square. And we know hardly anything compared to Mueller. When there is smoke it either goes out or there is fire. This would of burnt out long ago...there is much there. Obstruction of justice will be the least of his worries..I promise.

Mueller could bring down everybody but T himself, and a new swarm of assholes would take up positions around him overnight.

to prison. Hoping for "nothing found" is for Republicans and people who believe in unicorns.

Whether Trump himself will fall as a result of this investigation is an unanswered question.

He is so far the massively corrupt and astonishingly incompetent person his voters and the electoral college willfully elected, no deception, the real thing, and we shouldn't confuse this with the kind of behaviors, criminal and noncriminal, that could force the Republicans to support impeachment and removal.

You make DU sound alien.

Mueller will say nothing to see here. You must know that.

To the contrary, Mueller's been strategically leaking little dribs of information about serious findings all along, whenever needed to counter Republican attacks on the investigation usually --and to keep the fourth estate energized and fed.

That's why people wonder what gives with this post. If your concern was directed only at those who have their hearts set on seeing Trump himself in an orange prison suit, it would be understandable. In a very imperfect world, it's not inconceivable that he could serve out his full term and go back to what he loves, starring in a trashy hit reality TV show.

Do really hope that's already inconceivable to the Mueller team, though.

People are just starting to revive from the blow Nov before last. If he's part of a big plan to string us along and smack us down again, there will be a lot of weeping in my house. I don't need that. I do need to talk to other Dems, though, and this screen is how I'm trying to stay connected. Big thanks to all the pick-apart-crowd for helping to make reaching out into a miserable chore.

arising from a conspiracy to victimize naive Democrats -- which would require our entire Democratic Party leadership to be complicit with Republicans in undermining our democracy -- will get a warmer reception.

That sort of bizarre conspiracy theory has not been introduced, much less gained any ground here, and you should not expect validation of these suspicions here.

If you do. Some conspiracies are, of course, real.

I didn't say anything about Democratic complicity, but YOU just did, while trying your damnedest to assign some kind of malintent to my post.

I'm glad I'm old, and don't have to deal with what's between your ears much longer. I'm sure you're fine with that too. Good riddance!

committees involved in the various investigations all include Democratic senators and congressmen.

Then, of course, there are all the rest of our people in congress, who all have duties to their office and their nation. You don't like the word complicit, but I just can't imagine this happening without the fourth estate being complicit.

All of it that isn't already enrolled in a very different conspiracy to mislead, of course.

There is no possibility that Mueller will say nothing happened.

I heard of stupid Trump since 1975.

I won't end well for him. He is what he is. We, New Yorkers hated that ass. He didn't live in NYC because we love him, it because we hate him.

Betting pool, down for a twenty.

1. Money laundering.
2. A president being blackmailed over loans from the Russian mafia.
3. A coordinated effort to collude with Russia.
4. Numerous instances of Obstruction of Justice.

Shit will go down. A bit more patience...

So hard to obstruct and to attack the media and FBI if he had nothing to hide?

Wouldn't worry, about Mueller saying there's no there there. There's plenty there, these are inept and brazen criminals and Mueller and team are some of the smartest most successful prosecutors in the country.

the entire country to stand up in protest. I would expect nothing less than a national strike.

Are you kidding me? I hope people keep their expectations high.

Right.

our OUTRAGE.

We SHOULD keep our expectations high, because we know DT is as corrupt as any President ever. If they let him off the hook, there is NO justice.

