Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

kentuck

(111,110 posts)
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 02:22 PM Feb 2018

Is Mueller playing a waiting game with Trump??

Is he waiting for Trump to fire Rosenstein to make his move?

If Trump does something so irrational, Mueller would have several indictments ready to drop?

Trump knows it.

They are both playing hardball.

37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Is Mueller playing a waiting game with Trump?? (Original Post) kentuck Feb 2018 OP
He is giving Trump rope to hang himself....and Trump is obliging. sunonmars Feb 2018 #1
I imagine he is taking it slowly because he is trying to, as far as possible, roll up tblue37 Feb 2018 #29
No, he's not waiting for anything but to complete elleng Feb 2018 #2
I'm sure he would like to complete his investigation but... kentuck Feb 2018 #4
Mueller is not playing. Botany Feb 2018 #3
+1. This ain't no game. (n/t) FreepFryer Feb 2018 #5
That's a great point. GreenPartyVoter Feb 2018 #6
Yup, a good prosecutor doesn't ask a question unless he knows the answer to it. shraby Feb 2018 #8
He really really is. He can't help but lie. He's screwn every which way. n/t Kirk Lover Feb 2018 #14
Mueller is tough too Botany Feb 2018 #24
My Q: What happens if Mueller is fired tomorrow (hypothetically)? DemoTex Feb 2018 #7
Good questions. kentuck Feb 2018 #10
There are at least 12 H2O Man Feb 2018 #17
Robert Mueller is deadly serious, Trump is a fool PJMcK Feb 2018 #9
Oh he's toast all right Downtown Hound Feb 2018 #15
Plus, he has the help of Schneiderman flamingdem Feb 2018 #18
These are not the droids you're looking for. dchill Feb 2018 #11
A few times here recently I've seen SonofDonald Feb 2018 #12
Trump is in deep. C_U_L8R Feb 2018 #13
just out of curiosity shanny Feb 2018 #31
This message was self-deleted by its author C_U_L8R Feb 2018 #33
Someone who really knows their stuff C_U_L8R Feb 2018 #34
Good to know--thanks shanny Feb 2018 #36
The evidence of money laundering is extremely dense and international: He has to squeeze people who lindysalsagal Feb 2018 #16
Just got an image of Mueller holding all these con men flamingdem Feb 2018 #20
The only waiting involves the Trump interview that is being negotiated wishstar Feb 2018 #19
Trump will never agree to that interview Downtown Hound Feb 2018 #21
In Sumo wrestling, waiting to start is one of the ploys of the better wrestlers fierywoman Feb 2018 #22
As a general rule, Federal prosecutors don't move until 99.9% sure localroger Feb 2018 #23
" leaving him dangling in the undicted co-conspiratorial wind" -- I'm so grateful fierywoman Feb 2018 #25
no game, he is getting EVIDENCE Motley13 Feb 2018 #26
Hes waiting to meet with Trump Kablooie Feb 2018 #27
He's not playing any kind of a game. The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #28
Took the words right out of my mouth. Ellipsis Feb 2018 #35
understand how investigations go, they establish everything in advance and the grand jury does their beachbum bob Feb 2018 #30
You got to remember that he's gotten guilty pleas out of two of them so far... SWBTATTReg Feb 2018 #32
I don't know Mueller's mind but here is my take... D23MIURG23 Feb 2018 #37

tblue37

(65,488 posts)
29. I imagine he is taking it slowly because he is trying to, as far as possible, roll up
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 08:13 PM
Feb 2018

as many players as he can in a fast and complex international crime syndicate that Trump and his minions are deeply involved in.

kentuck

(111,110 posts)
4. I'm sure he would like to complete his investigation but...
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 02:31 PM
Feb 2018

He is being obstructed at every turn by Donald Trump. Unfortunately, he cannot ignore such threats.

Botany

(70,584 posts)
3. Mueller is not playing.
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 02:31 PM
Feb 2018

If he is asking for a sit down w/Trump than he already has
the goods on him. Mueller has already talked to 48 people
20 w/the White House and 28 from Trump's campaign.

shraby

(21,946 posts)
8. Yup, a good prosecutor doesn't ask a question unless he knows the answer to it.
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 02:46 PM
Feb 2018

So anything he will be asking trump in an interview he already knows what trump SHOULD be saying in response.

trump is so screwn.

