may be impossible to say...but clearly many, many votes were changed or prevented from being cast.

Why else were the Russians spending millions a month supporting Trump in a coordinated and secret attack on democracy whose impact was multiplied by such close coordination?

To change and buy votes, and suppress others.

11K difference? Absolutely.

but the media seems to be towing the no effect line.

didn't check the box at the top of the ballot for president.

Detroit is a majority African-American city and we're supposed to believe that thousands of black people who made the effort to get to the poll and stand in line to vote didn't bother to the check the box for the presidency.

Hell yeah the election was stolen and I believe Stein and her siphoning off of votes of even more was complicit.

I tell ya, they simply can't "go there" because the implications are too great for so many.

But if you're trying to be exact, like Mueller is, he can't say for sure that it swung the election, because we have no way of knowing how the exact number of votes swung by Russian influence.

And to give cover to RepubliCONS. After all, the FBI is still made up of mostly RepubliCON sympathizers. And Dems seem to not care that at least 3 presidencies were stolen from them and what did Dems do in response to the other stolen elections?......not much.

So, it's a win for RepubliCONS on all fronts if they pretend the vote count was NOT rigged. The Dems won't complain, if they do, they will do nothing about it. And people will mostly keep voting and pretending they have a democracy. At least up until Putin claims the US presidency.

where Drumpf won by 44,292 but Stein got 49,941 votes, which was just over twice what she got in 2012. And Johnson got 146,715, which was about 3 times what he got in 2012.

STOLEN!!!,

municipalities like Erie, PA that have been reliably Democratic voters like Philly, Pittsburgh, & Scranton, actually flipped to Drumpf. I remember for some time after the results came in, checking the various counties here in PA and that stood out as a red flag. Granted, people could say - "Well they were losing population and their core industries, etc." But IMHO, the flip by Erie County was barely 2% (1,957 votes). The NYT did an article on them -

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/13/us/politics/pennsylvania-trump-votes.html

I think they fell for the okie doke Russian-bot lies and propaganda, and the NYT article reflects that via the sentiment of many of those interviewed indicating a "lack of trustworthiness" of Clinton, which is pure bullshit.

Losing PA damn near made it impossible to win.

Good luck with that

actually belonged in some sense to Hillary?

green vote.

So that's pretty self-explanatory.

for her fake recount? Yet many posters here on DU gladly did.

OK

to her sucker fans.. and if she hadn't.. they might have been smart enough and caring enough to actually Vote FOR the Planet.

they are saying that more about collusion than effect on the election.

THEY are more to blame than the monsters themselves. We are well aware of their tactics

The media CHOSE to cover/not cover what they did

They ALWAYS do the bidding of the corporations that provide their cushy lifestyles

No modern “journalist” dares jeopardize that

Ask Bob Perry

Assuming all the other state results were the same.

Losing OH-PA-FL pretty much made it impossible for her.

who was the real reason Hillary Clinton lost.

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/372448-longtime-clinton-confidant-blames-comey-for-2016-loss

Clinton was the real math. When there are plans afoot to steal an election via e-fraud/absentee ballots/hanging chads there is always some really fishy October surprise and the press says "Look, the stupid American voters fell for it." When Comey did what he did, I started looking for election fraud.

for a super-power democracy!

There were several poll stations down in Detroit due to broken voting machines. A lot of intimidation too.

to her. An old GOP trick---have a third party left wing splitter on the ballot so a certain number of Dem votes can be shifted. All Russia had to do was pay to put her on the ballot. They can do this again and again in every election, even Congressional ones. All they need is lots of money. And Putin is rich and Russia is a whole country.

this was anything but an honest election.