I shop in resale stores when I can. I find warm, lined wool slacks. I find warm coats made in the U.S., and well-made at that.

If the retailers want us to buy, they need to offer quality.

They find out. People are addicted to sales
prices and among all products, clothing has risen the least over the last 30 years. When there are spikes in commodities like cotton (maybe 5-6 years back) manufacturers felt forced to thin out the fabrics as much as possible rather than pass their steeply increased costs to the consumer. Only the cheapest retailers like H&M and Old Navy are doing well in this climate. People don’t want to pay much at all.
Only in the highest end designer lines have they held on to any standards.

High end labels aren't even that well made anymore. Clothing isn't that cheap. You will still be playing around $50 for a pair of pants made in a sweatshop. The only difference is the quality has dropped but the prices haven't changed that much.

Labor sources are used. And fibers are commodities that foreign markets control and producers have to commmit in advance. It takes huge buys, earlier to get deals that allow a company to pass along any savings.
And 50$ is no where near high end. Pants costing quadruple that are also made in sweatshops.

Some factories have people eating and sleeping in them because the wages are so low. We’d get white shirts tinged w a peach cast smelling of curry. Markups are all over the place, but it’s a real hit or miss situation.
Now retailers are hurting because people want the savings you get by eliminating the stores themselves. And of course they’ll be unhappy the fit is off, but yeah- they don’t want to spend the time or money to go to a store. Something has to give.

I'm not that clear with my wording sometimes. I meant that $50 is an example what you'll pay for LOW end stuff. That even when companies use sweatshop labor they don't reflect that cheapness in the price. I get your point though.

now w pressure to keep prices low being a driving factor but now Amazon is where everyone wants to be. Aside from store closings, they’re moving as many corporate HQ jobs to Asia and India as they can. Gap just fired 90% of their designers. They’re all trying to use algorithms and key words culled from online searches customers have made instead. The industry used to be the number one employer in NYC and its disappearing fast. They’re talking about a deal with the city to move headquarters to Brooklyn (ironically in a are where the last cutting rooms and factories were) because they want that real estate between Macy’s and Times Square to give to developers.
There less demand too, but generally the low quality retailers like H&M and Old Navy have been the big winners in the last 15 years. So that’s where they all try to go.

And lower cost does not necessarily mean lower quality. To use the above Gap example-- Old Navy is their low end brand, Banana Republic is their high end brand. Old Navy women's jeans-- $20-$30 (per Google shopping) and Banana women's jeans are $98-$110. (Gap is in the middle at $49-89 for a pair of jeans). I've gone into Banana and seen shirts that felt like they'd fall apart in the first wash (machine wash care according to the tag) and I also have Old Navy sweaters old enough to be in high school.

But in terms of the price of clothes. When I was in college at the turn of the century, jeans were around $30-40 not on sale for most mid range brands. Today I see jeans like Levi's go up into the 3 figures at places like Macy's. The job I worked at in college (Kohl's) pay is not very different now than when I was there. People's wages are not increasing, so they can't do something like spend upwards of $100 on jeans when there's other bills to pay.

Clothes are one of the few things I try not to buy online (especially without a good return policy). You can tell the quality of the garmet by feeling it. No photos are going to gage quality.

San Francisco and keeping the whole thing afloat. The only better business that’s doing well for them is Athleta- also in SF. And they’ve held on to great quality. I’m actually agreeing with you about quality, but the other side of that is consumers got addicted to shopping “on sale” and it seriously impacted sales margins. As did giving over a lot of control to overseas vendors.

I worked at a few divisions there so I know, yes they literally threw away the book (we had a big one) on quality standards and let anything go. They didn’t want us to think about quality because they prices and delivery are set so tightly that anything you do to put a monkey wrench in it disturbs their master “plan”. They got mad at me when I pointed out that 10% shrinkage was a lot, and consumers would be angry after purchase. I literally had to was garments and show them before and after to get them to understand. We used to have rules about it- instead of that, you have idiots like me pissing off their bosses for warning them about stuff like that.

The thing is- they don’t have the standards or people in to watch these things for them anymore- those were good salary positions that basically don’t exist these days. Across the industry. Cost and speed to market. Share price. It’s all about short term thinking. But they look at Old Navy in a broad way and think- copy that success, and in general that is way the quality dipped. Banana is moving everyone to SF too- and they were probably some of the smartest most talented people left at Gap corporate after years of layoffs. They and the designers are all being replaced with inexperienced lower paid workers- but only for the jobs they can’t move overseas. So it’s going to get worse.

