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onenote

(42,768 posts)
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:35 PM Feb 2018

Prediction: Trump and his lawyers will claim that today's indictments exonerate Trump

You know they will.
They will say that the indictments don't name anyone connected with the Trump campaign or, indeed, any US citizens (other than unnamed US persons who apparently were duped by the Russian conspirators).

They will say that the Russians named are not identified as Russian government actors and there is no allegation that the conspiracy was organized or directed by the Russian government.

They will say that if there was any evidence of Trump's campaign or the Russian government being involved it would be reflected in the indictment.

Mark my words. This is exactly how they will play it.

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The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,858 posts)
1. Rosenstein is being very careful to point out
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:38 PM
Feb 2018

that the indictment does not charge that any American knowingly participated in the conspiracy, or that the conspiracy actually affected the outcome of the election. The Trumpists will pounce on this, of course. I wonder if Rosenstein is trying to save his hide by pointing this out?

But, since the indictment was directed to those 13 Russians and no one else, there would be no reason to make such a claim in this indictment. If it does turn out that Americans were involved, they would be separately charged and indicted. This indictment has to do with grass-roots activities. If high-level Trump campaign personnel were involved, that is probably still being investigated, and those people would be indicted separately.

onenote

(42,768 posts)
11. If Americans were part of the same conspiracy, wouldn't they be named in the same indictment?
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:48 PM
Feb 2018

The gap in all of this is the absence of any reference to the Russian government. Why would this group undertake a conspiracy to impact the US elections if they weren't acting at the direction or and/or on behalf of the Russian government? It's just not believable that Russian government actors didn't have a hand in this and if they did, that is where the Trump campaign could come into play.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,858 posts)
14. Not necessarily. This indictment addresses only part of the conspiracy -
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:52 PM
Feb 2018

the part involving these 13 Russians' manipulating social media and organizing fake grassroots events. There was much more that the indictment didn't cover, including the DNC email hack and the contacts with Trump campaign people. I think we should anticipate more indictments.

Blaukraut

(5,695 posts)
3. The fact that the Trump campaign was warned about Russian meddling
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:41 PM
Feb 2018

sort of takes away that talking point.

onenote

(42,768 posts)
5. Do you think that will stop them from making that argument?
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:42 PM
Feb 2018

I'm not saying that how they play it reflects the truth; I'm just predicting what they say.

Blaukraut

(5,695 posts)
7. Of course not. And their base will believe it and hang their hats on it.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:44 PM
Feb 2018

I just hope that Mueller is still holding his trump card (pun intended) for later use.

 

djg21

(1,803 posts)
6. It confirms Trumps illegitimacy
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:43 PM
Feb 2018

I hope he and his dumbfuck family all have to seek asylum in Russia soon.

TeamPooka

(24,256 posts)
9. Nope. Trump can't talk about this at all. It goes against his narrative that Russia did NOT
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:46 PM
Feb 2018

interfere in the election at all and taint his Presidency.
This says they did.
He will ignore completely.

SWBTATTReg

(22,166 posts)
12. I think you're right, tRUMP will part the seas and all is well w/ him and ...
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:48 PM
Feb 2018

his buddies, that they have been cleared of any wrong doing.

Of course this tRUMP argument will fade to nothingness as his argument will fall on deaf ears, he's cried wolf too many times, and the overwhelming amount of evidence against so many defendants will be hard to ignore, with so many links between the tRUMP organization and Russian players (way too many to be pure coincidences, isn't it?).

haele

(12,679 posts)
13. Well, it keeps Drumpf from working to fire Rosenstien and Mueller right now.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 02:50 PM
Feb 2018

Repeating that "No Drumpf campaign people" on this indictment will keep him from getting nervous and shutting the whole thing down before they have all the evidence in place.

But the indictment does make it clear that the there were "organizations of Russians" had an interest in getting Drumpf elected - going after those who could possibly beat him during the primaries, and by extension, the general election. It's not going to be surprising at all to a reasonable person when connections start being made between the Drumpf campaign and those backing those Russian propaganda organizations.

Haele

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