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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat to know about the "raw water" trend
What to know about the raw water trendA new Silicon Valley craze could make people sick.
By Jen Kirbyjen.kirby@vox.com Jan 4, 2018, 3:50pm EST
Untreated, unfiltered raw water is apparently the hot new fad around Silicon Valley, or so says a recent New York Times trend piece.
People are eschewing tap and bottled water in favor of an icy cold glass of untreated spring water so-called raw or unprocessed water which proponents say has beneficial minerals that are removed from treated or filtered water, and doesnt include chemicals in tap water, such as fluoride, or move through infrastructure such as lead pipes.
Some are paying a lot more for the luxury of drinking water that might not have fluoride but could still have chemicals from pesticides and dangerous bacteria.
Also animal poop.
The raw water trend such as it is fits into a larger movement that, first, embraces everything natural as healthy, and second, creates savvy entrepreneurs who find ways to make a lot of money from it.
https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/1/4/16846048/raw-water-trend-silicon-valley
samnsara
(17,635 posts)...cuz that's my everyday go to drinkin' water!
The water is very well filtered as it percolates through the soil into the water table.
Drinking surface water, except when necessary, is never a good idea.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)I've seen dumb ass people put a well in at fifteen feet.
SCantiGOP
(13,873 posts)There are pills you can put into raw water to kill bacteria, and simple filters you can use or you can boil it. He knew that, but he had always enjoyed drinking out of fresh, clean flowing streams.
He said he stopped that when, having just had a long drink of cool water from a stream, he walked upstream around the next bend and saw an elk that had been dead for days and serving as a buffet for buzzards lying in the water.
Didn't hurt him, but he said it was weeks before he could convince himself that he was not feeling the onset on some deadly disease.
bluecollar2
(3,622 posts)The water table in South Florida isn't all that deep.
Signed:
Dumb ass person
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)If your screens are below that, it's okay.
If your total depth is 15 feet and your screens start at 5 or 10 ft bgs, you are essentially drinking surface water
EX500rider
(10,858 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)get rich.
I'll be passing on untreated/unfiltered water myself though.
brush
(53,868 posts)like those who drink "raw" water will most likely get.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)where the Floridian aquifer breaks the surface. Wonder if there's a market for dehydrated raw swamp water.
Polly Hennessey
(6,804 posts)from the mountains. Been drinking it for years.
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)but some of them are just stupid.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,339 posts)Instead, he went for juice cleanses, herbal tea and acupuncture.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)...which, he believed, would prevent his body from ever generating body odor, so he no longer needed to bathe...
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)There were few good options.
Prognosis - Hirshberg Foundation for Pancreatic Cancer Research
pancreatic.org/pancreatic-cancer/about-the-pancreas/prognosis/
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,339 posts)Jobs had a pancreatic nueroendocrine tumor (PNET) - not adenocarcinoma. He had a type of cancer that is very slow growing and highly survivable with surgery. The tricky part is you should cut it out because it doesn't respond to chemo or radiation (or juice cleanses and enemas).
My partner and I just celebrated his 5 year mark cancer free after he had major surgery to remove his (PNET), the tail of his pancreas, his spleen and his gallbladder. The spleen goes because it shares a blood supply with the pancreas. The gallbladder goes because it will get irritated from the surgery.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)My grandfather died of pancreatic cancer, so I have a personal interest in this, too.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)exception for those who have no other choice of course.
I remember when what seemed a fad hit communities across the nation during the Reagan era and stupidity became irresponsibility to the point of immorality. And stuck.
Our well-run California community was typical. We had good water (some people checked), but the kind who preferred to believe "government" equals "bad" switched to bottled water without ever marching on city hall, leaving hundreds of thousands of others, including children, to be poisoned by what was in their minds "bad" water. And many have been doing so ever since.