I’ve watched the decline first hand at both Gap and BR. The leadership at the parent company are about stock price and not product. But look at J Crew, their higher quality stuff bombed because of prices escalating. The business has been in a death spiral for a while, and competitive pricing online is a huge factor. People see things in stores and find a better price on line and shop there. So even when they go to stores they support them less. Local or chains, it doesn’t matter- it’s happenjng to all of brick and mortar stores these days. Overhead is expensive and so is talent. Shoppers are smarter because of the internet but they’re also cheaper and the margins are just not there if they never want to pay retail.

but at better quality. We don't go out as often as when we worked full-time so I don't need as many outfits so the few I have I want nice. And shoes I learned a long time ago, you get what you pay for, the cheap ones fall apart, hurt your back standing all day, etc.

So because of my new way of shopping I go to smaller stores and buy more local. Not all the time but I try.

shops--or sew your own?

When I got out of college in the 70's and went to work I had to wear a suit to work, nice white blouse, nice shoes God forbid, panty hose. It was expensive! There was no casual Friday. Now they wear what they like, I have seen flip flops and denim in places I never thought I would see it. Church, you used to dress up to go to church, no more. Airline travel, society required you wear nice clothes to travel by air. Now it looks like a greyhound bus.

I don't spend nearly what I used to on clothes in the job I have now. Nobody cares what you look like. No wonder the apparel industry is going under. Plus less fabric is needed for clothes for many young people. .

Torture devices for the female gender!!!!

Unless you're Melania Trump and can wear those 6 inch stilettos everywhere you go.

at least not until what you have has turned to rags. I never was much of a clothes shopper (this involved trying them on and looking in a mirror, which always depressed me), but now I've found myself wearing my old clothes until they are on the verge of falling apart. I replace them only when I start looking like a bag lady. On the few occasions when I have had to replace some raggedy item that nobody should wear in public, I have found that the quality has deteriorated. I used to buy things at Land's End, but most of it is flimsy junk now.

why some female acquaintances I've had in the past absolutely loved to shop for clothes, try on 100s of outfits, spend the whole day at the mall, etc. Not my bag! Such a waste of time and $$! Oh well, to each his or her own, right?

But I've never enjoyed it. If I want to buy something I'll go to the store that probably has it; if it fits and I like it I'll buy it and go home. The last place I want to spend the day at is the mall.

Sounds like me at the comic book store.

Now that I'm a size 16 and 20 years older, not so much. I was never obsessed with it though.

I like their Sport Knit pants a lot. I also buy the men's polo short sleeved shirts: better made than the women's and reasonably priced. Good color selection too.

I also buy the women's long-sleeved mock turtleneck shirts and the genuine turtleneck shirts. They hold up well.

Their knit nighties are very nice. Every now and then they have some really pretty prints in a light weight flannel that I love.

I get them straight out of the catalog and now that I know how the sizes work, they fit great.

Great winter coats, boots, sweaters and cotton tops.

And, if you wait, you can get 30 - 40% off when they have sales (which they regularly do).

Workout swim suits from Lands End because they hold up to the chlorine in a pool better than the flimsy shitty stuff they sell at the malls. Plus they fit better. I swim laps 2-3x a week.

Not in the least bit attractive as IMO those types of pants make it look like you're wearing a saggy diaper. Exhibit a-- Justin Bieber


http://wheretoget.it/explore/justin-bieber-menswear-drop-crotch-pants

Everything is black or in bland colors, pants plain with no prints and no color choices. I do like to dress and I see most people just throw on anything, no thought to style or coordination. There are so many beautiful colors available and all are ignored in department stores and designers.

that I've taken a liking to, lately, is scarves, which seem to have made a comeback.

You can buy so many pretty ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, that really spiff up an outfit (oh man does that saying make me sound old??)

many prefer solids over prints and I tend to see lots of black and dark blue. I love a good print and I love bold colors. It's not that I want people looking at me, it's just that color makes me happy. I am far from a clothes horse and I do tend to go more hippy style than anything else but I also don't care what other people think about my clothing choices.

