Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

babylonsister

(171,066 posts)
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 04:42 PM Jan 2018

The Russia Scandal Is Looking More Like Watergate All the Time

http://prospect.org/article/russia-scandal-looking-more-watergate-all-time

The Russia Scandal Is Looking More Like Watergate All the Time
Paul Waldman
January 15, 2018

Like Trump, Nixon retained the support of most Republicans as the scandal unfolded.



snip//

Depending on when you want to start the clock, we're about a year and half into the Russia scandal. But Watergate took a long time to unravel, too. The break-in that started it occurred in June 1972; Richard Nixon didn't resign until August 1974. And as the scandal spooled out, it gradually became apparent that not only was Richard Nixon deeply corrupt, he had surrounded himself with figures who were equally corrupt. Haldeman, Ehrlichman, Mitchell, Hunt, Colson, Liddy—when there were laws to be broken or schemes to enact, they were ready and willing.

I'm certain that when we look back on the Trump administration, we'll see something similar, that not only is Trump himself corrupt, but many of the people around him are as well. Can you imagine Barack Obama hiring someone like Paul Manafort—long known as one of the sleaziest operators in Washington, even before we knew about the money laundering—to run his campaign? Of course not. And he's just the beginning. Donald Trump has spent a lifetime acting as though the rules don't apply to him, because they usually don't. And so he has attracted people who feel the same way, or have ambitions to act as though they can get away with anything they want, whether we're talking about his real estate dealings or his campaign.

snip//

And just as Bob Woodward was told by Deep Throat to "Follow the money" (in the Hollywood version of the Watergate story, though not in real life), Special Counsel Robert Mueller is most definitely following the money, both Trump's and that of people around him. As the founders of Fusion GPS recently wrote, in their investigation of Trump, "we found widespread evidence that Mr. Trump and his organization had worked with a wide array of dubious Russians in arrangements that often raised questions about money laundering." If that part of the investigation doesn't lead to the discovery of multiple crimes, it will be a shock.

When we marvel at Trump supporters who will excuse almost anything the president does, we should remember that until very close to the end of his presidency, Nixon retained the support of most Republicans, who convinced themselves that the scandal was overblown and the president was being hounded unfairly by partisan opponents and a biased press. Had it not been for the release of the White House tapes with their incontrovertible evidence of Nixon's guilt, he might well have been able to continue in office.

There are some differences between the Russia scandal and Watergate, of course. Part of what protected Nixon for a long time was the fact the idea that the president of the United States was essentially running a criminal organization out of the Oval Office seemed too outlandish to believe. That is not the situation today. Given the Grand Guignol that each moment of the Trump presidency presents us with, there is almost no level of corruption or illegality on the part of this president that will come as a surprise if it is revealed. We remember Watergate, and we know how a story like this one can end.
23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The Russia Scandal Is Looking More Like Watergate All the Time (Original Post) babylonsister Jan 2018 OP
may look like it, but in truth, far far worse NRaleighLiberal Jan 2018 #1
Yes, which would explain why it might take babylonsister Jan 2018 #2
Yes, I'm afraid that incontrovertible evidence will not be enough this time. lagomorph777 Jan 2018 #3
Proof of intent? SWBTATTReg Jan 2018 #4
"The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons," SharonAnn Jan 2018 #14
Thanks for the two quotes...love them... SWBTATTReg Jan 2018 #22
That pundit is wrong or lying. Saviolo Jan 2018 #12
Thanks for that. Data points to calibrate the spin-o-meter. lagomorph777 Jan 2018 #17
You can count on pundits to muddy the water Saviolo Jan 2018 #20
Not required in the legal wording, but very helpful in the public eye. lagomorph777 Jan 2018 #21
Yep... IthinkThereforeIAM Jan 2018 #10
Far worse than Watergate Botany Jan 2018 #5
This is much worse. We were attacked and our White House infiltrated by a Russian plant. onecaliberal Jan 2018 #6
So, if this is bigger than just a US scandal - if it involves active foreign actors, what do we need erronis Jan 2018 #7
Watergate was a picnic compared to this train wreck! BigmanPigman Jan 2018 #8
My post from December 2016: Chipper Chat Jan 2018 #9
Watergate was a 2-bit attempt to cheat to win an election BumRushDaShow Jan 2018 #11
+1 dalton99a Jan 2018 #19
Nixon had a country at war too bucolic_frolic Jan 2018 #13
Trump won't go away quietly. lpbk2713 Jan 2018 #15
Until the day he does. He wants to do nothing but golf already, and is completely out of his element L. Coyote Jan 2018 #16
K&R, Nixon still had 24% approval when he resigned uponit7771 Jan 2018 #18
Thank god for 1st Amendment rights and freedon of the Press, specifically WaPo BoneyardDem Jan 2018 #23

babylonsister

(171,066 posts)
2. Yes, which would explain why it might take
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 04:46 PM
Jan 2018

longer to unravel. I'm good with the occasional indictments until Mueller and Co. get there.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
3. Yes, I'm afraid that incontrovertible evidence will not be enough this time.
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 04:48 PM
Jan 2018

Just yesterday I heard some idiot pundit opining that obstruction of justice will be hard to prove because it requires proving intent.

