicted" is a tenet that has not been adjudicated by any court. yodermon Jan 2018 #24
Agree. Besides, what has and is happening is unprecedented. triron Jan 2018 #25
The FBI can't do much to anyone. Prosecuters bring charges under our justice system, not cops. L. Coyote Jan 2018 #26
This thread is amazing. I can't believe it has so few kicks and recs. Squinch Jan 2018 #27
Shouldn't each kick include some additional info? Like "What was Papadopoulos drinking?" L. Coyote Jan 2018 #30
Oh, God. We've insulted everyone, and now we're going back and doing it again. Squinch Jan 2018 #31
Duty free retsina, mebbe? rec, nt Mc Mike Jan 2018 #35
Kicking again! Squinch Jan 2018 #28
And again! Squinch Jan 2018 #29
K&R Scurrilous Jan 2018 #32
Mueller will be announcing the LATEST INDICTMENTS at noon on Monday. L. Coyote Jan 2018 #33
Hope our nation can survive this idiocy and lunacy. triron Jan 2018 #36
kick again triron Jan 2018 #34
This story got push aside quickly by the new obstruction of justice evidence. L. Coyote Jan 2018 #38
Calling this shakespearean is like calling King Kong large and hairy and angry. lindysalsagal Jan 2018 #39
K&R and bookmarking. smirkymonkey Jan 2018 #40
Wow, I love this thread... So much here liberalla Jan 2018 #41

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
1. #TrumpRussia 50 tweet MEGA-THREAD by Seth -- history's most explosive intel dossier .....
Tue Jan 2, 2018, 11:44 AM
Jan 2018

There is the vast right-wing conspiracy at work, ultra-right globalism albeit without the Hitler/Mussulini/Emperor military treaty. Nonetheless, they pose the same threat level to democracy. With the far right conspiring with Putin, the threat level to the USA is higher than it was during WWII.




















































L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
2. Unrolled thread: Trump aided Russian computer fraud an impeachable offense
Tue Jan 2, 2018, 11:52 AM
Jan 2018
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/922649861073272832.html

(THREAD) This thread shows how Trump aided (18 U.S.C. § 2) Russian computer fraud (18 U.S.C. § 1030)—an impeachable offense. Please retweet.
1/ 18 U.S.C. § 2 prohibits aiding, abetting, or procuring a crime against the U.S. The penalty is the same as for the underlying offense.
2/ To be eligible for conviction for aiding, abetting or procuring (paying for) a crime under 18 U.S.C. § 2, certain conditions must be met.
3/ There must be a crime. You must know the crime is afoot beforehand. You must aid, abet, or procure it. And you must intend to facilitate.
4/ 17 intelligence agencies concur—Russia committed computer fraud in an effort to hack our election systems on or just before Election Day.
5/ So there are a series of dates for the relevant offenses—18 U.S.C. § 2—to include Election Day and the several days and weeks just prior.
6/ On August 17th, 2016, Donald Trump received his first-ever official briefing from the intelligence community as a presidential candidate.
7/ He was told "U.S. officials had drawn 'direct links' between Putin's government and recent hacks and email leaks."
....... 50 tweets ........


L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
3. Unrolled thread: Papadopoulos claims to have had direct, significant contact with Trump on two ....
Tue Jan 2, 2018, 11:59 AM
Jan 2018
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/929754259561775104.html

(THREAD) BREAKING: George Papadopoulos claims to have had direct, significant contact with Trump on two occasions the White House never disclosed—and possibly a one-on-one meeting. His claims prove Trump is lying about his relationship with Papadopoulos.
(2) After Papadopoulos' plea affidavit became public, Trump quickly attacked him as a "low-level" staffer, a "liar," someone "few people knew," and a mere "volunteer" (which many players on his campaign were, including his Campaign Manager, Paul Manafort).
Trump Belittles George Papadopoulos as ‘Low Level’ Adviser
In his first comment on George Papadopoulos, the president said “few people knew” him and that he “has already proven to be a liar.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/31/us/politics/trump-manafort-papadopoulos-mueller.html

(3) But Papadopoulos' claims of having spoken personally with Trump multiple times—and this does not include his appearance at a meeting of Trump's NatSec team at the Trump International Hotel on March 31, 2016—confirm, if true, that Trump has been lying about their relationship.
(4) Papadopoulos told Greek media—Athens daily Kathimerini, by reputation the New York Times of Greece—that he had a 5-minute phone interview with Trump several days prior to being announced as a member of Trump's National Security team on March 21, 2016: .....

............ 25 tweets .......

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
10. Papadopoulos is a cooperating witness .... that's the YUUUGE story here!!
Tue Jan 2, 2018, 01:01 PM
Jan 2018
This is the real story, Papadopoulos is “a cooperating witness” in Mueller's inquiry.





genxlib

(5,528 posts)
4. I will agree
Tue Jan 2, 2018, 12:07 PM
Jan 2018

That Seth Abramson does the best coverage of this subject and is excellent at linking a lot of minor information into a narrative. It remains to be seen how accurate he has been but he puts together the most logical framework for the entire clusterfuck.

