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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMEGA-THREAD: NYT bombshell Papadopoulos report, biggest Trump-Russia news since Flynn plea.
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2/ As has been discussed by @AshaRangappa_, the Steele Dossier alone would never have been enough to earn the FBI the July 2016 FISA warrant it was granted to monitor Carter Page. So attorneys and those in intelligence long ago knew the Dossier didn't launch the probe by itself.
3/ The NYT story gives usit appearsan additional piece of the warrant application the FBI filed to get a FISA warrant in July '16. But again, this is merely a pieceas was the Dossier. We know multiple intelligence agencies, not just Australia's, provided the FBI with evidence.
4/ So Trump's claim that the FBI grabbed a dossier of raw intelligence it hadn't yet confirmed and ran to the FISA court to secure a warrant to wiretap Americans connected to the Trump campaign has been laughably false from Day 1. And media has not done enough to underscore that.
5/ What we learn from the NYT (though again it's notcontrary to what the NYT seems to believe from its headlinewhat makes today's breaking news significant) is that the Australians informed U.S. law enforcement in July 2016 that Papadopoulos had made covert contact with Russia.
6/ In fact, while today's NYT story is indeed this month's second-biggest Trump-Russia revelationafter the December 1 guilty plea by Mike Flynnwhat makes it significant isn't that it rebuts Trump's false claims but that it may have *sealed the Trump-Russia collusion narrative*.
7/ If the NYT understood this, it would've led with it. But one must know the *prior* reporting on Papadopoulos to understand why today's news constitutes one of the biggest revelations in the 18-monthy history of the Trump-Russia probe. So I'll *briefly* summarize what we know.
8/ On September 2240 days before we learned Papadopoulos was cooperating with the Mueller probeI said that he had directly identified himself to Trump as a Kremlin agent in March 2016. This led to major-media coverage of the now-infamous "TIHDC meeting."
9/ It hadn't previously been discussed that Papadopoulos was at the first meeting of Trump's national security (NatSec) team at the Trump International Hotel in DC (TIHDC) on March 31, 2016. But he was therea *week* after revealing himself as a Kremlin agent to the NatSec team.
10/ So when (per the NYT) Papadopoulos revealed in May '16 to an Australian diplomat that he knew Russia had committed major federal crimes against the U.S.via computer theft and fraudit was two months after he told Trump's NatSec team *and Trump* he was in contact with Russia.
11/ The nature of the contact that Papadopoulos revealed in March 2016 to Trump and his team was that he was a *legal* agentin the law we'd say "special agent"of the Kremlin. He was authorized to represent the Kremlin's interests in setting up a clandestine Trump-Putin meeting.
12/ That authority came to Papadopoulosfrom Kremlin officialsthrough another Kremlin agent, Joseph Mifsud. This is why Papadopoulos, per public reporting by WP, identified himself to Trump on March 31, 2017 as a Kremlin "intermediary" designated not by Trump but by the Kremlin.
13/ As has been exhaustively detailed by WaPo (WP), Trump's NatSec team spent *two months*from March to May of 2016discussing how to handle Papadopoulos' "offer" of acting as an intermediary between Trump and Putin. They did *not* dismiss the offer in March, whatever some say.
14/ It was in the *middle* of this deliberation by the NatSec team that Papadopoulos, in April 2016, was told the Kremlin had committed federal computer crimes by stealing emails from a presidential candidate. Papadopoulos *knew* his team was then deliberating a Trump-Putin meet.
15/ During this period, Papadopoulos was *personally* hounding top Trump officialsper the WPto give him more authority and allow him to travel abroad to arrange a Trump-Putin meeting. His April intelligence on the Clinton emails was *without a doubt* a card he would've played.
16/ So while Australian law enforcement knew of the stolen Clinton emails in May 2016, and the FBI knew by July 2016 (via Australia), it's a *lock* that Papadopoulos gave this intel to Trump and his campaignfrom whom he wanted present authority *and* a future jobin April 2016.
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L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)There is the vast right-wing conspiracy at work, ultra-right globalism albeit without the Hitler/Mussulini/Emperor military treaty. Nonetheless, they pose the same threat level to democracy. With the far right conspiring with Putin, the threat level to the USA is higher than it was during WWII.
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triron
(22,006 posts)L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)1/ 18 U.S.C. § 2 prohibits aiding, abetting, or procuring a crime against the U.S. The penalty is the same as for the underlying offense.
2/ To be eligible for conviction for aiding, abetting or procuring (paying for) a crime under 18 U.S.C. § 2, certain conditions must be met.
3/ There must be a crime. You must know the crime is afoot beforehand. You must aid, abet, or procure it. And you must intend to facilitate.
4/ 17 intelligence agencies concurRussia committed computer fraud in an effort to hack our election systems on or just before Election Day.
5/ So there are a series of dates for the relevant offenses18 U.S.C. § 2to include Election Day and the several days and weeks just prior.