Botany

(70,584 posts)
24. Mueller is tough too
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 06:51 PM
Feb 2018

In Vietnam his company got into a fight w/the V.C. or NVA and Bob
got shot through the leg .... he tied it off or somebody else did and
he went back and got all his men out including the dead and dying.
He got a bronze star and a purple heart.

BTW he was @ the top of his class at the UVA law school too.

DemoTex

(25,403 posts)
7. My Q: What happens if Mueller is fired tomorrow (hypothetically)?
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 02:44 PM
Feb 2018

The evidence does not die.

Sealed indictments, that may exist, do not go away.

The grand jury does not pack up and go home.

But a Constituitional crisis of Richter magnitude 9.5+ DOES ensue.

What happens then?

kentuck

(111,110 posts)
10. Good questions.
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 03:08 PM
Feb 2018

I'm sure there would be some sealed indictments but who would prosecute them if there was no Special Counsel??

H2O Man

(73,616 posts)
17. There are at least 12
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 03:53 PM
Feb 2018

federal prosecutors who are fully prepared to continue, should Mr. Mueller be fired. Equally important, the grand jury is actually part of the judicial branch, rather than executive branch. Mr. Mueller works for them, just as he works for the DOJ. The federal courts have a w3ell-documented history of respect for the independence of a grand jury from attempts to disrupt.

PJMcK

(22,048 posts)
9. Robert Mueller is deadly serious, Trump is a fool
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 02:46 PM
Feb 2018

Mr. Mueller is compiling what must be an extremely complicated and multifaceted set of cases against numerous people.

In his charter, Mr. Mueller was told to investigate not only the Russian interference but also any crimes he discovers during his investigation. I've always thought that this was a really smart addition that AAG Rosenstein included in the charter. It means that Mr. Mueller can go after all kinds of miscreants surrounding Trump in addition to any other crimes Trump has committed.

Trump is not a strategic thinker. He doesn't have the discipline, intelligence or mental capacity to think beyond his last cheeseburger. Importantly, he has no self-control and cannot keep his fat, ugly mouth closed. It was extraordinary that he confessed to Lester Holt on TV that he fired Mr. Comey in an act of obstruction of justice! Trump has no idea how much information the investigators have on him.

In normal times, I'd say Trump is toast. These days, who knows?

SonofDonald

(2,050 posts)
12. A few times here recently I've seen
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 03:10 PM
Feb 2018

Others state that they're worried Mueller will come out with no legal consequences for the dumpf or that he's so partisan that anything against cheetolini will be ignored or swept under the carpet.

I beg to differ, if that was the case the investigation would already be over and we would be marching in the streets.

Mueller is going in for the kill, what is done with his findings is either going to be used by him to indict or prosecute a sitting president if that's found to be allowed or given to congress to act upon.

But it will be bulletproof and righteous.

C_U_L8R

(45,021 posts)
13. Trump is in deep.
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 03:45 PM
Feb 2018

I happened to have dinner with judicial official the other day and was keen to hear his take on all this Trump mess. In legal parlance, he put it "Trump is totally fucked". He considers Trump a traitor, a crook and a fool. And Mueller is, without question, going to take Trump down... all in good time. Anyway, I felt pretty reassured hearing that.

 

shanny

(6,709 posts)
31. just out of curiosity
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 09:21 PM
Feb 2018

is this "judicial official" state? fed? in DC? i need all the reassurance i can get thx

(fwiw totally agree tRump is f@cked: his whole life, his whole business model has been involvement with the mob, at first the local guys and now the russkis. just oligarchs being oligarchs: lying, cheating, stealing, hiding money etc etc etc. stupidest move he ever made--in a long line of them--was running for preznit)

Response to shanny (Reply #31)

C_U_L8R

(45,021 posts)
34. Someone who really knows their stuff
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 09:38 PM
Feb 2018

But State. That's all I'll say. I was mostly asking for his professional opinion... not some inside line. Anyway, this fellow did not seem worried (for us or our country).

lindysalsagal

(20,733 posts)
16. The evidence of money laundering is extremely dense and international: He has to squeeze people who
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 03:50 PM
Feb 2018

hold evidence to offer it up for smaller things. All that talking takes time.

As far as Mueller's concerned, it's not what 45 does this year that counts: The crimes are already committed. He's just not able to crowbar all of the proof instantly because the mailbox fake shell companies are international, and they don't have to help him.

