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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Russia Scandal Is Looking More Like Watergate All the Time
http://prospect.org/article/russia-scandal-looking-more-watergate-all-timeThe Russia Scandal Is Looking More Like Watergate All the Time
Paul Waldman
January 15, 2018
Like Trump, Nixon retained the support of most Republicans as the scandal unfolded.
snip//
Depending on when you want to start the clock, we're about a year and half into the Russia scandal. But Watergate took a long time to unravel, too. The break-in that started it occurred in June 1972; Richard Nixon didn't resign until August 1974. And as the scandal spooled out, it gradually became apparent that not only was Richard Nixon deeply corrupt, he had surrounded himself with figures who were equally corrupt. Haldeman, Ehrlichman, Mitchell, Hunt, Colson, Liddywhen there were laws to be broken or schemes to enact, they were ready and willing.
I'm certain that when we look back on the Trump administration, we'll see something similar, that not only is Trump himself corrupt, but many of the people around him are as well. Can you imagine Barack Obama hiring someone like Paul Manafortlong known as one of the sleaziest operators in Washington, even before we knew about the money launderingto run his campaign? Of course not. And he's just the beginning. Donald Trump has spent a lifetime acting as though the rules don't apply to him, because they usually don't. And so he has attracted people who feel the same way, or have ambitions to act as though they can get away with anything they want, whether we're talking about his real estate dealings or his campaign.
snip//
And just as Bob Woodward was told by Deep Throat to "Follow the money" (in the Hollywood version of the Watergate story, though not in real life), Special Counsel Robert Mueller is most definitely following the money, both Trump's and that of people around him. As the founders of Fusion GPS recently wrote, in their investigation of Trump, "we found widespread evidence that Mr. Trump and his organization had worked with a wide array of dubious Russians in arrangements that often raised questions about money laundering." If that part of the investigation doesn't lead to the discovery of multiple crimes, it will be a shock.
When we marvel at Trump supporters who will excuse almost anything the president does, we should remember that until very close to the end of his presidency, Nixon retained the support of most Republicans, who convinced themselves that the scandal was overblown and the president was being hounded unfairly by partisan opponents and a biased press. Had it not been for the release of the White House tapes with their incontrovertible evidence of Nixon's guilt, he might well have been able to continue in office.
There are some differences between the Russia scandal and Watergate, of course. Part of what protected Nixon for a long time was the fact the idea that the president of the United States was essentially running a criminal organization out of the Oval Office seemed too outlandish to believe. That is not the situation today. Given the Grand Guignol that each moment of the Trump presidency presents us with, there is almost no level of corruption or illegality on the part of this president that will come as a surprise if it is revealed. We remember Watergate, and we know how a story like this one can end.
NRaleighLiberal
(60,014 posts)babylonsister
(171,066 posts)longer to unravel. I'm good with the occasional indictments until Mueller and Co. get there.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Just yesterday I heard some idiot pundit opining that obstruction of justice will be hard to prove because it requires proving intent.
I was thinking, "Gosh imagine how easy it would be if your defendant had gone on national TV and confessed his intent..."
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/president-trump-this-russia-thing-is-a-made-up-story-941962819745
SWBTATTReg
(22,130 posts)Multiple times that he did not collude? People tend to start looking a little more closely when someone tends to overemphasize their supposed innocence...
SharonAnn
(13,776 posts)The quotation is, "The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons," and it was Ralph Waldo Emerson who said it.
Dr. Samuel Johnson said, "If he does really think that there is no distinction between virtue and vice, why, sir, when he leaves our houses let us count our spoons."
SWBTATTReg
(22,130 posts)Saviolo
(3,282 posts)Obstruction of Justice is NOT a specific intent crime.
Seth Abramson did a thread about this back in June when the obstruction charges were starting to float around. I corralled some of the tweets into this discussion:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029175368
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Saviolo
(3,282 posts)They'll make the truth as murky as possible in order to rile outrage on the right when a charge of obstruction comes down. "But you can't prove his intent!!!" they'll wail, while at the root of it all, intent is not required in an obstruction charge.
Stay alert!
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Fortunately, it's easily proven with Turd's own public statements.
IthinkThereforeIAM
(3,076 posts)... the, "water", left the, "gate", decades ago. This is how numb the original, "sin", has made the American populace to corruption. That even now, brass tack details and even admissions in court, there are people in denial of it.
Botany
(70,510 posts)<"we found widespread evidence that Mr. Trump and his organization had worked with a wide array of dubious Russians in arrangements that often raised questions about money laundering." If that part of the investigation doesn't lead to the discovery of multiple crimes, it will be a shock. >
Trump is hooked into Putin and he is the Godfather of the maybe the largest crime syndicate in history
and Fox News and much of the GOP are going right along with this international mob.
onecaliberal
(32,861 posts)Absolutely nothing has been done to stop this from occurring again.
erronis
(15,286 posts)The US can do its own internal investigations and can point fingers at many other multi-nationals individuals, companies, and even regimes, but what would it take to make the global environment safer against this type of attack?
Obviously the US DoJ, FBi, CIA, DCI, etc. aren't totally independent and have lots of axes that need grinding.
Can the U.N. be part of the solution? How is Interpol brought in? Is the International Court of Justice something that can be asked to research our problem?
Perhaps we could set an example of looking for justice by asking the world to have a voice. Realizing that most of the world has its own forms of corruption and that they may be well intertwined with our own.
The ICIJ (International Consortium of Investigative Journalists) may be the most independent body available that I know of. Still subject to agendas and personalities.
BigmanPigman
(51,607 posts)To tell you the truth, I thought he would have been assassinated by someone long before now. He has made so many enemies in this country and around the world and who knows what Putin is (friend or foe?). He should be eating all of his meals from fast food take out in case of food poisoning. I sure would be if I were him as well as wearing a bullet proof vest 24/7.
