I assume he feels very betrayed by you?

I don't know if I would use that word. I don't think he thought about this in any way. I literally think you go in there and say, "I'm writing a book," and they go, "Oh. A book." It's like a cloak of invisibility. And then also they would do this thing that would be like, "Oh, this is off the record." And I would say, "I would like to use it for the book." And they would say, "Well, when does that come out?" And I would say, "Next year." "Oh, oh, yeah, OK, fine."

But in your initial meetings with the president, there had to be a certain level of cordiality because he trusted you.

Totally. Well, you don't get the feeling that he has thought of anything other than himself at any given time. Certainly he was very open with me, accessible with me, and then he started to talk. Did he ever listen to me for one second? I never got that feeling. He just talks at you. "Blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm great. I'm great. I'm great. I'm great." And then he sort of says, "And you're great, too. And I'm really great." It's like that. Any conversation with him is, not to overuse the word surreal, but it's surreal.

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But that was something you were criticized for in left-leaning media, and now with the book it seems you whiplashed the other way.

Again, I just wrote what I thought and what I heard. That's one thing about the book: There really aren't any politics in the book. I have no side here. I'm just interested in how people relate to one another, their ability to do their jobs and a much less abstract picture of this world than whatever the political thesis may or may not be.

So there was no long con here. You were just a neutral observer?

Completely. I would have been perfectly happy to have written a contrarian book about how interesting and potentially hopeful and novel Trump-as-president was. I would have written a positive Trump book. And I thought it would be a fun thing to do — an audacious way to look at the world. But then I got in there and I thought, "Oh my God." Day after day it just seemed that this guy was more dysfunctional. It wasn't even me seeing that. It was listening to the people around him.

What to you was the single most surprising thing about the president?

Almost every new thing you heard was astounding, from his John Dean obsession to the way he screamed at people to locking himself in his bedroom. Again and again and again and again it was something you thought, "This is not how it is supposed to be."

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It seems many are saying Trump's hopeless behind his back.

One-hundred percent of them are saying that.

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What's the situation with the movie and TV rights to the book?

Let me not answer that at the moment. I can say at this point no deal, but lots of things happening.

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