standing around doing nothing, hiding under your desk, fleeing the scene, etc.

it all amounts to the same thing: cowardice and dereliction of duty.

I want to say he was hiding in the bushes, but I don't know that for sure.

to go into killer’s room.

If he did “wait” 4 minutes out of fear or he froze, I agree with you. But I’d like to hear his side, or see the surveillance video before assuming that.

there were several assailants. I thought most police call in a problem and wait for back up.

I don't know what this mans training was - in this kind of a crisis (I'm sure there was training). I would want to know what it was.

And even then, four minutes is a terribly long time for the killer - moving in the building.
It's a terribly short time if you're trying to figure out the situation - trying to understand the best approach - and calling in the alarm.

I don't want this man to be blamed for the deaths. The person to be blamed is Cruz. The officer is not to blame. He might be responsible for a poor crisis choice. That does not make him a murderer.

I am sad to think he will be saddled with enormous guilt. Many survivors kill themselves, in the after math of an incident like this.

how many shooters there were but could hear that whoever or how many, they were armed with an assault weapon and all he had was a handgun. And now he has to live the rest of his life with the decision he made.

One significant change to police tactics following Columbine is the introduction of the Immediate Action Rapid Deployment tactic, used in situations with an active shooter. Police followed the traditional tactic at Columbine: surround the building, set up a perimeter, and contain the damage. That approach has been replaced by a tactic that takes into account the presence of an active shooter whose interest is to kill, not to take hostages. This tactic calls for a four-person team to advance into the site of any ongoing shooting, optimally a diamond-shaped wedge, but even with just a single officer if more are not available. Police officers using this tactic are trained to move toward the sound of gunfire and neutralize the shooter as quickly as possible. Their goal is to stop the shooter at all costs; they are to walk past wounded victims, as the aim is to prevent the shooter from killing or wounding more. David Cullen, author of Columbine, has stated: "The active protocol has proved successful at numerous shootings during the past decade. At Virginia Tech alone, it probably saved dozens of lives.

He is 58. He was trying to find out what was going on in the school, but only had a pistol, I "think" there was mention of a rifle in the trunk of his car some distance away.
What I have read about the situation so far makes sense for him to wait for back up, against an active shooter with a weapon like the Ar-15. He would have recognized the sound of it, known what was being shot, known he did not have the same firing range.

I think if we check back on other similar shootings, we would see the same reaction. In fact, wasn't there quite a bit of talk about the police who went to teh shooter's floor in Las Vegas, waited for some time to determine if they could get into the room without being slaughtered in a pack?

But he didn't go in.

for all intents and purposes. he must have heard all the screams and/or gunshots going off, yet stood around and did nothing to go after the perp. which is why the sheriff's office suspended him without pay.

He might as well not have been there at all.

First of all, I am inclined to say 'I called it' (the guy fleeing/no-show).
I had suspected it the very next day in fact. I did not post or comment as such because I KNOW this place would attack me for this speculation. Turned out to be correct though.

The above is not posted to say I told you so or 'called it', but to say WHY I suspected it and it gets to the fundamental point.

The fact that he was not counted among the dead was the main reason for my suspicions.

So, I assumed, and I think its a safe assumption, that if he did go in, he'd be among the dead.

I initially couched this suspicion in the scenario that 'would an armed teacher be liable for 'cutting and running' from a hailstorm of bullets? If the lunatics arm the teachers, is this failure a prosecutable offense? Whats the accountability? Same goes for this guy.

He's got to be fired of course, but how many among us would rush into certain death?

Our first responders do it all the time. He completely failed to do his job.

He's a chickenshit. More kids probably died because he failed. His boss says he failed. I can't imagine what the parents of dead kids are thinking about this.

It wasn't. Looking at what they thought was "real-time" coverage, they saw footage of shootings after the shooter had left the building

I don't know what information anyone on the premises was getting, but what they were being told may not have matched what they were observing themselves -- and that could have produced real confusion

not going in right away?

He's got to be fired of course, but how many among us would rush into certain death?

So this one bloke is supposed to go in, guns blazing?

That's the other side. Even a whole squad of heavily armed, armored police waited before going into the Las Vegas Shooter's room.

From what I read, I don't see where the guard ran. If he did run, dye him yellow forever.

But, saying he should have run in blasting away with no visual knowledge of what was happening, is foolish. He might have shot some kids, the shooter might have grabbed hostages and holed up, the damn killer might have been equipped with a bomb and killed 50 more, who here knows.

