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LuckyCharms

(17,459 posts)
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 09:33 AM Feb 2018

Ever try to convince someone that they should at least start

entertaining the idea that America may be done for? America could be over?

I'm not predicting this, but I am entertaining the possibility.

Some of the people I speak with have no idea what is happening. It is like one of those YouTube videos where the "man on the street" is interviewed and asked common knowledge questions like "Who is the Vice-President of the United states"? Then they show that only a few people know the answer.

I don't mind saying that I have always seemed to have extraordinary "gut feeling" capabilities. I am usually correct about the big things. I've stated here before what my feelings were the day after election day. I took my dog for a walk in the park, and then the woods. I've endured a lot of pain and grief and trauma in my life (as we all have)...but that day...I had a feeling that morning while walking that was so overwhelmingly horrifying that words cannot explain it.

I will probably back out of this thread now...but my gut is telling me that we will not come out of this unscathed. I guess I can no longer put 100% faith in our system of checks and balances.

It's everything...Facebook bullshit...the mainstream media not seeming to care all that much about the Russian sanctions not being implemented...Twitter bots..."middle of the road" people...totally insane/brainwashed people that will support Trump no matter what...Fox News bullshit...and apathetic people who probably have trouble tying their shoes. It's all of this.

I don't know what Mueller does or does not know. But I know what I feel. I think that the raw truth is so horrid and complex, that "someone" will have to make a decision on whether the truth can be released to the public lest a national panic/civil war breaks out. I don't know who that "someone" is. There is no "someone".

Please don't attack me for expressing this opinion. It's just the way I feel.

And if you believe in God...then God help us.

38 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Ever try to convince someone that they should at least start (Original Post) LuckyCharms Feb 2018 OP
All empires eventually disintegrate and disappear. We've had a GOOD run Glorfindel Feb 2018 #1
I agree Clarity2 Feb 2018 #2
We officially are an emerging fascist state Cosmocat Feb 2018 #3
Oh, for god's sake. If democracy depended on people Hortensis Feb 2018 #25
And yet Cosmocat Feb 2018 #35
That last paragraph was chilling. There has dewsgirl Feb 2018 #4
I have a similar uneasy feeling as well. smirkymonkey Feb 2018 #5
You convinced me, I'm going to hide in the basement with a rifle, why bother voting, and .... marble falls Feb 2018 #6
My feelings on a given subject are not open to LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #7
Riiiiiiiiight. Put me on ignore. marble falls Feb 2018 #8
Your finger got stuck on the letter "i". LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #11
If it makes you feel better, go with that. Have a wonderful day! marble falls Feb 2018 #12
You too. n/t LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #14
I don't think the Checks and Balances are going to hold..."Norms" are being steam rolled over.. HipChick Feb 2018 #9
I suggest you don't try with me... brooklynite Feb 2018 #10
Try what? LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #13
This message was self-deleted by its author Gabi Hayes Feb 2018 #15
"Ever try to convince someone that they should at least start....." brooklynite Feb 2018 #16
I never considered trying to convince you. LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #17
Hey, life looks pretty rosy when your spot on The Ark is already reserved and paid for. ret5hd Feb 2018 #26
True, that. n/t LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #28
Most people I know agree that America is done for MaryMagdaline Feb 2018 #18
Like every empire before us lunatica Feb 2018 #19
Unfortunately, I agree RandomAccess Feb 2018 #20
TURNOUT alone won't guarantee a win in November RandomAccess Feb 2018 #21
In the 22nd century the U.S.A. is gone. hunter Feb 2018 #22
strange how some DUers completely miss your point Skittles Feb 2018 #23
Yes, it is strange LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #24
Kind of reminds me of Sartre's Nausea ProudLib72 Feb 2018 #27
I felt/feel Faux pas Feb 2018 #29
America or the United States is not over. There are more of us then there wasupaloopa Feb 2018 #30
Do you know what is actually "telling"? LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #31
No I call it shit because it is shit. You are licking your own ice cream cone. wasupaloopa Feb 2018 #33
Better be careful. I am an internet Golden Gloves champion. LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #34
Well I don't play games here wasupaloopa Feb 2018 #37
Do you like tea? LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #38
25% of the Americans think the sun revolves WhiteTara Feb 2018 #32
People have survived and countries have recovered from worse than this. SharonClark Feb 2018 #36

