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NRaleighLiberal

(60,022 posts)
Mon Jan 22, 2018, 10:29 PM Jan 2018

Slate - "The Democrats Are Losers. Democrats in Congress fail, again, to deliver for an active,

energized base"

By OSITA NWANEVU

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/01/the-democrats-are-losers.html

About one year ago, an estimated 4.2 million people participated in the Women’s March, which is thought to have been the largest demonstration in American history—several times larger than the massive protests of the Vietnam War Moratorium of 1969. By the end of 2017, thousands of anti-Trump protests across the country brought a total of between 5.2 million and 8 million people to the streets. This past weekend’s marches again brought out hundreds of thousands of participants. These protests are only the most visible manifestations of broad and seething discontent with our president and those advancing his agenda in Washington, discontent that has also encouraged tens of thousands of people to consider running for office and prompted hundreds of thousands of phone calls to Congress last year from those hoping to defeat the repeal of Obamacare, one of the key items on the president’s legislative agenda.

Through all of this, the Democratic Party has exhibited little of the confidence and daring one would expect from a party on the right side of what may well be an unprecedented movement in the history of American politics. Monday was no different. “After several discussions, offers, counteroffers, the Republican leader and I have come to an arrangement,” Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, the ranking Democrat in Washington, announced this morning. “We will vote today to reopen the government to continue negotiating a global agreement with the commitment that if an agreement isn’t reached by February the 8th, the Senate will immediately proceed to consideration of legislation dealing with DACA.”

So ended, in Schumer’s words, the “Trump shutdown.” This moniker is a not insignificant bit of obfuscation on the Democrats’ part. It is of course true, as Schumer and others have said over and over again, that the Republican Party has the presidency, the House, and the Senate, making the shutdown the first to occur with ostensible one-party control of government. It is also true that moving forward on a funding bill required 60 votes in the Senate that the Republican Party did not have, even with the support of vulnerable shutdown-wary Democrats. The vast majority of Senate Democrats, who did not lend them that support, are responsible for the shutdown. Those Democrats have spent the past three days blaming it on Republican procedural incompetence rather than making a straightforward, honest case to the American people that the shutdown’s true purpose—securing a DACA deal—was worth it. “It’s the president’s and congressional Republicans’ responsibility to govern,” Schumer said in a speech Saturday. “It’s their responsibility to keep the doors open and the lights on around here.” The word for this is cowardice.

There may well be another shutdown in the coming weeks. But an opportunity was blown Monday.
Luckily for Democrats, polls repeatedly showed that the American people backed their framing. A Public Policy Polling/Center for American Progress poll released Sunday found that 52 percent of Americans blamed President Trump and Republicans for the shutdown. It also found that 58 percent of Americans wanted to include Dreamers as part of a package deal to reopen the government. Forty-two percent of Americans, the poll says, would have strongly supported this.

snip - more at the link.

(Again - don't shoot the messenger - but reading around the progressive web, few share much good about what just happened.)