Mariana
(14,860 posts)all her friends refused to drink the local tap water because they thought it was "contaminated" and "polluted", and she believed them and wanted us to buy bottled water for her. I kept an aquarium at the time, so i asked her if the water was so toxic, why isn't it making the fish sick? C'mon, girl, think.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Our then-teen wasn't thrilled with us that I can recall, about that or anything, but his kids are growing up drinking tap water. (And giving him back some of his own as they approach puberty. )
Testing water isn't expensive. When we made an offer on the land we purchased here in the south, I sent its well water to a lab outside our country for analysis without needing to say where it was from. Though there's no industrial, there is some agriculture just a few miles up-watershed. It came back just as our county said, though.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)I fill up my bottles using tap water from my filtered fridge. Then carbonate it with my soda stream.
Sometimes I add lemon or lime. Sometimes Bourbon.
Never understood paying more for water than for gasoline.
Only time I pay for bottled water in when overseas.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)(Water v gas prices made me think of demand.)
As fresh water resources become depleted, more and more regions are outlawing private wells and even moving to meter use of water from existing ones, notably including California with its severe water problems in most of the state.
Any connection between increasingly tighter access to "raw" water and this new fad for it? I'm guessing yes.
WhiteTara
(29,722 posts)and does contain minerals, mostly calcium and iron. We use a whole house filter and filter drinking water through the carbon filter in the kitchen. It tastes wonderful and so far, no problems.....I've lived off municipal water systems for almost my entire life and I love "raw" water.
kcr
(15,320 posts)Not well water.
WhiteTara
(29,722 posts)Thanks for the clarification. That is stupid.
kcr
(15,320 posts)It's like someone's idea of a joke, but apparently, it's real. I hope they're exaggerating how much of a thing it is.
WhiteTara
(29,722 posts)Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)Or is that included in the price?
kcr
(15,320 posts)Yum!
DBoon
(22,397 posts)and of course have no immunity against cholera or other water borne diseases
Response to DBoon (Reply #53)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Even back then dad had our water checked periodically by a lab which is a pretty good idea.
WhiteTara
(29,722 posts)regularly is part of the drill too.
Caliman73
(11,744 posts)While I would much prefer not to drink water out of lead pipes and over chlorinated water, the whole "raw" movement is pretty ridiculous. People say, "Our ancestors survived on unfiltered food for generations" Yes, they did, DESPITE unfiltered food.
Should also point out that our ancestors lived to the ripe old age of 25.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)I miss the good ole days of Cholera outbreaks. All natural for sure!
tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)Now I'm hungry.
genxlib
(5,535 posts)Now I can't get the Book of Mormon out of my head.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,965 posts)Can't remember who said it on Twitter or what it was in response to, but I laughed a lot when I read it.
Hekate
(90,793 posts)Caliman73
(11,744 posts)I am not saying that you are one hundred percent going to get sick drinking spring water or drinking raw milk, but there is evidence showing that pasteurization, sanitation, and hygiene practices dramatically increased life expectancy and quality of life.
There is a middle ground between over use of chemicals, and just picking crap up off the ground and ingesting it. Right?
tblue37
(65,488 posts)NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)I kept hearing about how good it was, and how pasteurization destroys the flavor, so I got a bottle of raw milk and drank it alongside milk that is pasteurized from a local co-op. Tasted the same - It absolutely didn't taste any different. Needless to say, I'll take my pasteurized milk every day.
NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)But people did live to similar ages as today. Even Psalm 90:10 bears that out - "Our days may come to seventy years, or eighty, if our strength endures; yet the best of them are but trouble and sorrow, for they quickly pass, and we fly away."
The key today is far more of us make it.
tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)That some people lived hundreds of years and the Earth was created in 6 days?
NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)And instead selected a book of poetic songs. If that doesn't do it for you, the science of Anthropology, mainly skeleton study, and the historical writings of the Greeks and Romans show that they too lived to their 70s.
In fact, the natural Ancient Greek lifespan and current natural US lifespan are only a few years different.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)grew up drinking right out from the creek behind our house for years and years.
We would go bike riding around the back roads. Get thirsty? Stop walk down under a bridge and drink right out where it is running clear over the rocks
I guess most people don't have that opportunity
Little fish poop never hurt anybody!
