Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsUnprecedented: 9 historians on why Trumps war with the FBI is so stunning
Unprecedented: 9 historians on why Trumps war with the FBI is so stunning
I cant think of a single time any president has done anything like this.
By Sean Illing@seanillingsean.illing@vox.com Feb 1, 2018, 1:10pm EST
snip//
I reached out to nine historians to ask if there is a precedent for something like this. Theres nothing new about tension between the FBI and the president, but it seems unusual for a president to so publicly challenge the independence of the bureau and the Justice Department.
Mainly, I was curious to know if weve entered uncharted territory and will this undermine the independence of the FBI and the Justice Department?
Their full responses, lightly edited for clarity and style, are below.
Douglas M. Charles, professor of history, Penn State University
Regarding the current antagonism between the White House and FBI, there is no good historical precedent. Never has a president of the United States attacked the FBI so publicly. Furthermore, congressional committees with oversight responsibilities have also never openly attacked the FBI in this way.
In the J. Edgar Hoover days (1924-1972), the FBI worked in some cases to advance the political interests of the White House: Franklin Delano Roosevelts foreign policy interests, Eisenhowers anti-communist interests, Lyndon Johnsons and Nixons political intelligence interests.
When Harry Truman was president and allegedly was soft on communism, FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover secretly worked with congressional committees and Sen. Joe McCarthy to advance the anti-communist cause, but there was never a public rift between the FBI and the White House.
The idea that a president would so publicly condemn the FBI and its work is unprecedented, and does appear to be an effort to pull the FBI back into the presidential orbit as an agency doing its bidding.
Regarding the current antagonism between the White House and FBI, there is no good historical precedent. Never has a president of the United States attacked the FBI so publicly. Furthermore, congressional committees with oversight responsibilities have also never openly attacked the FBI in this way.
In the J. Edgar Hoover days (1924-1972), the FBI worked in some cases to advance the political interests of the White House: Franklin Delano Roosevelts foreign policy interests, Eisenhowers anti-communist interests, Lyndon Johnsons and Nixons political intelligence interests.
When Harry Truman was president and allegedly was soft on communism, FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover secretly worked with congressional committees and Sen. Joe McCarthy to advance the anti-communist cause, but there was never a public rift between the FBI and the White House.
The idea that a president would so publicly condemn the FBI and its work is unprecedented, and does appear to be an effort to pull the FBI back into the presidential orbit as an agency doing its bidding.
Rhodri Jeffreys-Jones, professor of history, University of Edinburgh
There have been tensions in the past between the White House and the FBI. For example, President Johnson made it known that he was disappointed the FBI could not prove there were communists behind the domestic protest movement against the Vietnam War. The CIA concluded the same, and LBJ had to abandon any urge he may have felt to fire the bureaus director, J. Edgar Hoover. But that fracas was a storm in a teacup compared with todays confrontation.
It seems to me that there has been incompetence all round. Russian President Vladimir Putin rightly thought there was a chance of an ally in the White House, [and] then, to further that goal, sanctioned interference in the presidential election. Donald Trump indeed wanted to be friends with Russia but suffers from Putin-like hubris ... and has thwarted his own aim in that he cannot now be friends with Russia without appearing to be part of Putins conspiracy.
What happens to the FBI may seem a side issue compared with all this, but presidential disrespect for the law is reminiscent of Richard Nixons behavior, which led to his resignation in disgrace.
more...
https://www.vox.com/2018/2/1/16956422/numes-memo-release-fbi-trump
InfoView thread info, including edit history
TrashPut this thread in your Trash Can (My DU » Trash Can)
BookmarkAdd this thread to your Bookmarks (My DU » Bookmarks)
5 replies, 1243 views
ShareGet links to this post and/or share on social media
AlertAlert this post for a rule violation
PowersThere are no powers you can use on this post
EditCannot edit other people's posts
ReplyReply to this post
EditCannot edit other people's posts
Rec (18)
ReplyReply to this post
5 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Unprecedented: 9 historians on why Trumps war with the FBI is so stunning (Original Post)
babylonsister
Feb 2018
OP
asiliveandbreathe
(8,203 posts)1. I just did not know this about Johnson...
President Johnson made it known that he was disappointed the FBI could not prove there were communists behind the domestic protest movement against the Vietnam War. The CIA concluded the same
The domestic anti-war protests against the VN war communist inspired?? - FBI, CIA could not prove it..gee I wonder why - considering we lost 1/2 a generation of American men...so very profoundly sad - real American Patriots protested to stop the war in VN..we will do it again....
The domestic anti-war protests against the VN war communist inspired?? - FBI, CIA could not prove it..gee I wonder why - considering we lost 1/2 a generation of American men...so very profoundly sad - real American Patriots protested to stop the war in VN..we will do it again....
RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)2. K&R
Cha
(297,574 posts)3. KICK
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)4. K&R
spanone
(135,862 posts)5. K&R...