51 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Slate - "The Democrats Are Losers. Democrats in Congress fail, again, to deliver for an active, (Original Post) NRaleighLiberal Jan 2018 OP
Republicans dont wallow in self pity like this RandySF Jan 2018 #1
So we should just stop reading things people write? Esp on progressive sites? NRaleighLiberal Jan 2018 #2
Sometimes, yes RandySF Jan 2018 #3
Yup renegade000 Jan 2018 #4
When they push defeatist arguments that don't help our situation.... fallout87 Jan 2018 #18
Yeah, we would be better off not read Slate. Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #22
Another, in a series... Scurrilous Jan 2018 #5
Fuck Slate. milestogo Jan 2018 #6
Post removed Post removed Jan 2018 #7
Slate is NOT a progressive site. RandySF Jan 2018 #8
Wikipedia says Slate covers news "from a liberal perspective", but I suppose you have information Atticus Jan 2018 #13
Ever read Nickey Kaus? RandySF Jan 2018 #14
Might you mean "MICKEY" Kaus who left Slate 8 years ago? nt Atticus Jan 2018 #16
The author of this peace has tons of tweets all critical of Democrats...on every subject...so Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #21
Which author of which "peace" are you talking about? nt Atticus Jan 2018 #24
Can't challenge the party line that Schumer did us a favor JackInGreen Jan 2018 #9
Thank you. nt Atticus Jan 2018 #12
This shutdown was bad from the getgo MaryMagdaline Jan 2018 #10
I, for one, am shocked---SHOCKED to hear that people daring to call themselves progressives snd Atticus Jan 2018 #11
Yeah if more of us did this...the Dreamer would be safe...the purity pony riders Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #20
I suspect a good number of these self-identifed refused to vote for the Democratic nominee in 2016. still_one Jan 2018 #30
I know, right? Cary Jan 2018 #32
The first reaction of some people is to immediately bash fellow Democrats EffieBlack Jan 2018 #34
Yeah, right! Cary Jan 2018 #31
Is it possible that you truly don't know that my post simply quoted what others here had said Atticus Jan 2018 #40
Why be defensive? Cary Jan 2018 #42
Sure, you have the right to criticize me or any other poster. Just don't make shit up and try Atticus Jan 2018 #43
Except I didn't "make shit up." Cary Jan 2018 #45
Sure you did. Where did I say that Democrats suck or urge anyone to vote Republican? You are Atticus Jan 2018 #47
Where did I say that you said that? Cary Jan 2018 #50
My grandson got his health insurance guaranteed nini Jan 2018 #15
I agree. The guy who wrote the article hates Democrats...more than the GOP in my opinion. sure Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #19
I'm fuming at this stuff on here nini Jan 2018 #23
Me too. I am thrilled about CHIP...and the money was gone in many states...it simply couldn't wait. Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #25
yep nini Jan 2018 #29
As Larry O'D Said Me. Jan 2018 #41
That is true...and we may not be able to save DACA...I am hopeful but realistic about it. Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #26
Many of the same people who are pissed because the Dems didn't keep kids like your grandson in limbo EffieBlack Jan 2018 #36
No kidding nini Jan 2018 #39
Sure...I am going to listen to this Democrat Party hater. Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #17
LMAO SHRED Jan 2018 #27
Gee, I wonder how many of those self-identified progressives voted third party or refused to vote still_one Jan 2018 #28
Thank you. They are not "true progressives" Wwcd Jan 2018 #33
I agree still_one Jan 2018 #35
I keep asking them what they think would have been achieved with a continued shut down EffieBlack Jan 2018 #37
The answer I heard the most, when they give me one is it should be done because of principle, not if still_one Jan 2018 #44
For some people, politics is about making a point, not actually accomplishing anything EffieBlack Jan 2018 #46
Stop with the scolding: Democrats NEED Independents appal_jack Jan 2018 #38
One word: numbers. Vinca Jan 2018 #48
The "liberal press" and the CHIP spin Cosmocat Jan 2018 #49
This reminds me of negotiations when I was working. lkinwi Jan 2018 #51

RandySF

(59,279 posts)
3. Sometimes, yes
Mon Jan 22, 2018, 10:44 PM
Jan 2018

We need to push ahead and not worry about every publication. Besides, Slate is Mickey Kaus’ Site.

Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Atticus

(15,124 posts)
13. Wikipedia says Slate covers news "from a liberal perspective", but I suppose you have information
Mon Jan 22, 2018, 11:19 PM
Jan 2018

they don't.

Demsrule86

(68,696 posts)
21. The author of this peace has tons of tweets all critical of Democrats...on every subject...so
Mon Jan 22, 2018, 11:42 PM
Jan 2018

I really don't care what he thinks.

JackInGreen

(2,975 posts)
9. Can't challenge the party line that Schumer did us a favor
Mon Jan 22, 2018, 11:06 PM
Jan 2018

No matter how much it feels like he sold us out for a 3week hiatus during which the terminal fucking of our federal systems will continue.

It feels like little finger saying 'just a little more time, they've agreed to negotiate, but keep your skirts up for them"

Atticus

(15,124 posts)
11. I, for one, am shocked---SHOCKED to hear that people daring to call themselves progressives snd
Mon Jan 22, 2018, 11:09 PM
Jan 2018

Democrats say they are unhappy with the way the shut-down was ended! Guess they are " not acknowledging reality" and are riding around on their "purity ponies" while they "bash" true Democrats. I hope they are aware that we here will always applaud WHATEVER our party does because to openly question a decision once it is made "drives voters away".


Demsrule86

(68,696 posts)
20. Yeah if more of us did this...the Dreamer would be safe...the purity pony riders
Mon Jan 22, 2018, 11:41 PM
Jan 2018

have only themselves to blame.

still_one

(92,422 posts)
30. I suspect a good number of these self-identifed refused to vote for the Democratic nominee in 2016.
Tue Jan 23, 2018, 12:16 AM
Jan 2018

I also suspect the media is going out of their way to push this outlier view

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
34. The first reaction of some people is to immediately bash fellow Democrats
Tue Jan 23, 2018, 12:25 AM
Jan 2018

On Friday night, before the shutdown was even official, memes started circulating trashing the red-state senators who voted for cloture.

Too bad they don't spend as much of their time, resources and energy going after the real enemy as they do trying to destroy people on our side.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
31. Yeah, right!
Tue Jan 23, 2018, 12:19 AM
Jan 2018

Democrats suck!

VOTE REPUBLICAN!



Seriously, look at what you wrote. You make a better argument for Republicans than any actual Republican that I know.

Atticus

(15,124 posts)
40. Is it possible that you truly don't know that my post simply quoted what others here had said
Tue Jan 23, 2018, 12:35 AM
Jan 2018

about ME? How you twist that into "Democrats suck" and "vote Republican" is beyond me. Why stop there? If you are going to make things up, why not go all out? Say that I'm a serial killer or that I barbecue beagle pups in my back yard!