And that reason is to remove trump from office. In the large scheme of things the ‘election’ of djt was a huge mistake, meaning it wasn’t supposed to happen. The powers that be in Washington on both sides of the isle we’re counting on Hillary, she was all but a lock to be the next President, and both sides were good with that outcome. There was no way in hell any one of them wanted trump anywhere near the Oval Office.
When the election came and went, and when Hillary won the popular vote by millions just like the polls said she would, the nation and the powers that be in Washington were shocked.
Something was very wrong. Somehow trump had manipulated a few counties in a few states and managed to pull off the biggest theft in the history of the world by stealing the Presidency right out from under the nose of everyone in our nations Capitol.
Obama knew this, the fbi, cia the DOJ all knew this because they’d been secretly following trump and everyone he conspired with in Russia, all the way up to Putin. Putin is the key here, he installed trump, not the American voter.
Obama was stuck with one hell of a dilemma, do you do what’s right and call ‘bullshit’ immediately and tell the truth to the American people? Or do you let the natural course of things go, inaugurate trump and go about righting the biggest wrong in history within the existing legal system?
Obama knew if he put the truth out there he was risking civil war, after all sadly, 60 million gun owning fascists and rascists gladly voted for trump and there was the distinct possibile threat they would turn the main streets of America red with blood if their ‘victory’ however twisted was denied.
So Robert Mueller, a man of impeccable credentials was brought in to clean up the mess.
Mueller knows what happened. He will use a method called parallel reconstruction to make the case against trump, give him time, he is there for one reason and he won’t be denied.

Either we trust Mueller to investigate with integrity and diligence or we don't. We can't simultaneously demand that the right go along with him finding wrongdoing but say that if none is found it must be a coverup.

Have trust in Mueller. He's a professional and he'll nail Trump when the time comes.

NOT LET US DOWN

So many crimes, so little time. Trump has been dirty his whole life and so have his business deals and funding. And the dirt followed him through the primaries, the general and now his Presidency. He can only ever win by hook AND by crook. Mueller will find a lot - and I have to believe that something is going to stick to him and take him down.

There will be mountains of evidence; more than anyone could ever imagine; on drumpf and his accomplices.

need to respond with their SHOCK and OUTRAGE.



Not with, "Well whaddya expect? And how about those Seahawks?"

Don't want to be wide-open to that again. That's all I'm saying.

The worst that could happen always belongs on the list of what COULD happen -- at the bottom if you like.

Better to be enraged and ready to fight.

of the story is making that less likely every week.

There’s fire, not just smoke.

We take back Congress, they're fucking toast.

.....

Was there ever a more guilty group of assholes? We got pictures of them aiming guns at the good guys. Trump is annoyed but not worried.

What kind of man is Mueller? He is a republican. Does he mind that our country is being destroyed? I don't think he sees it that way or he would take action.

If Mueller has something, it’s time to present it. He can tie up loose ends later.

and the only way could know nothing is that he’s a fucking moron, and if he’s that big of a fucking moron then he should be removed from office because he’s too stupid to be president.

But, I wouldn't be surprised if Mueller indicts several members of Donald's administration including his family, Mueller recommends charges for Donald, the report gets classified, Donald pardons everyone and the Republican congress does nothing. Further, voter suppression, ID laws, (including a new federal law passed before November) gerrymandering and a little help from overseas friends prevent the Dems from taking back the House and Senate.

That's about where my expectations lay.

Millennials are supposed to be mostly Democrats. Why aren't they making Dem bot farms of their own? If Latvia can do it, Chicago and Detroit can do it better.

And paying many many hackers as well as the cheaper bots. Who’d pay for this illegal activity? They can risk it because they’re NOT in the USA.

and leave it up to them to do something.

Remember Fitzmas? This feels a lot like that.

Yeah?

and the party in charge will do nothing. After 45 leaves office the New York states attorney may choose to prosecute, but I don't see congress doing anything.

He had Flynn dead to rights on failing to register as a foreign agent and didn't charge him with it because he agreed to become a cooperating witness.

If Mueller was just going to conclude "Nothing to see here" he wouldn't be cutting deals with the mid-level fish.

There's also lots of evidence that he's flipped McGahn, Bannon and Priebus.

I will bet you any money you like that members of the Trump family are indicted, probably in the next two to three months.

But Mueller finding nothing isn't one of them.

there will be lots of marches and demonstrations.

But people will do more than that. We are mobilized already. We will GOTV and make some real changes. Will those changes happen overnight? Of course not. We might not take back Congress right away. We might see more erosion of the Supreme Court. But we will win against them, and sooner than they think.

I *HAVE* to hold on to my optimism.

