Maybe the Fairness Doctrine should be reinstated?

How about bringing back the limitations on media ownership?

Their key demographic is elderly and white and slowly but surely dying off. They’ll hide behind the First Amendment and survive. Unfortunately.

Why not ?

mass political propaganda illegal.

mass lies and deceptions to audiences of certain sizes or other pertinent criteria (such as a percentage of residents of a single county or interest group). Normal free speech, including political and activist, would be protected scrupulously, as would speaking truth. Secessionists could still discuss their plans for armed rebellion on CSPAN (as long as it didn't proceed to the illegal active planning stage, as now). But an individual person's pernicious lies could be cut off if influence was large enough to be deemed inimical political discourse.

Special courts kept busy of course.

Seems like a good idea now, but What about when a Trump administration is in charge, and they decide that MSNBC is propaganda?

The rationale for the fairness doctrine was "scarcity of outlets". That worked with broadcast television, but it wouldn't work with cable (and it probably wouldn't work with broadcasting anymore either).

maybe fewer of them white, but I think a lot of people change with age regardless of race. "Get off my lawn" is hollered by every race

There is only one way :

Give access to a good quality education to all kids. And learn them critic sense.
It means more taxes, more involvment of Federal institution but a great result at the end.

While we will never be able to eliminate the influence of propaganda completely, an educated populace with critical thinking skills will blunt the effects.

The reason Conservatives dislike education so much and smear it with "Liberal", is that education creates people who are open to new ideas, people who test their reality, look for verifiable sources, and who do not cling to ideology in the face of new information. In other words, education tends to make you more liberal.

You are SO right. I don’t think people appreciate how dangerously terribly horrifically bad they are!! Evil!!! And not in the cool way.

If you forcibly take away something people think they need they will fight back fiercely. If you educate them, while they are still young, in how to recognize and resist propaganda, then they will turn away from Fox of their own accord. That's the only approach that will really work. And it's a long term solution. There are no quick fixes to a problem that took 50 years to grow to its present proportions.

Every day, play some Fox lies, on a split-screen next to the disproof of the lies.

Put it out with millions of Facebook/Twitter bots and overwhelm the RW/RT garbage.

seriously.

Culture jamming, adbusters campaigns... or pivotal moments that capture attention and break through the bubble? One is left with the feeling that if we could only find the right name for it, we could take away its power. Like guessing the name of Rumplestiltskin.

To some extent the right wing media bubble is still backed or funded by a few wealthy ideologues, finding ways to reduce that support would weaken the,defenses of the bubble.

And the fairness doctrine would clearly apply to radio.

I have a cousin who has an hour and a half commute every day. He started listening to right wing radio on his way to and from work. Within 6 months he was a crazy, conspiracy theory, right wing nut job. It was frightening how fast this guy who was a union iron worker and life long democrat turn so quickly.

The problem is there's a market for that misinformation. It's the people who need their news tailored to their beliefs that are a problem, and they aren't going away soon.

People tune in to Fox because it tells them what they want to hear.

Brand them as propaganda machines. March for Truth.

What is needed is a way to inform and educate people who watch Fox and actually believe what they hear there. Once their audience realizes they are being lied to and scammed, that audience will dissipate, and Fox "News" will fade into the sunset due to being commercially no longer viable.

As long as the Fox "News" audience believes what they hear, we will still have tens of millions of voters (and a president) who believe Hannity's pizza parlor conspiracies over Rachel Maddow's debunking of them.

it, require them to show nothing except the correction for 24 hours and to refund any advertising money sold for those 24 hours. Then see how quickly journalistic standards are raised.

They should somehow be relabeled as entertainment viewing... NOT news. This standard should be held up for all broadcast mediums that claim to, or actually do report news. Rewarding lairs, making it okay to lie, especially about something as important as the news only gives us more lairs. There's got to be some kind of consequence for supporting hate, bias, racism misogyny and LYING

Colbert report on steroids. About a news room and all their wild and whacky antics as they try to create and push fun propaganda. Keep them short to match people's attention spans and throw them up all over the internet. Throw in some celebrity spots/interviews and you will have something people will watch.
One of the best ways to fight propaganda is to treat it like a joke and let people see how stupid it really is

Look at how they dress the women on their programs. Show a lot of leg, talk tough like "manly men" and there you have it. People who run to this stuff are weak of mind and easily turned. Murdoch knows his audience and he has an agenda.