Seriously, why tell such obvious lies about someone?

Cary

(11,746 posts)
42. Why be defensive?
Tue Jan 23, 2018, 12:40 AM
Jan 2018

You fight so hard for your right to be critical of Democrats. Do I not have an equal right to be critical of You?

Atticus

(15,124 posts)
43. Sure, you have the right to criticize me or any other poster. Just don't make shit up and try
Tue Jan 23, 2018, 12:52 AM
Jan 2018

criticizing the opinion, not the person. I don't have to argue my Democratic credentials or bona fides with anyone.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
45. Except I didn't "make shit up."
Tue Jan 23, 2018, 01:15 AM
Jan 2018

Thank you for.giving me permission to criticize you.

Now answer my question: why are you so defensive?

Atticus

(15,124 posts)
47. Sure you did. Where did I say that Democrats suck or urge anyone to vote Republican? You are
Tue Jan 23, 2018, 09:01 AM
Jan 2018

obviously unconcerned with the truth.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
50. Where did I say that you said that?
Tue Jan 23, 2018, 09:27 AM
Jan 2018

Two can play that game.

Now for the third time, why are you so defensive? Why not own your words and stand behind your implications?

Demsrule86

(68,696 posts)
19. I agree. The guy who wrote the article hates Democrats...more than the GOP in my opinion. sure
Mon Jan 22, 2018, 11:40 PM
Jan 2018

Trump revokes the DACA but it is our fault.

nini

(16,672 posts)
23. I'm fuming at this stuff on here
Mon Jan 22, 2018, 11:46 PM
Jan 2018

I know so many parents who don't have to worry about their sick kids anymore. Yes, we have to save DACA but to get anything out of those evil repubs is a win.

Demsrule86

(68,696 posts)
25. Me too. I am thrilled about CHIP...and the money was gone in many states...it simply couldn't wait.
Mon Jan 22, 2018, 11:51 PM
Jan 2018

And who know if it would have survived a long shutdown....for now those kids are safe...they were held hostage and are now released. It is a good thing.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
36. Many of the same people who are pissed because the Dems didn't keep kids like your grandson in limbo
Tue Jan 23, 2018, 12:30 AM
Jan 2018

without health insurance also saw no problem telling immigrants, minorities, Muslims, poor people, etc. that the election of a xenophobic, authoritarian racist was a small price to pay in order to foment some kind of revolution they didn't ask for.

still_one

(92,422 posts)
28. Gee, I wonder how many of those self-identified progressives voted third party or refused to vote
Tue Jan 23, 2018, 12:07 AM
Jan 2018

the Democratic nominee in 2016

The act of keeping the government closed would not have made DACA happen, it certainly would not have made CHIPS funding happen, and it very likely would make 2018 even more precarious.

What some progressives don't understand is that cutting one's nose off to spite one's face does win anything.

Now the real fight for DACA and 2018 begins

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
37. I keep asking them what they think would have been achieved with a continued shut down
Tue Jan 23, 2018, 12:32 AM
Jan 2018

And get no satisfactory answers - they just keep saying things like "we needed to force them to" do thus and so - as if a minority party is in a position to strong-arm the majority into doing anything.

still_one

(92,422 posts)
44. The answer I heard the most, when they give me one is it should be done because of principle, not if
Tue Jan 23, 2018, 12:58 AM
Jan 2018

it will accomplish anything or not

In some instances that does apply, however, in this situation it is so obvious that the act of shutting down the government would make things even worse. There would be no chance of funding for CHIPs, DACA wouldn't occur either way, and it could very well make the already formidable challenge of the 2018 election even more difficult.

 

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
38. Stop with the scolding: Democrats NEED Independents
Tue Jan 23, 2018, 12:33 AM
Jan 2018

The majority of the voting-eligible public are either not affiliated with either Party, or did not vote at all during the last election.

SCOLDING most of America from your high horse will NOT bring them into the fold here.

-app

Cosmocat

(14,575 posts)
49. The "liberal press" and the CHIP spin
Tue Jan 23, 2018, 09:06 AM
Jan 2018

I have seen a half dozen mind blowing rationalizations for why getting CHIP off the table was some kind of "loss" for dems.

This is just another reminder of a BIG part of why we are where we are at.

The media needing to tip the scale against Dems to make up for how horrible Rs are.

lkinwi

(1,477 posts)
51. This reminds me of negotiations when I was working.
Tue Jan 23, 2018, 09:52 AM
Jan 2018

I was one of the group that never thought a contract was good enough, that is until I was actually a part of the negotiation team. Give and take is a necessary evil when it comes to negotiations. I understand where people are coming from with DACA. I hate that they are being held hostage by Republicans, but I’m also happy that CHIP has been renewed. I’m hoping that Dems and repukes can come to some sort of agreement about DACA, but I’m pretty sure that if there is an agreement, it also won’t be all that I/we want, and I’m not going to bash Democrats for making some concessions.

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