Glorfindel

(9,736 posts)
1. All empires eventually disintegrate and disappear. We've had a GOOD run
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 09:56 AM
Feb 2018

but if all we're capable of is embodied in tRump and his merry band of deplorables, maybe we should be over. I was walking through Trafalgar Square in London with my very wise cousin several years ago. It was night, and the crowds of people were smiling, laughing, and seeming to have a grand old time. I wondered out loud why they were so carefree and happy, and my cousin said, "They've laid down the burden of empire. They're free to pursue their own happiness now, without having to worry about holding on to far away places." (Not an exact quote, of course.) I understood at once what she meant. Isn't it possible that Americans, too, could be happier and more content apart than together? Just a thought.

And to answer your question, no, I haven't tried to convince anyone of this possibility. I don't share your "gut feeling" capabilities. My predictions are hardly ever 100% correct.

Clarity2

(1,009 posts)
2. I agree
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 09:59 AM
Feb 2018

I think this is big. Much bigger than we all know. So many sectors of govt, business & financial...BIG OIL. And if they blew the top off of everything, it could have major effects on our economy. If you recall HSBC's money laundering, they got a slap on the hand because they were worried it would rock the economy during a delicate time in the housing recovery. Throw in a bunch of financial institutions and it is a delicate balance.

There are so many people that are not paying attention. You essentially have to dig deep to notice the authoritarian theme & the monetizing of our govt. Mainstream hasn't used the word coup or authoritarian, or right wing conspiracy - basically because they don't want to look like Alex Jones or Fox news for the left. Which is unfortunate but absolutely understandable. They have to remain credible with proof. But I am glad that finally some pundits on the left are using those words on msm. It needs to be said. The sanctions thing was the huge red flag that confirmed that Putin has his hands in this administration.

I'm not a really religious person, but I do say a prayer every day to get the country through this hell semi-intact. And that Mueller succeeds in putting everyone involved behind bars. But it will take a lot of work to put the pieces back together. Certain bells can't be unrung. Like environmental dmg from this admin. It will take a lot of money to fix that. Which is why the longer this goes on, the worse that will be.

I think our checks and balances now are We the People. Marches and economic boycotts. And checks and balances of other countries. You can only get away with being a fascist dictator for oh so long before other countries start sanctioning US. We are a global economy after all, and as much as this administration wants our country to be cloistered, it doesn't work for their monetizing scheme. Nope.

Cosmocat

(14,573 posts)
3. We officially are an emerging fascist state
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 10:05 AM
Feb 2018

We were sleep walking through the last few decades while right wing media skull fucked the brains of 2/3 of the country senseless, we reached the tipping point when one of our two major parties nominated a cut rate dictator as it's nominee for POTUS

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
25. Oh, for god's sake. If democracy depended on people
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 06:36 PM
Feb 2018
who rush to surrender whenever they get anxious, we'd still be pulling our forelocks and stepping into the gutters when our betters approached.

OBVIOUSLY, it did not. Which invites the question, does it now? Will they still, and always, mostly just be swept along willy-nilly by civilization's advances?

dewsgirl

(14,961 posts)
4. That last paragraph was chilling. There has
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 10:06 AM
Feb 2018

Been a shift in the last month. Our checks and balances are failing. I am trying to stay positive.
You are correct most people don't know and some don't care, because they can't see the big picture until it affects them personally and unfortunately it eventually will.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
5. I have a similar uneasy feeling as well.
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 10:10 AM
Feb 2018

Like most people in this country are just whistling past the graveyard. Too many Americans believe that we are invincible. I don't believe that is true. I don't see a positive outcome no matter what happens.

marble falls

(57,236 posts)
6. You convinced me, I'm going to hide in the basement with a rifle, why bother voting, and ....
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 10:33 AM
Feb 2018

wait for the SS and the Gestapo.

Falling for this sort dystopian thought becomes self-fulfilling prophecy and it makes me sick to read it. What is your goals in posting this vision, anyways? I'm voting and all your post seems intent on doing is to suppress voting. Believing this negativity and spreading it makes more Trumps possible.

LuckyCharms

(17,459 posts)
7. My feelings on a given subject are not open to
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 10:41 AM
Feb 2018

debate, and they are not open to your rude interpretation.

Civility is not all that difficult.

