yes the obstruction was a main part of it but at least we knew what he was covering up. if we didn't know about the break-in, i have doubts of what would have happened.

the obstruction, being the coverup.

Obstruction charges being a with hunt is kind of what Shitler would claim!

Not to worry, obstruction of justice by obstructing the FBI and DOJ is serious stuff....even more than a coverup of a political break and enter.

compared to obstruction on the coverup of treason (conspiring with a foreign nation to interfere with a national election). There will be many charges of obstruction, including witness tampering. Nearly the entire cabinet lied on their security clearance forms.

Only the actual burglars were nailed for the original crime.

Nixon himself was about to be impeached for obstruction.

Rodino was the chairman of the House Committee that had jurisdiction over impeaching President Nixon. At the time Nixon resigned, Rodino was circulating articles of impeachment to his committee. Among the charges were abuse of authority and obstruction of justice.

Obstruction of justice is not some penny-ante accusation; it's a very serious charge to be leveled at a government official. Yes, Republicans will try to minimize obstruction of justice and make it sound equivalent to Gov. Christie closing down traffic lanes. We don't have to go along with their charade.

no access to the documents to know whether or not Mueller has found it.

He probably has.

what we have now is what we will continue to have, if the only charges are obstruction.

that's interesting

how it's going to get spun in the media, and enough people will buy into it. if we have no idea what he was covering up, it's not going to get very far and the dems will be blamed for a waste of time and money.

no matter what comes of Mueller's investigation...even if it were treason or murder

It was even worse than the day I found out there was no Santa Claus when I was five.

There will be RICO charges filed by the State of New York for money laundering, which will eliminate any ability for DT to offer pardons and claims of executive privilege. There will also be Perjury charges after his interview with Mueller. You know Trump will not be able to tell the truth, and Mueller also knows that.

He's not in this to give dodart a slap on the wrist. I hope that's not what you are thinking or implying

Repubs will not vote for impeachment because their voters would vote them out. Trump will ignore any indictment and a jury would almost certainly have at least one Trump cult member who will block a unanimous guilty verdict. Any removal other than a lost election will enrage many tens of millions. The best and only path is an election. We should understand Mueller can’t force Trump out.

Obstruction is an unambiguously impeachable offense. The idiot GOP impeached Clinton over it, and all he did was lie about a consensual relationship.

I do.

My point in mentioning it was to recall that the GOP certainly considers obstruction to be impeachable, so I can't wait for them to impeach this fucker once obstruction is proven.

Trump & Co are going down for money laundering.

They got Al Capone on tax evasion but the whole point was all the money he was trying to hide. So too with Trump. He was trying to hide criminal activities that went through Flynn, which he only would have done if he knew what Flynn was doing. We can only guess what those activities were, but Mueller knows for sure, he knows what Trump knew at the time, and he will tell all when the time comes.

So the story will be something like - Trump knew (or ordered) Flynn to make illegal deals with the Russians and then tried to cover it all up after the fact. Legally that's obstruction, but it's also what everyone is calling collusion.

charged with obstruction. Neither was considered a witch hunt. But don't worry, money laundering will be the main charge.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017476734

Trump's obstruction is quite extreme. It involves excluding anyone from any position of public authority who might possibly not be "loyal" to him personally.

That's not our system.

Our system if about the rule of law and not the rule of personality or a strong man or a single person.

So even if the investigation is simply about how Trump tried to cleanse the Justice Department of investigators and lawyers and employees with political opinions different from his or different from Republicans, we have a very, very serious problem.

Obama went out of his way to include Republicans even in the inner circle of his advisors. That is the normal American way.

If Trump is betraying the essential American tenet that ours is a government of laws and not of a strong leader, we have a very serious problem. That undermines our whole system.

Because if a Republican can establish a personal regime in America, so can a Democrat or anyone else. Personal loyalty to the president should not be the measure of an FBI agent.

Obstruction of justice that is a betrayal of our rule of law is a very serious charge.

Watch the Morning Joe excerpt that I linked to at the beginning of this post.

Crimes like the following...
* Taking things of value from foreign nationals is a crime.
* Aiding and abetting illegal computer hacking is a crime.
* Negotiating as a private citizen with a hostile foreign power with which there is disputes is a crime.

The Mueller investigation has thus far resulted in the charges of the following four individuals.
1. Michael Flynn
2. Paul Manafort
3. Rick Gates
4. George Papadopoulos

Out of those 4 indictments we've had 2 guilty pleas, and let's not forget the numerous members of 45's Administration who's on record lying about their contact with Russian contacts, including his son-in-law.

There's so much smoke here, that Republicans asses are on fire.

i'm saying i hope there are charges against trump like those, or money laundering. something like that will make it much easier for the common person, or congressperson to see that a real crime was committed and it will be difficult to ignore it. if it is just obstruction with a nebulous idea of what was being covered up, it will be a hard sell. that's all i'm saying, I am very hopeful that it is not just obstruction and there is another crime that he was covering up.... so the asswipes on the right can't have their talking points about how there was no "real crime and all they could pin on him was obstruction because he fired comey... and firing someone is not a crime" I can just hear it now already... and I'm saying that I really hope there is something more than obstruction, like the things you listed, so they won't be able to say that. that is all.

“Focuses mainly on obstruction”

When someone desperately want to make a deceptive and flawed point and then comes up with an argument.

i'd be happy to respond if i understood your point.