Older women do not want to wear that junk, but for some reason that is what is available in mid-range stores for older women.

Cheerful well-made clothing from Sweden.

She is a Swedish designer and has lots! of color.
I usually go to her store in NYC about once a year and get a few outfits. They generally wear like iron.

www.gudrunsjoden.com

They have fantastic prints and the clothes are good quality.

Most Americans look badly dressed now a days. Too many look like they grew up deep in the back woods. A lot of older men look like old gold diggers with scraggly ugly beards and disheveled clothes. Just plain unkempt.

Popular. I like trimmed beards, but I can't stand the scraggly ones.

Seeing a man in a suit and tie or tuxedo with unkempt facial hair just turns me OFF, but I see it often. I'm think a well groomed beard is attractive, but the guys that never trim it or let it grow down their neck or up their cheeks - YUCK.

Plus, when I see the stubble I just think about how it feels. A friend's stubble faced boyfriend stole a kiss from me at a party once. It was like kissing a boar bristile hair brush.

Last time I was there for some reason, l couldn't believe how people were dressed. Most looked like they were coming off the beach or on their way to the crab shack to dig into some hardshells.
What are they saving their long pants and presentable shirt for?

To only offer cheap import crap that would not even have been worth putting in the "Imperfect Section" years ago at retail stores. Even the dirt cheap crap years ago was a lot better than the garbage they claim is premium today. But hey, Wall Street thinks it knows what is best for you.

I see clothing in the stores that’s rumpled and looks like it won’t survive a single washing. Even some “good” brands offer flimsy clothing.

Some get reports - fake ones generated by the manufacturer- to save them costs. Shit the one time I enquirered about length shrinkage - and found out it was 10%- (which used to be a failing grade) they ended up reprocessing the fabric for less shrinkage, and I thought they would fire me for it. No one pat me on the back, because it cost to do it. They’d rather sell crap.

the whole tyranny about clothes. Had to have this to be cool, blah, blah. And it would constantly change. I remember the hip huggers where you have to wear body suits they were so low, and then you have to have clogs, and then earth shoes, and then flannel shirts. I'm glad to hear it that clothes are not the big deal now.

Danskin body suits and clogs...and Birkenstocks for us weirdos.

My favorite pair looked like Wallabys.

Today's manufacturers wouldn't know a properly-designed man's suit if one wandered up and bit them in the ass.

I think I have enough clothes to last the rest of my life.

Generally, only when everything is completely worn out.

That hasn't happened for about 10 years.

$50 T shirts, $250 jeans and shoes, just to much money. I shop sales, coupons, year end etc. If I need something.

That's what the article is about, right? I didn't read it...

I buy when they have sales only.

I'm stocked up now. Got myself 6 pair of new pajamas (end of winter sale).

Very nice quality and will last for years!

I like nice clothes even though I no longer work.

Can't take the San Franciscan out of me.

I still like to shop, and I still seek out quality. I'd far rather pay three or four times for something I'm going to wear frequently than I would for something made by people earning crap wages and out of materials that's going to rip apart on the third wearing.

The U.S. also has a serious problem in that designers simply will not create clothes that fit or flatter the average American woman. I've heard Tim Gunn rant on this more than once.

wages. It’s alwasy been a fact of life, working in a factory line that is just a bare step up above substance farming. Less dependent on the weather for a reliable paycheck and a bit less back breaking. Many labels are deceptive about where things are made. If parts are cut in Italy, they are often shipped to Eastern Europe for assembly but marked made in Italy. China actually makes most of the high end stuff now, and send of the popular priced things to be made in Vietnam and other smaller countries in the area. Next up, Africa. Wherever the population can be exploited. Textiles made wherever environmental regulations are lax enough. It’s a dirty business.

but it's difficult. If I was faced with a choice between two similar items knowing I might have to pay a few dollars more for one because the person who was made it earned a better wage than the person who made the other one, I'd do so in a split second. It's the same choice I make when I pay $5 more for a book at a local bookstore than somewhere else (and I buy a lot of books), knowing that more of that money will stay in my local economy.

especially for clothes (because it’s chiefly women and children exploited there) it breaks my heart that they don’t make the connection to exploiting poverty and exporting jobs overseas to the most vulnerable populations. The less we demand prices to go, the more the cycle continues. There is no easy answer. I do appreciate you’re trying, so thank you!

