General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsQUESTION: Isn't the ATTEMPT to obstruct a federal investigation a crime in and of itself?
Even if the obstruction doesn't happen and even if there's no underlying crime to have occurred isn't the attempt at obstructing an investigation a crime?
Thx in advance
lapucelle
(18,275 posts)dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)He and Sessions and Hope Hicks and Miller were all involved in the letter that fired Comey, and all of those people were told by Trump WHY he wanted to fire Comey.
this is after he fired Sally Yates for not laying off the Russians, and why he wanted to fire others in the FBI.
Happily, Trump can't keep his damn mouth shut, and he can't stop lying.
lapucelle
(18,275 posts)That is not easy to prove. There are alternative explanations that could be presented for the administration's motives for wanting to end the Russia probe.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)lapucelle
(18,275 posts)uponit7771
(90,347 posts)... a burden shifting framework would be involved in this action.
lapucelle
(18,275 posts)Skepticism that there was an attempt to fire someone someone for a petty reason does nothing to prove an attempt to obstruct justice.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)... doesn't make the attempt legal.
There are multiple witness's to the act of asking for Mueller to be fired by Red Don IINM so I'm not skeptical of the attempt.
The petty reasons can be found to be pre-textual looking at the whole picture and since he's already claimed he's fired an investigator in part because of the "whole Russier thing" that's a safe bet.
A dispute over green fees!?
Please
lapucelle
(18,275 posts)dewsgirl
(14,961 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,735 posts)Firing Comey in the first place was obstruction of justice because it was intended to interfere with the Russia investigation; the fact that the investigation has actually continued doesn't change anything.
unblock
(52,253 posts)so if you get nailed for obstructing justice, i kinda means you had to have merely attempted it -- and failed....
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)He tried to get Comey to not investigate collusion. Comey refused, that is STILL obstruction. The attempt is obstruction.
And then all the other times he tried to interfere..he's got dozens of obstruction charges, each time, each one, is a felony.
Lying to an investigator, even a small lie, is obstruction. Lying before Congress, lying before a Grand Jury...all obstruction.
AJT
(5,240 posts)and the there won't be enough votes for impeachment in the house. My fear is that unless he resigns we will be stuck with him.
C_U_L8R
(45,003 posts)bearsfootball516
(6,377 posts)And even if the House were to somehow impeach, theres no chance in hell the Senate would go along.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)dawg
(10,624 posts)Do any of us doubt that a Republican Congress would begin impeachment hearings against President Hillary Clinton under similar circumstances?
davekriss
(4,618 posts)Sanity Claws
(21,849 posts)Telling the WH counsel to do something and he doesn't isn't attempt; just shows intent.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)The counsel failing to do what is told is the failure but doesn't erase the action of telling the counsel what to do when in authority to do so like Trump was.
Iggo
(47,558 posts)There might be, and probably is, a difference under the law.
But to me, obstruction and attempted obstruction are logically the same thing. (Successfully getting in the way of the investigation and unsuccessfully getting in the way of the investigation are both getting in the way of the investigation, if you see what I mean.)