On the other hand, if he knew there was only one shooter, he had a chance to take him down, or even if he could get a visual to alert backup -- but didn't advance -- I'd agree with the guard's critics.

I'd still like to hear his version.

It was very, very dangerous, sure, but he was presumably trained in active-shooter tactics. A shooter cannot be looking everywhere at once, and ranges would generally be short enough to take a shot if one presented itself. But the guy didn't even try. Didn't even go in to assess the situation, and perhaps render first aid to those already wounded.

I'm trying to generate some sympathy for the guy.... I can't manage it.

A campus with 3000 kids? Obviously his job wasn't to be the primary security for the school, or if it was, they need some more funding. He's lost his job, is going to live with it the rest of his life, and according to history his part of law enforcement has been campus security for all but 5 of his 30+ years as a cop.

But even a coordinated armed security force might not have caught and shot the shooter, as the Broward County sheriff is saying he should have tried to do by himself, regardless. And we don't need to turn schools into armed campuses IMHO.

I know this seems like too moderate of a solution, but banning the sale and manufacture of high-capacity magazines, any form of ammunition or device designed to convert a weapon to bump fire or to belt feed (another common modification), with an eye to technology to trace ammunition sales, and a buy-back program for the magazines (which have a lower market value than the various rifles they go in) paid for by a small excise tax on ammunition sales is what I really think we need to start pushing hard for now. It *should* be attainable as a minimum, even if we want to start out bargaining for more.

If we can't convince them to give up the guns, they should see tbe sense in doing something that would limit the carnage.

Not "hardening" schools. Or expecting the one "good guy with a gun" to go sacrifice himself with little likelihood of success, even if of everyone at the school he was the one who we would expect to do it. The task expected was essentially martyrdom.

On the very first day I was reading online that there was an armed guard and neither the sheriff or the school superintendent would mention it.

and they have body armor!

the officer was wearing a vest and armed with a pistol, and was trained to use it. he certainly had a fighting chance to stop the shooter. OTOH there were unarmed students and teachers who rushed into certain death to save others, while the armed officer stood around with his thumb up his butt.

at the time

Pew, pew, pew! Yaa gunz!

Maybe he'll even walk away from an explosion while putting on shades. Cue CSI music.

I swear, some people.

while eating a sandwich.

I oppose this scapegoating.

What's the point of these armed officers if they will just stand by and listen to children being shot?

Still, I oppose this scapegoating. It's not his fault. It's Cruz's fault.

The sheriff was acting unprofessionally when targeted this officer. We are told, time and time again in these situations, by law enforcement, to withhold judgement until the investigation is complete.

He wanted this out there.
Why ? What's he deflecting attention away from ?

I suspect he has a few skeletons he doesn't want the press to dig up while they research the obligatory puff piece praising his leadership.

Broward County , hmm...

against rifle rounds. It is rated to stop pistol rounds up to .357 magnum. That said, I think he should have tried to engage, although a pistol against and AR-15 is long odds. Still better odds than the kids had.

when he isn't looking, and his attention is focused on firing at the fleeing crowds? or while he is reloading?
doesn't matter what weapon he was using, the perp doesn't have eyes in the back of his head.

the officer didn't even attempt to do that.

This was real life, not a Die Hard movie. The guy had to have been in shock.

imitation of what we see on the screen - a la James Bond and John McClane. We are so brave on our couches.

Who would charge alone with a handgun into a building with an unknown number of assailants firing a semi automatic rifle.

Those saying that is what he signed up for when he became a LEO are wrong. 33 years ago that was not policy and even after columbine and Sandy Hook when policies changed that does not mean human nature did.

I would not be surprised that if he had one of 2 things he would have gone in - a comparable weapon or a LEO partner.

Easy peasy!

One man, alone and with no backup, armored only in a vest not rated to stop ammunition carried by the AR or most rifles at all, with a pistol containing ammo that wouldn't cause damage through a similar vest if an attacker was wearing one, against an unknown number of assailants with an unknown number of weapons and no clear physical description, in a school filled with potential targets and/or friendly fire casualties. Nothing could ever go wrong with that.

Tell ya what. This guy's gotta live with his decision and he's resigned, so why don't you step up to the plate? Go take his job and get on in there, Skippy! What are you doing out here, being a keyboard-warrior? They'll even give you a nice vest and a pistol! You'll be fiiiiiiiine. Bring a Go-Pro.