But can I just say I fucking hate Twitter. I have always thought that 140 characters was a curse that would lead to shortened attention span and limited real communication. Almost anything worth saying takes more than 140 characters.

To work around these limitations, we have these infuriating threads no to mention the more normal abbreviations and short cuts that make the intended communication almost unidentifiable.

If it takes 100 tweets to say what you want then maybe Twitter isn't the right vehicle for you.

Now get off my lawn! rant over.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
5. I'm glad someone developed a ThreadReader. They deserve support.
Tue Jan 2, 2018, 12:15 PM
Jan 2018

Meanwhile, Twitter is very important today because it is what we have for instantaneous news. And it is searchable, with great advanced search too. So, if you want it noticed, you need to put it on Twitter. That's where we are at, so people cannot ignore it or they are likewise ignored.

It is all the more useful to have a twitter account even if you don't tweet. It enables a lot of features such as determining your feed be electing who to follow. I get my archaeology news via Twitter by following the lead reporters and scientists who share my interests. My Twitter feed is very apolitical, sprinkled with a bit of Scott Dworkin and my Senators only. I use the search feature to find political info via keywords.

Maeve

(42,282 posts)
7. Not the easiest read, but well worth the effort
Tue Jan 2, 2018, 12:26 PM
Jan 2018

Thank you for bringing this to DU especially for those of us not in the Twitterverse!
We need all the hope we can get and this indepth legal expertise provides better wings than RedBull!

triron

(22,006 posts)
11. So what is evidence Abramson refers to that Sater is cooperating
Tue Jan 2, 2018, 01:03 PM
Jan 2018

with Mueller? Have heard nothing myself about this from MSM (not that this is necessarily meaningful).

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
14. AND, reveal Papadopoulos triggered FBI investigation upsets months of Republican talking points
Tue Jan 2, 2018, 01:28 PM
Jan 2018


..... The idea that the entire investigation was based on the dossier, and nothing but the dossier, has been built up by Fox and other Trump organizations over weeks, and supported by statements from Trumpists like Florida Representative Ron DeSantis. Trump sprayed the whole thing out in a Christmas break twitter rant.


In truth, many items from the dossier have proven to be accurate, and former intelligence operative Christopher Steele continues to stand behind his work. ..... dKos .....


So now Trump has switched over to "Deep State" bullshit.
from: Trump is a paranoid "Deep State" conspiracy theorist.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210047698




uponit7771

(90,347 posts)
19. yes, solid proof that it wasn't the dossier that started the investigation is something Russian News
Tue Jan 2, 2018, 02:45 PM
Jan 2018

... organizations like FAUX will ignore.

calimary

(81,312 posts)
22. Yeah, same here. Wanna read and savor all this leisurely
Tue Jan 2, 2018, 03:03 PM
Jan 2018

and on laptop instead of phone. Bigger screen: much larger enjoyment!

dweller

(23,641 posts)
18. OH JOY !!
Tue Jan 2, 2018, 02:43 PM
Jan 2018

this ties in Steven Miller 👍🏻
I want to see that 💩 frog marched to the custody lockup ...

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
20. VIDEO: Russians Saw Papadopoulos As "Way Into Donald Trump Campaign"
Tue Jan 2, 2018, 02:49 PM
Jan 2018


Jan 2, 2018
A New York Times investigation is now disrupting an oft-repeated GOP criticism of the FBI's Russia inquiry. Matt Apuzzo explains how his sources revealed a tip from Australian intelligence that may originate the FBI's Russia probe with an incident involving a former Trump advisor, George Papadopoulos.

 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
23. Too bad that people are so stupid they believe the FBI CAN "impeach trump" ...
Tue Jan 2, 2018, 03:28 PM
Jan 2018

They cannot DO SHIT to him. Can't even bring formal charges or if they can, they cannot prosecute til he's out of office.


At this moment, CONGRESS are literally the ONLY ONES who can do shit to him ... and they're led by the GOP. DERP ...

yodermon

(6,143 posts)
24. "A sitting president can't be indicted" is a tenet that has not been adjudicated by any court.
Tue Jan 2, 2018, 04:01 PM
Jan 2018

It is a OLC Memo to the DOJ, from the Watergate era that everyone states as if it's settled law.
It may well prove to be the case, but it's not yet.

Good writeup here:
https://www.lawfareblog.com/mueller-bound-olcs-memos-presidential-immunity

triron

(22,006 posts)
25. Agree. Besides, what has and is happening is unprecedented.
Tue Jan 2, 2018, 04:22 PM
Jan 2018

A traitor is the WH is untouchable except by congress?
I certainly hope and pray this is not true.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
26. The FBI can't do much to anyone. Prosecuters bring charges under our justice system, not cops.
Tue Jan 2, 2018, 04:42 PM
Jan 2018

Police have the power to arrest people, to investigate crimes, etc. Within DoJ, FBI is under the AG and reports findings to USAs. FBI's intelligence activities are overseen by DNI.
First: Not every crime is a federal offense. Fed LEOs may make an arrest without obtaining a warrant; may obtain a warrant, or may delay making an arrest to gather additional evidence of guilt. Agents can request a subpoena from a grand jury with responsibility to investigate whether a crime has been committed. When a grand jury is involved, agents work with either a USA office or the DoJ.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
33. Mueller will be announcing the LATEST INDICTMENTS at noon on Monday.
Tue Jan 2, 2018, 09:20 PM
Jan 2018

Kidding!