Response to LuckyCharms (Reply #13)

MaryMagdaline

(6,856 posts)
18. Most people I know agree that America is done for
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 11:10 AM
Feb 2018

We know our country has lost power. I grieve for loss of democracy and loss of chance for equality ( we were never equal). Right wingers grieve for loss of power and their own status. We all grieve for loss of economic strength per person and per family.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
19. Like every empire before us
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 11:31 AM
Feb 2018

After our fall from world power we will, nonetheless, persevere as a co-equal country among equal countries. Our true potential will be unlocked once we stop pouring our wealth into the war machine which serves us only to preserve and expand our empire.

Imagine what we could do if we channeled our wealth into the betterment of the planet as a country among equal countries and not a military superpower.

There might still be hope for us.

 

RandomAccess

(5,210 posts)
20. Unfortunately, I agree
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 11:53 AM
Feb 2018

Entirely.

There has been a shift this last week. We were headed this direction, but now the trajectory is almost locked into place.

We were doing well enough until the Republicans pretty much ALL caved and totally capitulated to Trump. Our 3 branches of government were more or less putting along. I was as euphoric when the Russian sanctions bill passed over Trump's objections as when any court said NO to Trump. But, as we all know, the Republicons are no longer honoring and upholding their oaths of office.

The enormous corruption on the part of the Republicans on this Nunes memo -- making up so many lies about our premier law enforcement agency -- is quite bad enough, but as you point out, too many people don't have a clue what's going on. And that makes things all the worse. But this (see below) from Twitter absolutely sent me into a tailspin last night when I read it because it isn't just corrosive, it isn't just false, it's the worst kind of all-out propaganda: It threatens someone's life and liberty. My God, what are we going to do?

I'm at the point of blaming the MSM now too. They have done a dismal job of keeping the public informed, so if and when Mueller comes out with what we hope he will -- too many people will be completely disbelieving.

The other piece that is TOTALLY against us, the upcoming elections. The higher the stakes -- and I can hardly imagine them being any higher -- the more likely Russia will just pre-empt them. I worry that high turnout won't be enough. And Trump & Pence have already started laying the foundation for a win for them to appear normal. After all, "the polls were wrong in 2016" too.

I don't like to be pessimistic, but I don't see any way out of this if we don't win in November, and I am very worried about whether we can pull it off without paper ballots (I'll make a separate post about that). Thank God there's no electoral college to worry about.


Fox's Greg Jarrett launches new smear against Rosenstein to try to help Trump https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210183331
Jarrett hadn't tweeted for a month. His last tweets were slamming the Wolff book's report that Bannon had said Trump Jr meeting with Russians at Trump Tower was treasonous.
And now these tweets, this morning:

- Gregg Jarrett @GreggJarrett



Abuse of power continues still at the Department of Justice. As I reported last night on Hannity, a highly reliable congressional source tells me that 3 weeks ago, on January 10, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein used the power of his office to threaten Members of Congress.


- In a meeting with Chairman Devin Nunes, FBI Director Christopher Wray and others, the source says that Rosenstein threatened to subpoena the texts and emails of Congress because he was”tired of dealing with the Intelligence Committee.” If true, Rosenstein must resign or be fired
7:11 AM - Feb 3, 2018


- It is a crime for a government official to use his office to threaten anyone, including a member of Congress, for exercising a constitutionally protected right. See 18 USC 242 and other similar abuse of power statutes.
7:18 AM - Feb 3, 2018

- Nunes was exercising his constitutional oversight authority by investigating alleged wrongdoing in the FBI and DOJ. Rosenstein, according to the source, threatened to use his power to retaliate against Nunes and others in an effort to intimidate them and stop their legal efforts
7:25 AM - Feb 3, 2018

- Again, if true, Rosenstein’s action was an illegal abuse of power and he should no longer serve as Deputy Attorney General. He allegedly used threats to try to stop the Intelligence Committee from exposing wrongful behavior in an attempt to cover it up.
7:33 AM - Feb 3, 2018


 

RandomAccess

(5,210 posts)
21. TURNOUT alone won't guarantee a win in November
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 11:58 AM
Feb 2018



Hillary didn't lose because she was less POPULAR. She lost because of James Comey's letters and because of some even more important factors -- more important because they're not going away. They will be used against us in every election going forward, unless we can stop them.