1 guard and no plan!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, there's risks in being a cop. Yes, he could potentially accidentally shoot someone. But that's the cop's job. ANd he would have to make the call on taking a shot at the time.

But damn thing is for sure. In the 4 minutes he waited outside, people died that might not have. At the LEAST, the cop should have entered the building and assessed the situation. Maybe even apply a tourniquet and keep someone from bleeding out.

Scenario 1: Cop stays outside. Kids inside die, police show up, situation is handled by properly equipped authorities. Pretty much what happened.

Scenario 2: Cop goes in. Immediately gets shot, dies, body count goes up by one.

Scenario 3: Cop goes in. Raises gun in standoff with shooter. Two outcomes: Shooter dead, cop dead. Unknown number of collateral casualties, uncertain conclusion; shooter potentially alive, continues rampage, now has another gun and ammo.

Scenario 4: Cop goes in. Raises gun, patrols halls. Fleeing civilian startles cop, cop fires, innocent dead, unknown resolution of situation

Scenario 5: Cop goes in. Raises gun, patrols halls. Shooter has already left, cop can begin administering medical attention to those who need it. This is likely the ideal outcome.

Scenario 6: Cop goes in, immediately comes upon shooter unaware and displaying hostility towards civilians. Cop fires, eliminates target, becomes hero cop.

Scenario 7: Cop goes in, takes a shot and misses (or is spotted), shooter barricades in a classroom full of children. Now it's a hostage situation. Body count potentially doubles or more. This is the "Worst case" scenario in my mind, and the most likely.



There are -far- too many variables to account for, and these are only a handful of potential outcomes. Being blunt, this cop did the only sane and rational thing to do; In the face of unknown odds and with lives on the line, he didn't exacerbate the situation by escalating into an armed conflict or standoff scenario. Yes, kids died, but in this instance, the cop doing nothing possibly/probably prevented a large number of further deaths in a protracted standoff scenario. One way or another, barring the ludicrously unlikely "Hero cop" scenario, there were no good options here and far too many bad endings with either the cop dead or the cop causing further casualties.

Do you have training in this sort of thing? Meaning gun crises, I guess.

I'm just curious since I don't have any kind of background (in thinking, haha).

I'm not big on talking about it, but the endless keyboard-kommandanting here is getting under my skin. No one knows how they'll react until they're in the line of fire, and even then, even with training, even if the cop had backup, even if he had almost clear knowledge of the situation, and even if he was in peak physical condition, a proper threat assessment may turn up the best response as no response.

The amount of rabid, ignorant, zombie-like dogpiling onto this poor cop who has to live with his decision for the rest of his natural life sickens me. If those slobbering Rambo-wannabes think they can do a better job, they need to be on the force or on the frontlines, not tip-typing away from the safety of their computer.

In my eyes, you've said it all.

Judgement is easy sitting safe behind a keyboard, real life isn't so simple.

I won't say the officer did the correct thing but not having full knowledge of what he knew, saw or felt I will not condemn either.

He remained outside of the building and set up a one man perimeter! Not sure how that works, when I was in the Army, we were told that there was no such a thing as "one man" perimeter!!

There are "virtual" "one man" perimeters now.

I too, imply my own toughness by criticizing actions of which I lack all relevant knowledge. Hopefully, when you do it, you're as comfortable and as safe behind your keyboard as I am.

of excuses for not rushing in underarmed, in ignorance of the salient facts and with no backup. Which, stripped of the hyperbole, was the case.

First, the bigger schools, such as the one in FL, have several such officers on campus. Second, the officers are usually inside the building, because trouble, especially during transition times, usually happens there, and not outside. My guess, and it's just that, is he left the building, probably because he was terrified and alone. I think he should have done something, but can't put myself in his place facing such horror.

Especially when it's a school, but other public places like malls. One trained officer can, and often does make a difference. Most of these shooters kill themselves as soon as a person with a gun confronts them. At minimum you're going to make a difference. Draw fire, return fire and pin him down, maybe hit him or he shoots himself. There's no win win here, but he could have helped and should have went in.

Even the Sheriff said his inaction was nauseating.

Armed guards do no good. These weapons need to be banned.

recall hearing that one student who had just returned from jr ROTC had his kevlar blanket and used it to protect nearby fellow students.