It will be whatever he can make a case for. No need to get bunchy about something that may not be a problem and you can't control anyway.
If you want to do something constructive you should actually be promoting the idea that obstruction, or false statements, or anything illegal is a MAJOR CRIME and should be punished accordingly. That's what the other side is doing with all this "witch hunt" stuff. They are poisoning the water and you can do the same.

If the only charge is obstruction it will lb a problem. Is there is an actual come that the obstruction was covering up that will be much better. If it is only obstruction I can hear the rally cries from the right already. If there is another time that the obstruction was covering up that would be much better and I don't think he will survive it

Your spelling sucks. Your post has no purpose. It only serves to create division or uncertainty. Go post something on facebook about how obstruction is a BIG DEAL, and you will have done something to alleviate your fears. Otherwise, stop wasting your and our time whining about an imagined problem.

Понимаю?

now people get accused of being a russian bot just because they say they are hoping for something stronger than obstruction alone?

my friend, i am not a russian bot. chances are i've been on DU longer than you have.

i was only expressing concern that if there are only obstruction charges it won't be an easy sell to the public or to the congress who could be voting on impeachment.

that means i'm a russian bot?

give me a break. i expressed concern, and it is a real valid concern that others agree with.

talk about paranoia....

i guess that's another reason i'm a russian bot?

it's called typing on a cell phone.

i'm an english major, and i've written two books. i know how to spell and I don't have to make any excuses for having fat thumbs.

take a look in the mirror my friend before you go accusing people of things.

If Mueller is all people say he is, he will at least get money laundering, if not conspiracy to defraud Americans in a presidential election, or some such thing.

Mueller will continue investigating and file appropriate charges.

And here is my prediction: when Mueller files charges that are not RICO, treason, high treason, laundering all the dirty money in Russia and do not result in impeachment, there will be a rush of DU members saying all the things about Mueller that Republicans are saying now.

Lots of people here have yet to realize the only way we win this war is at the ballot box. There will be no white knight.

But it's exactly the thing that will bring them all down. Mueller is also investigating shitholes like Dustbin Nunes and Gowdy Doody. When they are perp-walked out of Congress, along with dozens of their cronies, Pres. Turd will not lift a finger to save them. And then he's screwed.

Hope you are right but there is nothing besides conspiracy articles on sympathetic websites that make that seem possible.

You really think one investigation is going to bring down the ruling government and legislative party? I wish I could create such fantasies to live. They run the fucking country. This is strictly a political battle.

I worry too many on the left are going to lose their enthusiasm and give up when all their hopes in Mueller are not realized.

The goal is not to ask Donnie about every accusation. Nor does mueller need to tip his hand.

He’s trying to build a case. Well, multiple cases against multiple people.

If wants to base a charge on a private conversation, he has to ask about that in case Donnie actually has a good defense. Conversely, it also helps rule out certain defenses, e.g., if Donnie says he doesn’t remember anything when mueller asks, it’s less believable if Donnie later remembers something at trial.


Other charges like campaign finance violations or tax evasion or money laundering, he’ll rely on a paper trail and doesn’t so much need to ask Donnie questions.

Mueller has multiple defendants within his grasp, and multiple counts of obstruction, and that is a massive conspiracy to cover up Trump's criminal acts.

And do you realize they just postponed Papadopoulos' sentencing because he's still singing?
Chill, dude.

destruction is taking place.
never thought i'd say this but there actually is someone much worse than GWB!

If the case is strong and Mueller can establish that Trump engaged in blatantly unlawful conduct amounting to intentional malfeasance, he will go down. It doesn’t matter what the crime is, so long as the underlying facts show that Trump acted in a fashion indicating contempt for the law.

The mainstream Republican establishment would love to get rid of Trump and install Pence or Ryan as President. If Mueller proves to have a solid case, I’d think that the Republicans would want to impeach and remove Trump before The November 2018 election if it looks like they’re going to lose the House and Senate. If the house flips, there is a chance that both Trump and Pence could be impeached, and the next in the line of succession would be Nancy Pelosi if she again becomes Speaker of the House.

The Valerie Plame case is very different from this. Karl Rove told the truth to Patrick Fitzgerald and wasn't charged. Scooter Libby fell on his sword to protect Dick Cheney because he thought that Bush would pardon him. Fitzgerald mistake was allowing Bush and Cheney to write thier responses.

Mueller is pursuing this case from multiple angles. You have obstruction, conspiracy, witness tampering, money laundering, perjury and a host of other charges. I also believe that Mueller is going to have Trump criminally charged. The constitution says nothing about a President being immune from criminal prosecution.

Lastly who gives a crap about what his base thinks. As Trump said he could shoot a person on 5th avenue and his base would let him get away with it. He is right so why are we worried about them.

Not sure where you got that from, but the constitution says

"Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law."

Alexander Hamilton said:
“The President of the United States would be liable to be impeached, tried, and, upon conviction of treason, bribery, or other high crimes or misdemeanors, removed from office; and would afterwards be liable to prosecution and punishment in the ordinary course of law.”

read more...
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-07-31/a-sitting-president-can-t-be-prosecuted

Let me be more concise. The Constitution does not say that you have to impeach the President 1st before you can criminally charge him with a crime. Impeachment is a political act. It does not carry a jail sentence,. It merely removes you from office.

I hope this clarifies the part if my post that you chose to cherry pick.