Caliman73
(11,744 posts)even drinking their municipal water that is treated. You build up a certain immunity to the bacteria in water. Doesn't mean that it should become standard practice
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)Just incredible
Stinky The Clown
(67,818 posts)bluestarone
(17,030 posts)purchased underground aquifers out there in California? Not sure about this. Also heard residents of Cal. can't even save rain water?
Caliman73
(11,744 posts)South America in the Amazon Basin was the big one. It was in a documentary called Water Wars. Good film. Scary.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)In fact many municipalities encourage rain barrels as a means of water conservation. These sorts of inaccurate stories normally get ginned up by the far right.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Some states, including California, have restrictions on how you can legally collect rainwater. Under some circumstances, it is illegal, but most aren't going to be affected by those restrictions.
Kolesar
(31,182 posts)Their cows get alfalfa shipped over from America.
Meanwhile, agricultural workers wells run dry.
jmowreader
(50,562 posts)This is the guy who was "thrown in jail for 30 days" for the heinous crime of "collecting rainwater on his property."
And then you see what his "rainwater collection ponds" look like...
Yes, folks, that is a man-made lake. It's being held back with a 20-foot-high dam, it has been stocked with fish, and he filled it by diverting a stream into it.
Bettie
(16,126 posts)maybe I should...nah, I like not being sick!
haele
(12,676 posts)We tried very hard not to let her drink from puddles unless we knew where the water came from, and even then, not a lot.
Haele
Vinca
(50,303 posts)dembotoz
(16,832 posts)parasite from drinking water in africa by use of a filter
Hekate
(90,793 posts)...and is spread through drinking water. God bless Jimmy and Roslyn Carter.
Maeve
(42,288 posts)As an historical interpreter for the 1800's, I researched water-borne diseases. It really isn't that difficult a concept...
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,433 posts)Several birds, one stone.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)"Flint Water...The Flavor of the Upper Midwest. One sip and you'll be 'keeping shit REAL' ".
xor
(1,204 posts)Cirque du So-What
(25,980 posts)but when I do, I still lead others astray.
Years ago, some friends and I visited Multnomah Falls in Oregon and climbed to the top of the plateau. We hiked into the woods alongside the stream for a half-mile or so, and I got the bright idea of taking a drink. After all, I reasoned that it was freshly-melted glacier water. My friends cautioned against it, but my argument that the water contained a very small proportion of bear whiz won out. Everyone drank deeply. A couple of days later, the others came down with explosive diarrhea; the cause was determined to be cryptosporidium. Of course, Yours Truly skated without any illness whatsoever, to the chagrin of the others.
tymorial
(3,433 posts)People who buy into these fads are the perfect example of confirmation bias. They only believe information which validates their preconceived notions that raw, natural, organic products are absolutely better for them. To hell with the fact that raw water could contain fecal coliforms, Legionella, and enteroviruses. They won't believe it. No, instead they will believe the celebrity spokesperson, the sponsored content, the supposed medical professional (quack) that will promote these products while taking a kickback.
It is infuriating and it is the same behavior/belief structure which causes people to become unnecessarily infected by viruses which are easily preventable.
Retrograde
(10,156 posts)Most of the creeks here are dry much of the year. The one near me has some water in it after this week's rain, but it also has a lot of mud. I suppose you can filter the mud out, but I don't know about all the animal droppings (it's home to raccoons and skunks during the dry season), or whatever it picks up going through the homeless encampment upstream.
Further south, the streams up in the hills do have a high mineral content, and a lot of those minerals are mercury compounds - before the advent of electronics mercury mining was a lucrative industry (mercury was needed to process all that gold ore coming down from the mountains) and no one ever bothered to clean up the old mine tailings (and mercury occurs naturally in the creeks anyway, just in smaller doese).
No, this "raw water" has to be imported from far away, because it's apparently much better the more expensive it is and the bigger environmental footprint it has.
(BTW, most of Silicon Valley - by which I mean the original one in Santa Clara county, not that place at the tip of the Peninsula where all the jumped-up app builders (who wouldn't recognize a silicon chip if it came in a plate of nachos) hang out - has pretty blah water: it's well water replenished by the winter rains. Here in the northern part of the county we usually get Hetch Hetchy water - the same thing that comes out of the taps in San Francisco. Snowmelt runoff from the Sierras, caught in granite basins, and IMHO one of the best municipal water supplies anywhere).