Presumbably the resource officer was wearing a kevlar vest.

student and teachers say let it go... we don't know the entire story

SO have plenty of military members.

Shock can do things to a person.

I am betting this guy thought he could deal with this situation and then he couldn't. I am also betting he wouldn't want the job anymore anyway.

Having a gun in your hand does not make a person Superman.

I'm guessing criticizing the deputy is one of last-night's talking-points to better pivot the conversation away from gun violence and the NRA.


Seems to be the fortune-cookie/bumper-sticker of that particular narrative.

Police wait for backup when they're outgunned in a situation all the time. And innocents can - and have - been injured or killed while they wait.
They don't get called cowards for not just running in by themselves and getting shot by someone with a high velocity, high capacity weapon.

Kids were killed, and people want to think that one guy with a pistol should be able to confront and take down someone with a weapon that is far more capable of instant decapitation than his would be.

I may be disappointed that he didn't just run in towards the shooting, like some people would, but not everyone is a "hero cop" - most - including you or I - are just average people (even if we're trained to react), and I can understand his four minute wait while he tried to figure out what was going on and get himself ready to most likely die by multiple rounds from an AR-15 or other high velocity firearm. It would be obvious from the noise what sort of weapon the shooter was using.
Especially if he was aware of what that weapon would do to him despite wearing probably the cheapest "bullet proof" vest the district could get for him.

This wasn't TV, even though it played out on TV.

Haele

n/t

the problem is the killer having a gun like the one he had. The NRA would love to tar this guy as their potential good guy with a gun.

Their stupid, simplistic mantra that "the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" makes no damn sense if people with 39 calls to the police about them under their belt can buy an AK-15 and walk into a school (or mall, or grocery store, or movie theater) even if those places are guarded by people with handguns.

(And what does that say about our country, that armed guards at movie theater sounds reasonable rather than paranoid?)

And now the good guy needs an AR15 or equivalent. Every teacher needs one!

... and when he was needed,
he failed to act.

I'm surprised at those who defend his actions.
How many lives could have been saved if he had done his job?

He took the pay and benefits when he didn't have to do anything.

But when he was needed, he sad "Oh, Hell no !"

Or just on the internet?

In 1966, Charles Whitman killed his mother and wife, then went to the Clock Tower on the Univ of Texas campus and ascended with a deer rifle to the oberservation deck from which he had a commanding view of the campus. He killed 11 and wounded 31 people before he was stopped. Despite Whitman's 360 degree view of the campus to shoot and kill anyone he saw, two police officers managed to make their way to the Clock Tower, enter and ascend to the observation deck. When they opened the door to the observation deck, they did not know what awaited them on the other side. Yet, they went through and were able to kill Whitman and stop his assault on the campus.

This is what law enforcement officers are trained to do and what this officer did not do.

Like I said, lots of Monday morning quarterbacking going on here.

and kill anyone he wished. That's the point. These officers were sitting duck targets to Whitman yet they found a way into the Clock Tower building and to confront and ultimately to kill Whitman.

or even somewhere between those two, this demonstrates quite vividly what a stupid idea it is to hire more armed guards for schools. Get the fucking guns away, that would save lives.

that when the Coral Springs police arrived, there was the resource officer plus 3 other Broward Co deputies on site, all outside. Apparently these officers didn't follow the CSPD into the building either.

Just wondering what all these Rambos would have done under the same circumstances.

and the NRA want. A cop shouldn't have to face down crazy person with a rifle easily capable of firing
30 rounds in 5 seconds in the first place. Trump has already changed the subject to people not
acting on this earlier and arming teachers. I predict now nothing other than outlawing bump stocks
is going to be done and this shooter didn't us one.

but gun humpers love their murder machine the AR 15.

Your military experience and under what article of the UCMJ can a person be shot for dereliction of Duty?

A lot, I'll bet.

Nobody walks into a job at 18 or 21 or 26 or 40 knowing that they are going to be fantastic at it. Everyone trains and works hard and has good intentions and still fucks up and often ends up not being able to do, or not being very good at, aspects of their job.

That's why the lives of kids shouldn't depend on one guy with a gun. They should depend on a government that keeps guns out of the hands of maniacs in the first place.

are a peashooter is insufficient against and AR 15...this is not television. I see no reason for a cop to commit suicide to make Wayne Pierre and gun humpers happy.

after his response?