Plus Colbert only showed the news portion. Make it show more of the whole news propoganda process. From some crazy propaganda writers to the producers and to the ridiculously stereotypical newscasters. Make any character that comes in from the outside world be like wtf is going on in here.

laughed at, the more at least some of their viewers will want to leave that trap.

Rolling Stone about a year ago and he said that until you turn off all the Fux Ruse Shows on all the TVs in all the bars, etc. not much change will happen in politics in the US. He didn't say how to do that though.

I ask them to turn on the weather channel. It's non-political, and no one can object to the weather channel. Everyone is interested in the weather.

whose office staff would not change the channel. I refuse to sit there and watch Faux, even if it is only for ten minutes.

In the period after 2001 all the tv's in all the buildings that had them were on Faux Noise 24/7/365.

Even my local Dodge dealership has theirs tuned to it in the waiting room.

Every time I go to a place that has them on a screen, if able I find the remote and put a lock out on the station with my own code.

I've done it a few times now.

Priceless.

I changed it to ESPN. I figure the wingnuts wouldn't complain if sports were on.

Try to buy it or get Apple or Gates to buy it and turn it into a public company run by a consortium of journalism departments to train up and coming reporters.

I think this is the only viable solution.

people saw the other one so if they write it again AND get to put in all these "news show hosts" who are actively trying to stop an investigation into an attack on our United States by a hostile foreign country. Link them to Putin because they are.

It has also now been covered enough up to now how Fox treats women like sex symbols and make them wear tight fitting miniskirts when the men just wear regular suits. Fox news flaunts it sexual harassment right in front of all their viewers to see.

Just imagine a WWII vet or a Cold Warrior popping out of the grave to find out that one of the top-ranked 'news' streams pumping opinion into the US might very well be a goddamned Russian psyop because it's owned by an Australian Nazi and the Saudi Royal Family and they're maybe on the Dark Side because they don't have a molecule of American Patriotism betwen them.

Let's check with General Patton on this one and see how he feels. You know, the guy who turned out to be right after all when he thought we should just get it over with when it came to the #$%ing Russians.

It's a logical first step.

Better shut down the BBC & Al Jazeera too. Apparently you never heard about the first Amendment

those are NOT foreign owned US news corporations, FauxNooz is. Got another one to try?

I think you will agree with it

and has been for more than 30 years.

Not a single Deplorable is aware that their flag-waving patriotic 'news' source is foreign.

Good lord, if only we actually had a BBC.

government, as their target?


I have to admit here I have a bias against fox news, I think it is a horrible organization designed to destroy my country, so my take on this may be different than someone else here.

of Human Beings.

Obviously there's a HUGE grey area and overlap and diversity of opinion, but I fully believe there's a major genetic/evolutionary heritage component involved.

There are two fundamental survival strategies for an individual among 'higher' i.e. 'social' animals. And that's what we are. Animals.

Imagine you're a chimp, and you're effectively a 'sentry' for your little tribe/family ... not necessarily because it's some Planet of the Apes organized thing, but you're at the edge of your group, you got your mate and kids i.e. you family nearby, eating fruits up in the tree ... and you become aware of another, what sounds like a LARGE group of other Chimps, from the adjacent forest, coming your way.

You can either ... perk up your ears, look at your mate, and kids, and see that they're all alarmed ... and think to yourself 'lets shut the f*** up, not call attention to ourselves, and BAIL, and save our own asses' ... OR you can be a member of the COMMUNITY and think to yourself 'We are ALL in danger! Our whole group, our extended family! We must hoot and chant and raise the alarm far and wide, and we must either fight, or flee ... TOGETHER'. At much larger risk to you, and yours.

This latter way of thinking ... this is a far newer evolutionary development. A Snake, or Lizard, doesn't do this. Birds ... many of them might, but not all species, and not always, just like a Chimp may or may not. Thinking of the 'larger population' than 'you and yours' ... it's not a first impulse for all individuals ... the tendency to 'save oneself', and your young especially if you're a mama ... is a powerful, ingrained impulse that basically fueled evolution. 'Care' for 'community' is much newer and sophisticated, and MUCH less ingrained our genes.