Now I just can't pull it off.

for my teenager and had choices of unlined, cheaply made (and cheap-looking) dresses in excess of $60. Seriously, they were like ill-fitted (just like a sack!) and the material was just an ordinary blend that wouldn't last much longer than a season.

Why spend that much? I did finally find something on sale, that will also only last a season - but at least was cute (form-fitting, she's 15 and cute! No sack necessary .

As for me? I buy some things, and make others myself. I also go to the thrift stores. Just last week I scored a new (NEW) pair of North Face shoes for $6.00 (they retail at over 100).

It's called 'My Closet" and the bargains are amazing. Free.

However, I'm wearing a new sweatshirt now. It's a Women's March 2018 one.

Rayon has come roaring through stores of all sorts in the last few years. Where I could once find a good quality cotton tshirt, I now find flimsy rayon blends that are see through. Fuck no, I am not buying more of this shit quality clothing that requires me to buy extra pieces to wear under it so I can stay warm and not flash my nips. Seriously, if you want to buy a simple shirt these days you need to buy a tank/cami to go under it because everything is see through. Same for pants, especially trendy leggings. Manufacturers have given up on quality and are instead selling shit pieces for the same high prices.

A large percentage of people want money for food, housing, medical, and perhaps some non-essentials. Having money for nice clothes was important when Americans believed they could work hard and live a prosperous life. Stylish clothing helped achieve better opportunities. When Walmart offers the best jobs in town and people work 60 hours a week to eat and for a place to live, stylish clothing is an unneeded luxury.

Years ago, I remember being advised that 25% was the right amount of one's income to budget for housing. Later, it was 1/3. Now, with wages stagnating and housing costs continuing to rise, it's getting harder and harder to keep a roof over one's head and still have enough money left for anything but the bare necessities. Just how bad it is varies from place to place, but it's a major problem in a lot of places.

My daughter took forever to move out, because rents are so expensive in our area compared to the kind of entry level, chickenfeed jobs she was able to get. Add to that kind of student loan debt some young people are carrying, and a lot of them are squeezed pretty tight.

affluent parents are very conscious of prices from spending the gift cards they've gotten over the years (cash gifts go in their savings accounts).

That's for toys so far, not clothes, but malls aren't going to be selling designer jeans for gosh only knows how much to these kids when they hit their teens. They're not immune to brands, but retailers are going to have a tough time retraining their generation to anything like the consumerism destroyed by growing up in tight, even hard times.

Had TONS of women's clothes that kept getting cheaper as closing date came near. Bought bagfuls of stuff, mostly tops and sweaters. Not buying clothes again until after I retire, when my wardrobe will be strictly jeans and t-shirts.
I think a lot of it is more casual clothes at work. A wonderful trend.

I wear only jeans, and I buy them only when I have to. There are almost no sales on Levis, and so I know that the local outfitters shop (locally owned) will probably have the best price and the size I need. No shopping needed.

As with jeans, I buy shirts only when needed, only when the ones I have wear out, and then I buy them online on sale. Not on sale? I can wait.

Underwear. I recall that Warren Buffet has his underwear scale - the more confident we feel about the economy, the more men buy underwear. Me? I buy only when I have to, and only what I have bought before. No exploring options needed.

Socks? I leave those purchases to my wife, as she is a sock fanatic. Again, she waits for online sales.

Given my late middle age habits, why would I even think about going to a mall? And I don't think I'm alone in this. Maybe my demographic is irrelevant, but more people are aging, and as long as a decent proportion are like me, that's going to have a negative impact.

Millennials? Although they may be in the work force and need updated clothes more regularly, I would posit that their purchases are down for the same reason that they're not buying homes. Student loans. Work that occupies far more than a 40-hour work week, and priorities that were different from mine at their age.

I guess pro athletes and recording stars never got that memo...

Work attire is more casual now. When i started working as a bank teller in 1993, I had to wear a suit and tie to work during the weekdays (we were allowed to wear a company polo on Saturdays). So, for an $8.50/hr job I was required to wear a suit (not complaining though, it was a different era. I worked 24/hrs a week, receive healthcare, dental, retirement plan and use of the corporate condos! Awesome for a college kid).