6/ On August 17th, 2016, Donald Trump received his first-ever official briefing from the intelligence community as a presidential candidate.
7/ He was told "U.S. officials had drawn 'direct links' between Putin's government and recent hacks and email leaks."
....... 50 tweets ........
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L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)(2) After Papadopoulos' plea affidavit became public, Trump quickly attacked him as a "low-level" staffer, a "liar," someone "few people knew," and a mere "volunteer" (which many players on his campaign were, including his Campaign Manager, Paul Manafort).
Trump Belittles George Papadopoulos as Low Level Adviser
In his first comment on George Papadopoulos, the president said few people knew him and that he has already proven to be a liar.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/31/us/politics/trump-manafort-papadopoulos-mueller.html
(3) But Papadopoulos' claims of having spoken personally with Trump multiple timesand this does not include his appearance at a meeting of Trump's NatSec team at the Trump International Hotel on March 31, 2016confirm, if true, that Trump has been lying about their relationship.
(4) Papadopoulos told Greek mediaAthens daily Kathimerini, by reputation the New York Times of Greecethat he had a 5-minute phone interview with Trump several days prior to being announced as a member of Trump's National Security team on March 21, 2016: .....
............ 25 tweets .......
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)Link to tweet
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genxlib
(5,528 posts)That Seth Abramson does the best coverage of this subject and is excellent at linking a lot of minor information into a narrative. It remains to be seen how accurate he has been but he puts together the most logical framework for the entire clusterfuck.
But can I just say I fucking hate Twitter. I have always thought that 140 characters was a curse that would lead to shortened attention span and limited real communication. Almost anything worth saying takes more than 140 characters.
To work around these limitations, we have these infuriating threads no to mention the more normal abbreviations and short cuts that make the intended communication almost unidentifiable.
If it takes 100 tweets to say what you want then maybe Twitter isn't the right vehicle for you.
Now get off my lawn! rant over.
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)Meanwhile, Twitter is very important today because it is what we have for instantaneous news. And it is searchable, with great advanced search too. So, if you want it noticed, you need to put it on Twitter. That's where we are at, so people cannot ignore it or they are likewise ignored.
It is all the more useful to have a twitter account even if you don't tweet. It enables a lot of features such as determining your feed be electing who to follow. I get my archaeology news via Twitter by following the lead reporters and scientists who share my interests. My Twitter feed is very apolitical, sprinkled with a bit of Scott Dworkin and my Senators only. I use the search feature to find political info via keywords.
Roland99
(53,342 posts)Maeve
(42,282 posts)Thank you for bringing this to DU especially for those of us not in the Twitterverse!
We need all the hope we can get and this indepth legal expertise provides better wings than RedBull!
triron
(22,006 posts)Perhaps you should send this to Rachel?
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)triron
(22,006 posts)with Mueller? Have heard nothing myself about this from MSM (not that this is necessarily meaningful).
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)Link to tweet
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In truth, many items from the dossier have proven to be accurate, and former intelligence operative Christopher Steele continues to stand behind his work. ..... dKos .....
So now Trump has switched over to "Deep State" bullshit.
from: Trump is a paranoid "Deep State" conspiracy theorist.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210047698
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triron
(22,006 posts)uponit7771
(90,347 posts)... organizations like FAUX will ignore.
Duppers
(28,125 posts)For when I've more time to thoroughly read the whole thread.
calimary
(81,312 posts)and on laptop instead of phone. Bigger screen: much larger enjoyment!
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)dweller
(23,641 posts)this ties in Steven Miller 👍🏻
I want to see that 💩 frog marched to the custody lockup ...
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)Jan 2, 2018
A New York Times investigation is now disrupting an oft-repeated GOP criticism of the FBI's Russia inquiry. Matt Apuzzo explains how his sources revealed a tip from Australian intelligence that may originate the FBI's Russia probe with an incident involving a former Trump advisor, George Papadopoulos.
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calimary
(81,312 posts)Indescribably Delicious!
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)They cannot DO SHIT to him. Can't even bring formal charges or if they can, they cannot prosecute til he's out of office.
At this moment, CONGRESS are literally the ONLY ONES who can do shit to him ... and they're led by the GOP. DERP ...
yodermon
(6,143 posts)It is a OLC Memo to the DOJ, from the Watergate era that everyone states as if it's settled law.
It may well prove to be the case, but it's not yet.
Good writeup here:
https://www.lawfareblog.com/mueller-bound-olcs-memos-presidential-immunity
triron
(22,006 posts)A traitor is the WH is untouchable except by congress?
I certainly hope and pray this is not true.
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)Police have the power to arrest people, to investigate crimes, etc. Within DoJ, FBI is under the AG and reports findings to USAs. FBI's intelligence activities are overseen by DNI.
First: Not every crime is a federal offense. Fed LEOs may make an arrest without obtaining a warrant; may obtain a warrant, or may delay making an arrest to gather additional evidence of guilt. Agents can request a subpoena from a grand jury with responsibility to investigate whether a crime has been committed. When a grand jury is involved, agents work with either a USA office or the DoJ.