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)pnwmom
(108,994 posts)It's hard enough having to give up gluten -- which is in almost all processed foods and most medicines -- without being mocked for it.
RobinA
(9,894 posts)anyone is mocking people who actually HAVE celiac, they are mocking the hundreds of thousands of people who suddenly developed a gluten sensitivity since stopping gluten became became all the rage. I would think people with celiac would be burned that these people too.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)Why should anyone be? Thanks to the "fad," a lot more foods are labeled now -- which used to be one of the biggest nightmares. The 1% with Celiac weren't powerful enough to get food manufacturers to want to label, but the larger group now is.
Also, people with Celiac are aware that there are other people besides Celiacs who should not eat gluten. People with dermatitis herpetiformis, people with gluten-sensitive Crohn's, with elevated liver enzymes caused by gluten -- and others are all insulted by those who joke about gluten-free and insist that only people with Celiac are somehow deserving.
In my case, I don't have Celiac; I have ulcerative colitis that is gluten sensitive. But I often say I have Celiac just to avoid all the cracks about the gluten free fad. I wouldn't have gone on this diet unless the doctor had first put me through testing for cancer, parasites, and everything else he could think of that might be causing the bleeding. I was not happy when he did the blood tests and told me I had gluten sensitivity, because I had a friend with Celiac and I knew how hard the diet was. But the diet worked -- the bleeding stopped -- so now I'm one of the millions on the new fad diet.
Retrograde
(10,156 posts)who'll slap a "gluten free" label on anything that stands still long enough, even if it wouldn't have naturally had gluten in it. I saw gluten-free butter last week: my all-time favorite is gluten-free shampoo.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)There are laws defining what can have a gluten free label and what can't.
And some foods that SHOULD be gluten free are prepared on the same production lines as foods that aren't, and so are contaminated in the processing. So we need to know that even a food that should be naturally gluten free has remained that way through the processing. And so I appreciate the clear labels -- and the bigger, the better, so I don't have to waste time looking all over 6 sides of a box.
Also, there is a severe form of gluten sensitivity that affects the skin and is called dermatitis herpetiformis that causes severe itching and blistering. One of my uncles had it and it affected his whole body, including his scalp. He was on the diet but it's hard to avoid gluten completely (when he was alive labeling was much worse than now) and he had outbreaks sometimes. He would have been happy to use a shampoo that was gluten free, but he died before they produced any products like that.
genxlib
(5,535 posts)That "natural" as experienced by our ancestors is not the same as what we find in nature today.
Our modern world has introduced all kinds of pollutants into nature in even remote areas.
Even if you were on the trail with Lewis and Clark and were OK with drinking a little Bear pee, that is not the same as the water you would be getting today.
LeftInTX
(25,555 posts)Would you like some parasites with your tetnus?
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Homeopathic believers too I bet.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)ProfessorGAC
(65,168 posts)So, going through a filter does not remove minerals. It takes out undissolved hardness, some amount of iron oxides (again, undissolved) and even the undissolved stuff has to be large enough to get stopped by the filter which is likely 1 micron absolute.
Activated carbon cartridges remove organics, but not inorganic salts fully in solution.
To remove these other salts, one would need to run through a mixed bed resin to affect ion exchange, but most municipal water supplies don't do that on grand scale because - - - - THEY WANT TO KEEP THE MINERALS IN THE WATER!
So the very notion that this "raw" water is better because the minerals are all there is pseudoscientific nonsense.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)Ion exchange will do it, GAC won't.
You kind of said that but I put it succinctly 😀
ProfessorGAC
(65,168 posts)It an adsorption mechanism, and filtration is, well, just filtration
That said, some carbon or IE systems are likely marketed as filters. So it could be confusing to lots of people
a kennedy
(29,707 posts)considered raw??? Ugh....... still sick over the mess in Michigan.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)Raw water? Really! I hear they are paying $20/gallon
Codeine
(25,586 posts)that Im sure somebody will be along to defend raw water, because delicious fecal coliforms know no political boundaries.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)People consume all sorts of food items that aren't cooked, many of which carry far more inherent risks than raw milk. There's all sorts of actual advantages to raw milk which isn't the case with so-called "raw water".