Later, as an attorney, I wore a suit every day. Now though, I can show up to work in jeans and a t-shirt and only wear suits to court or mediations, etc. So yes, i spend less money now because society has changed.

As to the articles' discussion of retail establishments, I almost never buy clothes from them now because the quality is crap. I can buy better quality clothes from small establishments on the internet (18oz. denim wears a lot better than the thin stuff they sell in department stores).

Part of this may be my age (GenX), but I notice that some trends tend to hang on longer, especially if they don't require one to look like a teenager to pull off. It's easier to put together a modern wardrobe that's comfortable, flattering and won't go out of style in a couple of years, so there's less need to shop as frequently.

Is it the chicken or the egg?

Have Americans stopped caring because Fashion died? Or has Fashion died because (face it: White) Americans stopped giving a fuck about how they look? Because by and large, they look bad: overweight, haggard, with ill-fitting, ill-considered clothing choices. Sports team apparel at any opportunity. Mickey Mouse sweatshirts. Baseball caps inside.

You don't have to wear suits, but come on. Pajama bottoms are not professional attire. There should be some standards, even if they're self-imposed.

Oh, and Old People: you shrunk. Your clothes don't fit any more.

The attention economy has it's repercussions here. Facebook, Instagram, Twitter are what make a person now, not clothes. People are spending more time and money online than anywhere else. You go out to eat not to dress up, see or be seen in new duds, but to take a picture of your food and tag yourself in a trendy restaurant not in trendy clothes

Last edited Mon Feb 5, 2018, 09:41 PM - Edit history (1)

I agree most of the stuff I see is ugly and cheaply made, and I will go further and say women will never be taken seriously as long as they are slaves to "fashion"

I tried to shop online.

Clothes are expensive and fit is everything.

clothing to a resale shop. They refused it because it didn't look current enough.

Well, that's because most of the pieces were classic, timeless items, like pastel and bright linen blouses, etc. I looked around the store, and it was stuffed with trendy, poorly sewn, cheap clothing in colors about as appealing as dirt.

My 87 year old mom asked me to sew a seam in a pair of pants she likes to wear. She said she bought them when Target first opened - in the 60's. They look new.

a grey tee or pumps that last for five or more years. I might buy a couple updated pieces each season. Consignment or Ebay always.

I can only speak for womans fasion but to me the problem is that these stores sell crappy clothing at high prices.

Cheap, ugly clothing is the majority in fashion. Thin, transparent fabric is used for almost everything. I can't tell you how many times I've picked up a t-shirt only to find it's short and uncomforable and rides up because the manufacturer wanted to save on material. Really ugly patterns on most of them too.

A lot of stores are terrible at stocking a decent range of styles and sizes too.

I try to give retailers a fair chance but when I go to like 7 stores and can't find what I want then what do you expect me to do?

Departments are messy and dressing rooms are worse. I worked in retail for 13 years back in the 70s and 80s. There was always at least 1 salesperson per department and a cash register. Now you're expected to haul the things you want to buy to a station to be checked out and there's usually a line.

Blue Jeans and a flannel shirt, cost $2.98. Bought at Salvation Army on a day when everything was 50% off, except furniture.

Socks, about a dollar, bought a six pack of white socks for about $6.

Bra, expensive, needed one after losing so much weight $20 at Macy's had $10 off coupon and used a $400 visa card, I received after moving my fios to my mom's new apt.

Shoes, bought them about 10 years ago from L.L. Bean for I think $19.99. They're a pair of of their mocs.

Used clothing for me. I've got my boyfriend shopping at Salvation Army too.

The jeans are Lee's and the flannel shirt is from L.L. Bean

I also like to dress up. I think the big problem, at least with regards to women's fashion, is the use of Asian models when fabric is cut and sized. I'm a Mediterranean European which means I have hips, waist and breasts. Most clothes nowadays are made to fit a smaller-boned woman with almost no hips and no breasts.
If I go a size up, then it's tent-like for me. Of course, if I want something that fits well I have to spend hundreds (and I won't) or get it tailored (also expensive). It's very frustrating to find something that fits my hourglass body type and doesn't cost a fortune.

I save more than I spend!!

I can buy one for $25, tops, at Salvation Army or another thrift shop? Better made. 100% pure wool, satin lining. Very warm. New coats have fabric reminiscent of felt and can't keep you warm.