I was thinking, "Gosh imagine how easy it would be if your defendant had gone on national TV and confessed his intent..."

https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/president-trump-this-russia-thing-is-a-made-up-story-941962819745

SWBTATTReg

(22,130 posts)
4. Proof of intent?
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 04:53 PM
Jan 2018

Multiple times that he did not collude? People tend to start looking a little more closely when someone tends to overemphasize their supposed innocence...

SharonAnn

(13,776 posts)
14. "The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons,"
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 08:14 PM
Jan 2018

The quotation is, "The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons," and it was Ralph Waldo Emerson who said it.

Dr. Samuel Johnson said, "If he does really think that there is no distinction between virtue and vice, why, sir, when he leaves our houses let us count our spoons."

Saviolo

(3,282 posts)
12. That pundit is wrong or lying.
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 07:43 PM
Jan 2018

Obstruction of Justice is NOT a specific intent crime.

Seth Abramson did a thread about this back in June when the obstruction charges were starting to float around. I corralled some of the tweets into this discussion:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029175368

Saviolo

(3,282 posts)
20. You can count on pundits to muddy the water
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 10:53 AM
Jan 2018

They'll make the truth as murky as possible in order to rile outrage on the right when a charge of obstruction comes down. "But you can't prove his intent!!!" they'll wail, while at the root of it all, intent is not required in an obstruction charge.

Stay alert!

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
21. Not required in the legal wording, but very helpful in the public eye.
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 12:07 PM
Jan 2018

Fortunately, it's easily proven with Turd's own public statements.

IthinkThereforeIAM

(3,076 posts)
10. Yep...
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 07:38 PM
Jan 2018

... the, "water", left the, "gate", decades ago. This is how numb the original, "sin", has made the American populace to corruption. That even now, brass tack details and even admissions in court, there are people in denial of it.

Botany

(70,510 posts)
5. Far worse than Watergate
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 04:55 PM
Jan 2018

<"we found widespread evidence that Mr. Trump and his organization had worked with a wide array of dubious Russians in arrangements that often raised questions about money laundering." If that part of the investigation doesn't lead to the discovery of multiple crimes, it will be a shock. >

Trump is hooked into Putin and he is the Godfather of the maybe the largest crime syndicate in history
and Fox News and much of the GOP are going right along with this international mob.

onecaliberal

(32,861 posts)
6. This is much worse. We were attacked and our White House infiltrated by a Russian plant.
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 04:55 PM
Jan 2018

Absolutely nothing has been done to stop this from occurring again.

erronis

(15,286 posts)
7. So, if this is bigger than just a US scandal - if it involves active foreign actors, what do we need
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 07:06 PM
Jan 2018

The US can do its own internal investigations and can point fingers at many other multi-nationals individuals, companies, and even regimes, but what would it take to make the global environment safer against this type of attack?

Obviously the US DoJ, FBi, CIA, DCI, etc. aren't totally independent and have lots of axes that need grinding.

Can the U.N. be part of the solution? How is Interpol brought in? Is the International Court of Justice something that can be asked to research our problem?

Perhaps we could set an example of looking for justice by asking the world to have a voice. Realizing that most of the world has its own forms of corruption and that they may be well intertwined with our own.

The ICIJ (International Consortium of Investigative Journalists) may be the most independent body available that I know of. Still subject to agendas and personalities.

BigmanPigman

(51,607 posts)
8. Watergate was a picnic compared to this train wreck!
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 07:10 PM
Jan 2018

To tell you the truth, I thought he would have been assassinated by someone long before now. He has made so many enemies in this country and around the world and who knows what Putin is (friend or foe?). He should be eating all of his meals from fast food take out in case of food poisoning. I sure would be if I were him as well as wearing a bullet proof vest 24/7.

Chipper Chat

(9,679 posts)
9. My post from December 2016:
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 07:25 PM
Jan 2018



This is really beginning to resemble Watergate.

I remember the early Washington Post rumblings which were loudly discredited by Nixon mouthpiece Ron Ziegler and other republicans. Finally, after more and more damning crap trickled out there were enough pressured republican senators to agree to hearings which were TELEVISED. The whole country watched. We all knew Nixon ordered the break in and it was just a matter of time before the truth came out (thank you Mr. Magnetic Tape).
However, I don't have the same hopefulness about today's dilemma. The Trump Machine is very ruthless and powerful. I guess the question now is does the public care enough about the Good ol' USA to turn against the beloved Con Man? And do our GOP representatives (including the "college electors" care enough about the future of our country to do the right thing and demand action? Or is loyalty to the coming dictator more important?.