Codeine
(25,586 posts)and barnyard coliforms in your glass of liquid not biologically fit to pass human lips.
Got Listeria?
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Simply because you don't drink raw milk? If so, you might want to better educate yourself. I suspect you've probably consumed something raw in the last month which contains a far greater risk of listeria than raw milk. If you want to live your life in constant irrational fear of pathogens, by all means cook everything you eat including all of your fresh fruits and vegetables. Meanwhile more rational people will be happily enjoying the advantages of consuming certain things raw in their diet.
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)There is way to much lead in US water from pipes. Don't drink water at restaurants, public buildings, etc.
Doctors who prescribe medication that requires drinking more water need to warn their patients that their lead levels may rise unless they drink pure water.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Drinking distilled water is a lousy idea regardless of whether you can afford it or not. The human body isn't designed to drink "pure" water and if that's all you drink you are putting yourself at far greater risk.
High lead levels are a problem only in a small minority of water supplies and can be easily remedied at home with very simple and cheap methods of filtration.
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)What a life!
Codeine
(25,586 posts)but it kept getting mixed up with the bong water.
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)Paladin
(28,272 posts)If you choose to drink untreated spring water, you deserve any afflictions you develop.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)All natural though!
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Last edited Sun Jan 7, 2018, 04:24 PM - Edit history (1)
"I need you to come in this weekend and mop the waste off the floors, 'k?...about 9 am, both days...that'd be great".
Kaleva
(36,343 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)We have standards here, sir.
brooklynite
(94,728 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)a couple times. That should catch em.
haele
(12,676 posts)Especially in locations where there started to be intense agricultural, dense populations, light manufacturing, and resource extraction (i.e., mining, lumber mills...)
The groundwater - including artesian well water and spring water - started becoming polluted and stayed polluted for a long, long time.
Even fresh spring water should undergo some form of straining before it's drunk.
Unless I know exactly where this "raw water" is coming from - like, to the GPS location measured in the "foot" settings - I'm not going to drink it. And I'm certainly not going to purchase it - even if it's advertised as coming from the Hetch-Hetchy reservoir or Lake Tahoe - or some other "Fresh Mountain Spring Water".
If it's transported to me in any method - even a bucket from upstream - I want it filtered and/or boiled before I drink it.
Haele
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)less able to ward off viruses and disease. I don't think the notion is valid, but lots of people adhere to it.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Hassin Bin Sober
(26,339 posts)For instance. Debilitating polio infections happened because people weren't exposed to the virus at very young age.
RobinA
(9,894 posts)once on a whim and I was quite surprised by what I learned. My uncle had polio and was significantly impaired as a result, although he accommodated quite well. I had heard from my parents about quarantines and all. Turns out, most of the population was actually exposed to polio in those days and didnt get sick or got a mild illness they probably went by with little fanfare. It was only a small percentage of those exposed who actually got so ill. I had no idea.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,339 posts)When she was in her 40s, 50s, 60s.
She eventually had to wear braces on her ankles. Finally one doctor said "I would bet my medical license you had polio as a kid"
It explained a lot. Never diagnosed.
What I read is pre 1900s EVERYBODY got it as an infant. It wasn't untill we cleaned up the sewage kids didn't get it until later when it did more damage.
It was mainly a middle class problem during the bad outbreaks too. Poor people were more likely to have been exposed at a younger age There was even a myth black people were immune.
Takket
(21,625 posts)corporations being claimed and trampled on.
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(108,192 posts)Such as giardia.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)Her parents were from India and had intentions of returning there to live later they went back several times a year.
Her mom started making her and her brother drink small amount of water direct from the river daily in order to build their immune systems to the kind of things found in the river, so that when they went to India they wouldnt get sick from the water there.
She said it worked and was common practice among the Indian community in the area. No clue if it did actually work or they just got lucky on trips to India and assumed it did.