This is no football game.

flamingdem

(39,324 posts)
20. Just got an image of Mueller holding all these con men
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 03:54 PM
Feb 2018

with both hands and squeeeeezing the info out of them. Yum.

wishstar

(5,271 posts)
19. The only waiting involves the Trump interview that is being negotiated
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 03:54 PM
Feb 2018

I expect that Mueller is holding off on more indictments right now until he can nail down the Trump interview since it is more likely Trump will cooperate if he thinks probe is wrapping up and that all he needs to do is deny collusion. But whether or not Trump agrees to be interviewed, we can expect major indictments within a couple of months.

Downtown Hound

(12,618 posts)
21. Trump will never agree to that interview
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 04:14 PM
Feb 2018

He's too stupid, too insecure, too impulsive, and ultimately too guilty to ever let himself be questioned like that.

fierywoman

(7,694 posts)
22. In Sumo wrestling, waiting to start is one of the ploys of the better wrestlers
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 04:15 PM
Feb 2018

-- the longer they wait, the more freaked out the opponent is.

localroger

(3,631 posts)
23. As a general rule, Federal prosecutors don't move until 99.9% sure
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 06:47 PM
Feb 2018

I would bet at this stage they are considering exactly who to charge with what in what order to achieve maximum certainty and effect. Given the questions around indicting a sitting president, I wouldn't be surprised if their strategy is to take out everyone around Trump and leaving him dangling in the undicted co-conspiratorial wind.

fierywoman

(7,694 posts)
25. " leaving him dangling in the undicted co-conspiratorial wind" -- I'm so grateful
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 07:57 PM
Feb 2018

to you for having framed this idea this way !!!

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,856 posts)
28. He's not playing any kind of a game.
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 08:03 PM
Feb 2018

He's methodically putting together evidence relating to a variety of possible crimes, and he's doing it without any consideration of politics. The order in which he is taking each step has to do with the evidence he has collected. Possible witnesses/subjects/targets are interviewed or subpoenaed on the basis of the evidence he already has, since no good prosecutor ever asks a question if he doesn't already know the answer. The interviews will both flesh out existing evidence and determine whether the interviewee can be caught in a lie. This timetable will be followed irrespective of political developments because it's how you put together a solid prosecution.

Ellipsis

(9,124 posts)
35. Took the words right out of my mouth.
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 09:46 PM
Feb 2018

I do think rattling him is part of the process. He doesn't do it. Others do.

 

beachbum bob

(10,437 posts)
30. understand how investigations go, they establish everything in advance and the grand jury does their
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 08:57 PM
Feb 2018

job. It anit TV but an investigation done by professionals.

SWBTATTReg

(22,166 posts)
32. You got to remember that he's gotten guilty pleas out of two of them so far...
Sun Feb 4, 2018, 09:27 PM
Feb 2018

and it takes time to process all of the information that these two will provide, which in turn, will lead to other leads that need investigating, and so forth. I also suspect analyzing bank records would take some time also, if they are tracking the flow of money, w/ all of the different international banks at play, and so forth, this could be a pretty tedious and involved step, since some of these banks are probably used to hide illegal drug money, as well as avoiding taxes (I am speculating here). Perhaps akin to turning over a rock, and seeing a bunch of critters go scurrying about to underneath other rocks and so forth. W/ Russian involvement, this could be even more complicated, being that I've heard that they mostly use cash in their transactions, or fronts set up especially for this purpose (to shield origination and/or destination of money).

I would think that he would (Mueller) 'play' the ropes/suspects for as much as he can, so he can get further along into the true originators of the crime(s) committed.

D23MIURG23

(2,850 posts)
37. I don't know Mueller's mind but here is my take...
Mon Feb 5, 2018, 01:48 AM
Feb 2018

The early indictments were a tool to help Mueller secure cooperation from some key players. He managed to flip Papadopolous and Flynn (and possibly also Gates if recent reports are correct). He likely has all the information he needs now to make any other indictments he is pursuing. I think his best strategic move is to hold any further indictments until he is ready to conclude the investigation. The more people he indicts the more likely Trump will be to spook and resort to drastic measures to get rid of him. I think Mueller is trying to quietly tie his loose ends without making too much of a stir. When he's got a complete picture then he'll drop all the indictments at once and exit stage left. And then it will be too late for Trump to quash the investigation.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Is Mueller playing a wait...