The big problems are voter suppression, Russian meddling, and targeted voter propaganda through Twitter, Google, Facebook, and other forms of social media. There is no question that the Trump campaign, through Cambridge Analytica, did this -- and that the Russians did this. The only question is how much they conspired together in the propaganda campaign.

We need to figure out how to defend the democratic process from fake news and micro-targeted AI propaganda -- or lose our democracy. https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029576691




Here is how they stole the election, well this and KGB operatives V Crosscheck in action:
Trump victory margin in Michigan: 13,107
Michigan Crosscheck purge list: 449,922

Trump victory margin in Arizona: 85,257
Arizona Crosscheck purge list: 270,824

Trump victory margin in North Carolina: 177,008
North Carolina Crosscheck purge list: 589,393
http://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/




23:00 6/25/2017
PALMER: Rigged election: Donald Trump won every surprise swing state by the same 1% margin
http://www.palmerreport.com/opinion/rigged-election-donald-trump-won-every-surprise-swing-state-by-the-same-1-margin/118/

The most commonly posited explanation of Donald Trump’s shocking election victory was that every professional pollster in the nation – despite each working independently and using differing methodologies – somehow managed to overlook the same pockets of Trump voters in these states. If such pockets did exist, they would have existed in varying sizes in each of the four states, thus resulting in different sized wins in each.

Ask any statistician and they’ll tell you that a reasonable distribution of the results would have been Trump winning one of the states by one percent, won one of them by perhaps three percent, won one of them by two percent, lost one of them by one percent, or something along those lines. But instead the voting tallies looked startlingly different from any natural distribution. In fact they looked startlingly the same.

According to the New York Times, the voting results broke down like this: Trump won Florida by just over one percent of the vote. He also won Pennsylvania by just over one percent. He won Michigan by just under one percent. And he won Wisconsin by precisely one percent. That’s not how numbers tend to work in the real world.

On its own, this kind of suspiciously consistent numerical dispersion across the four states that decided the election would be something that could be written off as a mere fluke. But when you put it within the context of the numerous other ways in which the voting tallies make no mathematical sense, it points to the numbers having been rigged or altered.



MikeFarb @mikefarb1
#unhackthevote
Did Trump win Michigan? I don' think so.
Won by 10,704 but wait
75,355 Ballots Thrown Out
87 Machines Broke Down in Detrioit

hunter

(38,328 posts)
22. In the 22nd century the U.S.A. is gone.
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 01:25 PM
Feb 2018

What's left of it has been annexed by Canada, Mexico, and the Devil.

The Canadian and Mexican states are not bad places to live.

The Devil's states are hell on Earth. They've built a wall around their nation, not to keep people out, but to keep people in.

ProudLib72

(17,984 posts)
27. Kind of reminds me of Sartre's Nausea
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 06:46 PM
Feb 2018

And I can't recall what happens to the protagonist at the end of the novel.

 

wasupaloopa

(4,516 posts)
30. America or the United States is not over. There are more of us then there
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 07:12 PM
Feb 2018

are of them. Get out the vote and let that be you meme


And I wish you would stop posting that shit here. It is telling that you think you need to convince other people to be as down as you are.

LuckyCharms

(17,459 posts)
31. Do you know what is actually "telling"?
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 07:36 PM
Feb 2018

The fact that you call my post "shit" because you disagree with me.

 

wasupaloopa

(4,516 posts)
33. No I call it shit because it is shit. You are licking your own ice cream cone.
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 07:54 PM
Feb 2018

You are working against our democracy and what you post has no place here. Trying to undermine turnout is going against Democratic Underground principals.

LuckyCharms

(17,459 posts)
34. Better be careful. I am an internet Golden Gloves champion.
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 07:58 PM
Feb 2018

I like to first slay people with a quick "wtf", and then finish them off with a surprise "lol".

WhiteTara

(29,722 posts)
32. 25% of the Americans think the sun revolves
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 07:52 PM
Feb 2018

around the earth. Okay. There is no convincing. Anything you say will only be cathartic and only for your benefit. Use your energy as you will.

Personally, I'm just waiting.

SharonClark

(10,014 posts)
36. People have survived and countries have recovered from worse than this.
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 09:14 PM
Feb 2018

I am always amazed at how resilient people have been throughout history.

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