Squinch
(50,955 posts)L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)Squinch
(50,955 posts)Mc Mike
(9,114 posts)Squinch
(50,955 posts)Squinch
(50,955 posts)Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)Kidding!
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1. We really have to think about this threat to the planet in terms of Trump's legitimacy. The Russians helped him win. Fact. It's there that we find the beginning of the debate over his legitimacy as president.
2. If Greg Weiner's New Year's Day op-ed in the New York Times is any indication, impeachment is in the air. A professor of political science at Assumption College, in Worcheser, Massachusetts, Weiner cautions Congressional Democrats against moving too far too fast. He writes:
3. "The prudent path forward lies somewhere between 'fiat justitia, ruat caelum" and 'Vox populi, vox Dei' 'let justice be done though the heavens fall' on one hand and 'the voice of the people is the voice of God' on the other."
4. I agree, but let's set impeachment aside for a moment. (I'll come back to it.) Let's discuss what we can assess right now, namely President Donald Trump's legitimacy.
5. Legitimacy is the right to govern in the name of the people. It is an complex subject in democratic theory with no hard outlines, but one thing is certain. To argue against Trump's legitimacy, we need not prove beyond a doubt he committed a crime.
6. The starting point has been established already. The Russians helped the president win.
7. Whether Trump knew about Russian President Vladimir Putin's campaign to move public opinion against Hillary Clinton is secondary to the fact that Putin prosecuted just such a campaign.
8. We know how the Russian president did it and why. That a U.S. president is the beneficiary of interference might not be be enough to question that president's legitimacy, however.
9. Here's what might: Trump has not done much, if anything, to protect us from similar future attacks.
10. And you have to ask: Why?
11. Of course, the case against Trump's legitimacy is based on so much more than Putin's influence campaign. Over the weekend, the Times ran a bombshell report detailing why the FBI opened an investigation into the Trump campaign.
12. According to the report, foreign policy adviser George Papadopoulos let slip to an Australian official in May 2016 that the Russians had dirt on Clinton. Two months later, Wikileaks started releasing stolen emails. That's when the Australian government alerted the FBI.
13. How much Papadopoulos knew and how much he related to the Trump campaign is unknown. What is known is that Papadopoulos continued "for months to try to arrange some kind of meeting with Russian representatives, keeping senior campaign advisers abreast of his efforts,"
14. according to the Times report. The implication is that the Russian influence campaign might have been a coordinated effort.
15. The question of Trump's legitimacy should be kept at the center of our national debate because the president and allies are clouding the waters with pap about collusion not being a crime. During a recent interview with the Times, he repeated this point, again and again.
16. In fact, it's debatable collusion probably is a crime but it's beside the point. If a president colludes with a foreign power, is that president a legitimate president?
17. Fortunately, polling data helps answer that question. Based on Trump's aggregate approval rating (38 percent per FiveThirtyEight), I'm guessing a majority of Americans would say no, he's not a legitimate president.
18. Given the president's approval rating has not risen above 40 percent since May, when he fired James Comey, the former FBI director, I'm guessing most Americans doubted his legitimacy fairly early into his presidency.
19. The case against Trump's legitimacy appears to haunt him. During the Times interview, the president said "collusion" 23 times in barely coherent sentences. Some suggest he's projecting, signaling that yes, I colluded.
20. But you can say he's merely obsessed with legitimacy, especially the appearance of a strongman failing to vanquish his foe on his own.
21. Which brings me to impeachment, and legitimacy's role in it.
22. If Congressional Democrats pursue impeachment after the midterms, they must, as Weiner says, tread lightly.
23. But if they do not, we face a different problem with respect to legitimacy: future presidential candidates habitually seeking the aid of foreign powers to sabotage the democratic will.
24. Yes, impeaching Trump is risky. The Democrats could botch it and look like they're mounting a coup.
25. But not impeaching Trump might be risky, too.
26. Not impeaching him might in effect legitimize illegitimate behavior.
27. I don't know the answer to this paradox any more than anyone else. I just hope that with time comes clarity. We're going to need it.
28. Thanks for reading. Please share and argue. We need it. usnews.com/opinion/thomas
triron
(22,006 posts)We may be in grave danger in more ways than one.
triron
(22,006 posts)L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)And the Trump-Bannon distraction. Everyone loves a freak show.
THREAD: Today's NYT revelations aid Mueller's obstruction investigation.
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lindysalsagal
(20,692 posts)Honestly: It makes the head spin. If someone eventually stages a film, it will be 6 hours long, and require commentary and graphics to make it all make sense.
The only 2 things I can't believe are:
1. Why the entire cabinet, including the fired ones, isn't behind bars yet
2. Why the gop is willing to tolerate this and allow it to continue.
Just imagine any of this coming from a democrat: It would never be tolerated. Only the money keeps this dumpster fire floating down the river.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)liberalla
(9,249 posts)Bookmarking
Thanks Coyote!