29





42 replies, 2861 views

Reply This is really beginning to resemble Watergate. (Original post)
Chipper Chat Dec 2016 OP

LineReply Good assessment.
triron Dec 2016 #1

LineReply "I am not a Pooty Poot Puppet." - Comrade Casino (R)
Achilleaze Dec 2016 #2

LineLineReply DUZY
Chipper Chat Dec 2016 #3

LineReply During Watergate - We Had A Press That Had Journalistic Integrity......
global1 Dec 2016 #4

LineLineReply We also had some republicans in government with actual principles who acted
enough Dec 2016 #5

LineLineLineReply We are sorely lacking in both areas today, sadly.
CanonRay Dec 2016 #8

LineLineReply Republicans with integrity are practically nonexistent today
virtualobserver Dec 2016 #6

LineLineLineReply Keith Olbermann is out there - very brave and outspoken on GQ
Chipper Chat Dec 2016 #13

LineLineLineLineReply Which is why Keith...
LovingA2andMI Dec 2016 #32

LineLineLineLineNew Reply Which is why Keith...
LovingA2andMI Dec 2016 #37

LineLineReply What we have now may even be better...
Blanks Dec 2016 #7

LineLineReply A stark contrast in conscience between two Indiana politicians:
Chipper Chat Dec 2016 #9

LineLineNew Reply There are many journalists with integrity today
La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #41

LineReply Trump is such a loose cannon and not politically savvy so I imagine if his fingerprints are on this
Glimmer of Hope Dec 2016 #10

LineReply republicans learned many valuable lesson from watergate
unblock Dec 2016 #11

LineReply Much, much worse than Watergate. n/t
MBS Dec 2016 #12

LineLineReply +1,000 !!
CountAllVotes Dec 2016 #14

LineLineLineReply I've been angry and disgusted, plenty of time.
MBS Dec 2016 #15

LineLineLineLineReply We have every right to be terrified
CountAllVotes Dec 2016 #18

LineReply I remember Watergate...
kentuck Dec 2016 #16

LineReply If evidence of bugging of
Wellstone ruled Dec 2016 #17

LineReply knr. nt
LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #19

LineReply I remember Watergate this is x10. Nixon didn't conspire with an enemy
doc03 Dec 2016 #20

LineLineReply well, didn't he have secret negotiations on the Vietnam war -- some secret deal to end the war
Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #25

LineLineReply Nixon did that in 1968, with Claire Chennault and van Thieu. LBJ had the
KingCharlemagne Dec 2016 #29

LineLineLineNew Reply right-- thanks for the reminder!
Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #35

LineReply Much worse that Watergate
jimlup Dec 2016 #21

LineReply A big difference is Republicans control both houses...
C Moon Dec 2016 #22

LineLineReply yep... fascism, here we come!!!
Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #26

LineLineReply That would give them President Pence, though
NewJeffCT Dec 2016 #30

LineReply far worse than watergate but media is worse than then
JI7 Dec 2016 #23

LineReply By the time this is over, Watergate will seem like a quaint political incident.
Paladin Dec 2016 #24

LineLineReply Nixon was plenty creepy with the Vietnam war going on and the cold war backdrop
Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #28

LineLineLineNew Reply Nixon was a shrewd politician, with a great deal of government experience.
Paladin Dec 2016 #33

LineLineLineLineNew Reply He was a mentally ill, treasonous bastard and worse than Trump because he had a brain.
duffyduff Dec 2016 #38

LineLineLineLineLineNew Reply I'll just restrain myself and suggest you back the fuck off. (nt)
Paladin Dec 2016 #39

LineReply Watergate was a trial run, so to speak...
IthinkThereforeIAM Dec 2016 #27

LineReply No, as bad as that was
relayerbob Dec 2016 #31


BumRushDaShow

(129,055 posts)
11. Watergate was a 2-bit attempt to cheat to win an election
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 07:42 PM
Jan 2018

THIS is a million times worse because the "attempt to cheat" to win an election had an end result that would allow engagement in and solidifying of future monetary gains via illegal foreign interactions.

lpbk2713

(42,757 posts)
15. Trump won't go away quietly.
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 08:23 PM
Jan 2018



No matter how much evidence is piled up against him.
He couldn't GAF what the voters think at this point.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
16. Until the day he does. He wants to do nothing but golf already, and is completely out of his element
Mon Jan 15, 2018, 08:55 PM
Jan 2018

trying to fill the roll of president. The worst part for him, times when he needs to act but has no script. He's used to making it up and having someone cut the bullshit out on the screening room floor.

 

BoneyardDem

(1,202 posts)
23. Thank god for 1st Amendment rights and freedon of the Press, specifically WaPo
Tue Jan 16, 2018, 01:10 PM
Jan 2018

We only get snippets, but they are doing due diligence, hard hitting investigative reporting and letting the public know what they can. Realizing we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg and how fucked we already feel about it all...can't even imagine what the eventual Trump movie will look like.

This is worse than Watergate, there are so many levels, and Trump has already loaded up the courts to help him out and Trump has Faux News to direct the RW propaganda narrative. I don't remember Nixon stacking all the decks like this. I hope to god that all of this corruption is publisized. I honestly think it will be the only thing that can hold back the White, Nazi hoards from going violent.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»The Russia Scandal Is Loo...