Without that I would not endure this appalling cluster%uck.

AG Schneidermann will have the goods on him, and there will be NO pardoning. Remember, Felix Sater is singing like a canary as I type this.

The repugs will sweep this year and Trumpy will be guaranteed a second term if he wants it.

a racist piece of shit...and with what has already come out clearly shows Trump campaign collusion.

It could put us into a constitutional crisis of our own making.

In other words, America cannot handle the truth. Justice is not supreme. Political expediency is much easier.

I have no thought about what is a right wing talking point.

People are acting like Republican Robert Mueller, former head of J. Edgar Hoover's machine is coming to the rescue because there is SO much dirt there on T -- like it's a foregone conclusion.

Gun control after Sandy Hook was a foregone conclusion. Remember that? I posted at the time that nothing would happen, and people skewered me alive -- told me to delete the posts just for trying to steel people for disappointment.

So, suddenly, the same people who screwed Leonard Peltier and others are the good guys to the left? And the thought that the right wing bad-mouthing of investigators could be a big feint isn't even being considered.

I don't trust Republican outrage for the cameras. I don't trust Mueller. And I don't trust the legislature, even the Democratic side, to follow through with removal if things get that far. When it comes down to it, they're going to hear the phrase "constitutional crisis" and shake in their boots. Strategists will be telling them that leaving a more damaged T in there is good strategy. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. They aren't just going to screw us -- they are doing it now, and we're oblivious to it.

End of rant.

Maybe some people attacked you over it, but there were plenty of other cynics.

There are plenty of cynics now. A GOP Congress won't impeach. A Dem Congress might. MIGHT. A GOP Senate won't convict. A Dem Senate without a Supermajority won't convict because it would need the Grahams and Murkowskis and Collinses to demonstrate spines.

for this possibility. I would be very surprised if much comes of it for a variety of reasons. I suspect a few lesser lights will get caught up in it, as they have already, but I think generally it will not come to all that. I've thought from the beginning that Russia is a side show and a distraction. I would prefer they go after money, financial entanglements and how much this clan is making from being President. I think the rate of return on investigative dollars will be far greater.

And that is going to be way worse for DOTUS.

They might get a few lower-level people, but it will be anti-climactic. Trump will surely serve his term (unless he quits).

We have to be prepared that this will be a disappointment.

Last edited Mon Jan 29, 2018, 01:01 PM - Edit history (1)

republicans in Congress 11 days before the election, and the press then saying that "the email investigation ad been reopened", which was a LIE", and parading every republican and rightwing politician across the television screen propagating that LIE

It is not out of the realm of possibility that if Mueller comes up with blatant illegal activity directly linked to trump, that they won't have the votes to impeach, and the republicans will utilize the media to continue to cast dispersion on the Mueller investigation as being compromised, and that any indictments against a sitting President will end up in the SC, where because of the makeup of the court, it is uncertain how they will rule if a sitting president can be indicted.

The prudent thing to do is not count on Mueller but instead focus on recapturing the House and hopefully the Senate

Meanwhile 2018 GOTV that's what is important and where people can make a difference
not just waiting on the Mueller train everyday

Trump has lied and cheated all his life. I'm convinced he learned long ago to make sure his helpers similarly lied and cheated, yet shut up and concealed sufficiently.

Mueller will know things but be unable to prove them. He would need extraordinary levels of proof for any congressional Republican to care.

This forum and Democrats in general have been swayed into false hope by Rachel Maddow, who means well but basically has no idea what she is doing in terms of how information will be digested and acted upon by the system in place.

GOTV is not the answer, unless it means registration drives. GOTV in one cycle is short term trivia while registration drives can mean a lifetime. Trump's approval rating will not remain this low. I've seen posts here assuming he will carry similar approval levels into 2020. That makes very little sense. We needed to be pouncing on every college campus while he carried low 30s approval numbers. It should have been the overwhelming priority. I'm afraid the peak opportunity has already passed.

I am not even going to waste my precious time debating this with you. Toodles.

But, at this point, it's all we've got....hold on to hope...