Compete, or cooperate is what it comes down to. Fox News, and general right-wing thinking ... is more akin to that of the simple 'lizard brain', and a more-or-less self-preservation/primal driven instinct to protect/save 'that which I see as directly MINE/of ME'. And it's VERY easily manipulated, because it's one impulse we ALL have and it's well understood by propagandists and those who seek to manipulate for personal gain.

Whereas Liberal thinking ... is thinking of a far more evolved sort. Not only thinking of our own self, or our family, or even of just our little band of chimps in the local trees, but ALL of humanity. Community. Cooperation. Obviously, a Chimp would be dumb to think at that level, there is no world community of Chimps. For a Chimp, the Liberal is the one who calls out to everyone rather than slinking off on his/her own and not risking dying for the rest.

Bottom-line ... some are more evolved in this particular regard ... than others. It's really that simple. You aren't going to get the Fox phenomenon to go away because Humans are animals, and we have absolutely not 'shed' our primitive survival genes. These tell us to think 'that which is not me/mine' is a threat. It's every creature for themselves.

Thinking 'more deeply than that' is but a scratch on our overall genome, comparatively. That's why we on the Left ... have to fight for every small victory. It's also why we're capable of pondering 'abstracts' like 'the future of humanity', whereas you'll NEVER HEAR those words uttered by a Right-Winger because that notion? It basically doesn't exist to them as a concept. There is 'them', and perhaps their living progeny at that moment. That is what 'matters most', Period. Hence 'family values'.

Their minds are just not inherently wired to extend very far out beyond 'my small circle' thinking. Though that can be extended to really obvious things like 'My Race' and 'My Country', these 'me-isms' have to be very obvious/advantageous to be embraced.

And this current civilization developed before the natural world 'evolved' those genes away ... not that it ever actually would have, or even necessarily should have. But it's where we are. Fox exists because we're animals, it's that simple. What it represents ... it's not going away.

They literally cause families to be torn apart.

Is for fox to start slowly moving left. And the knuckle dragging sheep will follow.

Hell if they can put INforwars stickers on traffic signs, why not these

little to do.

If we were able to put fairness doctrine back in the FCC, then lots of the bullshit could be slowed a bit. I just don't see it happening. Power of propaganda to important for corporations and the wealthy to give up

None of my business what others do

country destroying propaganda has been normalized into something called "news".

I do not

If I was so inclined, that would be like me asking you if you support propaganda.

Either you believe in free speech or you don't. Pretty sure many RW think this site is propaganda

I for one happen to believe in free speech. Reading the posts here many do not share my opinion. See #35

and yell I've got a gun and all you fuckers are going to die! Then claim it is your right of free speech to do so, because even though most people would think you are creating an illegal disturbance, you think it is your right of free speech. Then explain that to the cops as they throw you in jail. Then, explain that to the judge.

I infer absolutes as well, regardless of accuracy or fallacy... it allows us to validate both our narratives and our righteousness that much easier.

What do YOU propose "we"do?

It's really that simple. Once we're back in total control (2020) we should power of the people behind us to completely crush the GOP and their media. We can pass laws basically outlawing conservative viewpoints as hate speech. Once that's accomplished we can move on to beating down religion as hate speech.

In the next 10 years the day of old white people will finally come to an end and we'll have total control of our country for the first time ever...By 2025 or so they'll be too weak to resist.

Last edited Wed Feb 7, 2018, 12:23 AM - Edit history (1)

I hope your post was sarcasm.

but you have no right to force others to watch news you like. What has happened to my country?

know how. I go to the gym and I am on the Stairmaster the Today show is on the TV. I look away for a second and when
I look back there is Fox News. I look around and don't know who asked to have the channel changed and there are
10 other people not saying anything. One day there was a lady on the machine next to me and she asks if I cared if she
had the channel changed. I just said no and got off the machine and walked away pissed off assuming she would put Fox News on.
Later I notice she had it changed to HGTV, feeling like an ass I went back and apologized. I said I was sorry about being rude
I thought you were going to change it to Fox like everyone else does around here. The guy at the mall that sells Comcast, Dish and
Direct TV has several TVs around the mall, he keeps each one on a different channel but the one in the food court is always on Fox.
I mentioned to him one day about him having Fox on all the time and he did put CNN on a day or two. Then I see Fox is back again so I asked him why he had Fox News on again and he said because people complained about him having the Clinton News Network on.
Every McDonald's I have ever been in that has a TV it is always on Fox News. Beats me what you can do.