Chipper Chat
(9,679 posts)This is really beginning to resemble Watergate.
I remember the early Washington Post rumblings which were loudly discredited by Nixon mouthpiece Ron Ziegler and other republicans. Finally, after more and more damning crap trickled out there were enough pressured republican senators to agree to hearings which were TELEVISED. The whole country watched. We all knew Nixon ordered the break in and it was just a matter of time before the truth came out (thank you Mr. Magnetic Tape).
However, I don't have the same hopefulness about today's dilemma. The Trump Machine is very ruthless and powerful. I guess the question now is does the public care enough about the Good ol' USA to turn against the beloved Con Man? And do our GOP representatives (including the "college electors" care enough about the future of our country to do the right thing and demand action? Or is loyalty to the coming dictator more important?.
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42 replies, 2861 views
Reply This is really beginning to resemble Watergate. (Original post)
Chipper Chat Dec 2016 OP
LineReply Good assessment.
triron Dec 2016 #1
LineReply "I am not a Pooty Poot Puppet." - Comrade Casino (R)
Achilleaze Dec 2016 #2
LineLineReply DUZY
Chipper Chat Dec 2016 #3
LineReply During Watergate - We Had A Press That Had Journalistic Integrity......
global1 Dec 2016 #4
LineLineReply We also had some republicans in government with actual principles who acted
enough Dec 2016 #5
LineLineLineReply We are sorely lacking in both areas today, sadly.
CanonRay Dec 2016 #8
LineLineReply Republicans with integrity are practically nonexistent today
virtualobserver Dec 2016 #6
LineLineLineReply Keith Olbermann is out there - very brave and outspoken on GQ
Chipper Chat Dec 2016 #13
LineLineLineLineReply Which is why Keith...
LovingA2andMI Dec 2016 #32
LineLineLineLineNew Reply Which is why Keith...
LovingA2andMI Dec 2016 #37
LineLineReply What we have now may even be better...
Blanks Dec 2016 #7
LineLineReply A stark contrast in conscience between two Indiana politicians:
Chipper Chat Dec 2016 #9
LineLineNew Reply There are many journalists with integrity today
La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #41
LineReply Trump is such a loose cannon and not politically savvy so I imagine if his fingerprints are on this
Glimmer of Hope Dec 2016 #10
LineReply republicans learned many valuable lesson from watergate
unblock Dec 2016 #11
LineReply Much, much worse than Watergate. n/t
MBS Dec 2016 #12
LineLineReply +1,000 !!
CountAllVotes Dec 2016 #14
LineLineLineReply I've been angry and disgusted, plenty of time.
MBS Dec 2016 #15
LineLineLineLineReply We have every right to be terrified
CountAllVotes Dec 2016 #18
LineReply I remember Watergate...
kentuck Dec 2016 #16
LineReply If evidence of bugging of
Wellstone ruled Dec 2016 #17
LineReply knr. nt
LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #19
LineReply I remember Watergate this is x10. Nixon didn't conspire with an enemy
doc03 Dec 2016 #20
LineLineReply well, didn't he have secret negotiations on the Vietnam war -- some secret deal to end the war
Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #25
LineLineReply Nixon did that in 1968, with Claire Chennault and van Thieu. LBJ had the
KingCharlemagne Dec 2016 #29
LineLineLineNew Reply right-- thanks for the reminder!
Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #35
LineReply Much worse that Watergate
jimlup Dec 2016 #21
LineReply A big difference is Republicans control both houses...
C Moon Dec 2016 #22
LineLineReply yep... fascism, here we come!!!
Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #26
LineLineReply That would give them President Pence, though
NewJeffCT Dec 2016 #30
LineReply far worse than watergate but media is worse than then
JI7 Dec 2016 #23
LineReply By the time this is over, Watergate will seem like a quaint political incident.
Paladin Dec 2016 #24
LineLineReply Nixon was plenty creepy with the Vietnam war going on and the cold war backdrop
Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #28
LineLineLineNew Reply Nixon was a shrewd politician, with a great deal of government experience.
Paladin Dec 2016 #33
LineLineLineLineNew Reply He was a mentally ill, treasonous bastard and worse than Trump because he had a brain.
duffyduff Dec 2016 #38
LineLineLineLineLineNew Reply I'll just restrain myself and suggest you back the fuck off. (nt)
Paladin Dec 2016 #39
LineReply Watergate was a trial run, so to speak...
IthinkThereforeIAM Dec 2016 #27
LineReply No, as bad as that was
relayerbob Dec 2016 #31
BumRushDaShow
(129,055 posts)THIS is a million times worse because the "attempt to cheat" to win an election had an end result that would allow engagement in and solidifying of future monetary gains via illegal foreign interactions.
dalton99a
(81,513 posts)bucolic_frolic
(43,173 posts)that gave him cover for awhile
lpbk2713
(42,757 posts)No matter how much evidence is piled up against him.
He couldn't GAF what the voters think at this point.
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)trying to fill the roll of president. The worst part for him, times when he needs to act but has no script. He's used to making it up and having someone cut the bullshit out on the screening room floor.
uponit7771
(90,346 posts)BoneyardDem
(1,202 posts)We only get snippets, but they are doing due diligence, hard hitting investigative reporting and letting the public know what they can. Realizing we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg and how fucked we already feel about it all...can't even imagine what the eventual Trump movie will look like.
This is worse than Watergate, there are so many levels, and Trump has already loaded up the courts to help him out and Trump has Faux News to direct the RW propaganda narrative. I don't remember Nixon stacking all the decks like this. I hope to god that all of this corruption is publisized. I honestly think it will be the only thing that can hold back the White, Nazi hoards from going violent.