UNROLLED: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/948358756852789248.html
1. We really have to think about this threat to the planet in terms of Trump's legitimacy. The Russians helped him win. Fact. It's there that we find the beginning of the debate over his legitimacy as president.
2. If Greg Weiner's New Year's Day op-ed in the New York Times is any indication, impeachment is in the air. A professor of political science at Assumption College, in Worcheser, Massachusetts, Weiner cautions Congressional Democrats against moving too far too fast. He writes:
3. "The prudent path forward lies somewhere between 'fiat justitia, ruat caelum" and 'Vox populi, vox Dei' — 'let justice be done though the heavens fall' on one hand and 'the voice of the people is the voice of God' on the other."
4. I agree, but let's set impeachment aside for a moment. (I'll come back to it.) Let's discuss what we can assess right now, namely President Donald Trump's legitimacy.
5. Legitimacy is the right to govern in the name of the people. It is an complex subject in democratic theory with no hard outlines, but one thing is certain. To argue against Trump's legitimacy, we need not prove beyond a doubt he committed a crime.
6. The starting point has been established already. The Russians helped the president win.
7. Whether Trump knew about Russian President Vladimir Putin's campaign to move public opinion against Hillary Clinton is secondary to the fact that Putin prosecuted just such a campaign.
8. We know how the Russian president did it and why. That a U.S. president is the beneficiary of interference might not be be enough to question that president's legitimacy, however.
9. Here's what might: Trump has not done much, if anything, to protect us from similar future attacks.
10. And you have to ask: Why?
11. Of course, the case against Trump's legitimacy is based on so much more than Putin's influence campaign. Over the weekend, the Times ran a bombshell report detailing why the FBI opened an investigation into the Trump campaign.
12. According to the report, foreign policy adviser George Papadopoulos let slip to an Australian official in May 2016 that the Russians had dirt on Clinton. Two months later, Wikileaks started releasing stolen emails. That's when the Australian government alerted the FBI.
13. How much Papadopoulos knew and how much he related to the Trump campaign is unknown. What is known is that Papadopoulos continued "for months to try to arrange some kind of meeting with Russian representatives, keeping senior campaign advisers abreast of his efforts,"
14. according to the Times report. The implication is that the Russian influence campaign might have been a coordinated effort.
15. The question of Trump's legitimacy should be kept at the center of our national debate because the president and allies are clouding the waters with pap about collusion not being a crime. During a recent interview with the Times, he repeated this point, again and again.
16. In fact, it's debatable – collusion probably is a crime – but it's beside the point. If a president colludes with a foreign power, is that president a legitimate president?
17. Fortunately, polling data helps answer that question. Based on Trump's aggregate approval rating (38 percent per FiveThirtyEight), I'm guessing a majority of Americans would say no, he's not a legitimate president.
18. Given the president's approval rating has not risen above 40 percent since May, when he fired James Comey, the former FBI director, I'm guessing most Americans doubted his legitimacy fairly early into his presidency.
19. The case against Trump's legitimacy appears to haunt him. During the Times interview, the president said "collusion" 23 times in barely coherent sentences. Some suggest he's projecting, signaling that yes, I colluded.
20. But you can say he's merely obsessed with legitimacy, especially the appearance of a strongman failing to vanquish his foe on his own.
21. Which brings me to impeachment, and legitimacy's role in it.
22. If Congressional Democrats pursue impeachment after the midterms, they must, as Weiner says, tread lightly.
23. But if they do not, we face a different problem with respect to legitimacy: future presidential candidates habitually seeking the aid of foreign powers to sabotage the democratic will.
24. Yes, impeaching Trump is risky. The Democrats could botch it and look like they're mounting a coup.
25. But not impeaching Trump might be risky, too.
26. Not impeaching him might in effect legitimize illegitimate behavior.
27. I don't know the answer to this paradox any more than anyone else. I just hope that with time comes clarity. We're going to need it.
28. Thanks for reading. Please share and argue. We need it. usnews.com/opinion/thomas…

triron

(22,006 posts)
36. Hope our nation can survive this idiocy and lunacy.
Wed Jan 3, 2018, 01:25 PM
Jan 2018

We may be in grave danger in more ways than one.

lindysalsagal

(20,692 posts)
39. Calling this shakespearean is like calling King Kong large and hairy and angry.
Fri Jan 5, 2018, 11:25 AM
Jan 2018

Honestly: It makes the head spin. If someone eventually stages a film, it will be 6 hours long, and require commentary and graphics to make it all make sense.

The only 2 things I can't believe are:
1. Why the entire cabinet, including the fired ones, isn't behind bars yet
2. Why the gop is willing to tolerate this and allow it to continue.

Just imagine any of this coming from a democrat: It would never be tolerated. Only the money keeps this dumpster fire floating down the river.

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