What is Fox News worth? I have no idea. But, if enough money could be raised, it could be bought and then shut down. That's how you do that.

and even then I suspect he will create some sort of trust to ensure that it survives under the control of right wingers.

After Disney gives him billions, it will only get worse as he keeps his news outlet playthings to advance his political power. I wouldn't be surprised if he uses his Disney stock to buy more of the Fox News spin off.

couldn't hack into their system.

We need critical thinkers, not sheep.

Its the older folks who tend to get sucked into the bullshit.

Faux audience isn't millineals.

The right doesn't worry about infringing on our 1st amendment rights when they buy a station, shut down our progressive voices and turn it into a sports station. They just do it.

We complain, but they don't care.

Why are we so afraid to fight back?

If we focused on any one person/station/show, we could shut down advertising until the show disappears. People power. Then move to another.

pop up in its place. Obviously they get enough revenues to sustain the stations on Fox. Best bet is to start boycotting the businesses/others advertising on Fox. A boycott was somewhat effective on breitbart news.

Also, perhaps writing each of the local Fox news affiliates and complaining might work. We do outnumber these guys.

Overall, I think money (via boycotts) would probably work best. After all, Murdock would have to keep paying his bills while revenues go down and down.

The only thing Murdoch will respond to is MONEY. Boycott everything -- Faux Noos sponsors, yes, but everything else as well. Don't watch anything FOX ... and watch ratings tumble.

I wish somebody with the know-how and resources to promote that would get it going. We have no choice but to do something. Hitting their pocketbook hard would have the most immediate impact

And then OANN?

And then Breitbart?

You're gonna be busy.

attack on public education over the past 35 years, the movement to the right re: taxes and economic policy over the past 35 years, etc.? Do you have one besides "vote Democrat" which has been an ephemeral solution at best in the past? There's a reason people haven't fallen in line on that.

...First, keep in mind that we're not trying to win the base Fox News audience; we're trying to win BACK the middle of the road voters that don't obsessively watch hours of cable news in the first place.

...Second, if you don't want the other side making legal judgements about the news sources YOU ingest, you can't do it either.

Thank you.
It amazes me how a site devoted to people who support equal rights & free speech for everyone can quickly turn to large numbers of people wanting to silence or actually ban those who disagree with them.
Which is a lot like what many on the far right want to do.

truth-in-packaging lawsuit over their use of the word "News."

If the refuse, don't give them your business.

...getting rid of it won't mean you won't have conservatives to deal with.

To paraphrase the NRA: "The only way to stop a bad person with free speech is with a good person with free speech".

Forcing my TV station to carry a show that loses money simply because its the opposite point of view of another show I carry would likely be tossed as unconstitutional anyway.

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence." Justice Louis Brandeis, Whitney v. California.

I boycott it everyday.

...AAAAAGGGHHHH! It didn't work!

When they get it wrong, it's up to the left to hold them accountable.

It might be hard to sue a network, but it's not impossible. Moreover, if they get tangled up in enough lawsuits, even ones that don't go far - it will remind them to try just a bit harder. And if one or two well-placed suits hit them for substantial losses --- well, that will get their attention.

Well, I'm sort of hoping that they damage someone else's reputation through slander (I don't think they'll be reporting on me, anytime soon .

I know it's a hard case, but surely they've engaged in this once or twice in their storied business-career.

to make a case about slandering a public figure.

There has to be some folks out there that are radical. We seen it before. Not another country necessarily. I know it's illegal but stranger things have happened.

I understand why many people dislike and even hate Fox News but to recommend setting the building on fire and shooting Fox News employees as they run out is to say the least a bit extreme.

Some person with serious mental issues might actually try to do something like that.

At the very minimum I would suggest you add a thingy to your post.

The biggest problem with "getting rid of Fox News" isn't that we are at least nominally on the side of free speech. The Constitution doesn't say "you have freedom of speech as long as I approve of what you say." There are a BUNCH of people on the other side of the Grand Canyon that passes for political discourse in the 21st Century who would gleefully wrap a roll of duct tape around your liberal mouth and mine for talking about abortion rights, gay rights and how much we like Hillary Clinton.

The real issue - and this one is enormous - is Fox News is the quietest pipe in the Mighty Wurlitzer. The real action is online. An easy example is Glenn Beck. After he got kicked off Fox News, he started The Blaze and went even farther to the right than he was on Fox. Look at Jim Bakker. At Alex Jones. Limbaugh. Adam Kokesh. If we shut down Fox, the people who currently watch Fox will find InfoWars or Adam vs the Man.

Another example: Last week I talked about Heather Ann Tucci-Jarraf and Randall Beane, two sovereign citizens who were convicted of trying to rob a bank with a cellphone. The logical person would think, "they got convicted of trying to use the secret accounts that no one I know has ever been able to get into. Maybe those accounts aren't real after all." The people who believe these accounts exist (pro tip: they don't) now believe one of two things: that the government convicted them to hide the truth of the secret accounts, or Heather just didn't do it right and you can get into the accounts if you really try.

Only if the hard right receives a very hard, PERSONAL setback will they stop to question their beliefs.

I don't mean MSNBC but a show in which we present what Fox news claimed for that day and we show clips to discredit their claims. Deplorables won't stop watching Fox but if there was a show as this on every public space then it may help.

Liberals wouldn’t watch because they don’t watch Fox News. Conservatives wouldn’t watch because they watch Fox News. Middle of the road voters wouldn’t watch because they’re not hung up on political cable news.

They should not be allowed to tell blatant willful lies on national television and pass it off as news without being fined.

The only "lies" that are actionable are those that constitute defamation. Otherwise you can lie your ass off all day.

first amendment to do so. You can lie your ass of on a street corner someplace, but you shouldn't be able to do it on national television while passing it off as news.

Maybe you shouldn't be able to lie on TV but it isn't illegal for cable stations to do it. Here's what the FCC, which regulates only broadcast media and not cable, has to say about it:

There are any number of cases holding that cable tv has first amendment rights closer to those accorded the print media than broadcasting. The underlying basis for applying the fairness doctrine to broadcasting was the "scarcity of broadcast spectrum" -- something that is inapplicable to cable.

I've been practicing law in the area for years. It's a no-brainer that any attempt to regulate the content of the speech on a cable network would be struck down.

As the Supreme Court has stated "A responsible press is an undoubtedly desirable goal, but press responsibility is not mandated by the Constitution and like many other virtues it cannot be legislated."

to compare it to fox is like comparing apples to oranges. If Fox news comes out and openly admits their fake news than I want have a problem with them either.

...and point to definition of satire that all parties can agree to.

It's the alphabet cable news networks that have been so cowed by bogus charges of liberal bias that they bend over backwards to normalize this abnormal shit.

We may be at gallows time for all of them.

CNN Jake Tapper just had Scaramuci on.

In a fucking sane world, this fucker would be sniveling to save himself from the guillotines... NOT being fucking paid attention to

If he's following the evidence wherever it leads...it'll assuredly lead to FOX. And since they are an entertainment outlet and not a news outlet, their legal protections are far more limited.

But the bigger problem is the younger generations either getting their news from Fake news sites, conspiracy sites or not even bothering to follow the news. Many people I know don’t even have cable anymore.

Then we could get in it, set it for August 1939 in Warren, OH and try to prevent Roger Ailes' parents from creating him.

I see dozens of posts about infotainment here. Our very own allies on MSNBC are all part of the same institution. Playing along with the capitalistic model of what should be a public service has backfired. I don't know how we find our way out of it, but we are all part of what created and protects Trump.

You boycott their advertisers! Every company that's running advertisement on fox is supporting their attacks on the FBI! Tweet them, email them, write them, and avoid buying any product that chooses to support their radical views.

That is the only way to kill it, or force it to change.

My brother thinks that watching Fox and CNN gives you both sides of the news. He often watches OAN. If Fox goes, folks will just watch OAN.

it makes people walk in lock step to the fearless Leader! Boycott, you could not make we watch it ever! Never have never will!

talking points?

...maybe we need to boycott the sponsors for specific and especially dangerous hosts. ..like Tucker and Hannity. Wait for an especially incendiary comment or behavior and start the boycott letters. I never tell a company I am actually going to boycott their product if I'm really NOT going to. I try to appeal to their better angels and say their image has faded in my eyes...I no longer share my positive experience about their product with my friends or on social media....blah blah blah.

Anyway..Bill O is gone...and Glenn Becks gone....Rush is gone....lets get Hannity and Tucker out of there.

REMEMBER THERE ARE MORE OF US!!!