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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThomas Paine and Ben Franklin also said 'You Didn't Build That'
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2012/07/27/thomas-paine-and-ben-franklin-you-didnt-build-that?google_editors_picks=true
By Jason Koebler
July 27, 2012
When President Obama said at a rally earlier month that "if you've been successful, you didn't get there on your own if you've got a business, you didn't build that," he started a political firestorm, and an opposing "I built that" campaign from Mitt Romney. But it turns out Obama didn't build that argument from scratch, either. And his comments seem to be closer to the founding fathers' principles than opponents might like to believe. As noticed by Reddit, Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Paine, two men who literally built the country, expressed similar sentiments in the 1700s. And, reading the passages suggests that they wouldn't take all the credit for founding the country, either.
In a Christmas Day letter to Robert Morris in 1783, Franklin wrote that "the remissness of our people in paying taxes is highly blameable," and that "all property seems to me to be the creature of public convention."
He continues:
"All the Property that is necessary to a man, for the conservation of the individual and the propagation of the species, is his natural right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all property superfluous to such purposes is the property of the publick, who, by their laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other laws dispose of it, whenever the welfare of the publick shall demand such disposition. He that does not like civil society on these terms, let him retire and live among savages."
Paine, in 1795's Agrarian Justice, puts it even more bluntly: "Personal property is the effect of society; and it is as impossible for an individual to acquire personal property without the aid of society, as it is for him to make land originally...Separate an individual from society, and give him an island or a continent to possess, and he cannot acquire personal property. He cannot be rich," he writes.
Firebrand Gary
(5,044 posts)Who am I to speak, but I think OFA should figure out a creative way to use these remarks.
rfranklin
(13,200 posts)Their brains transmogrify whatevery they see.
Firebrand Gary
(5,044 posts)tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)Obama was saying that buisness didn't build the roads that facilitated the business's successes! Oy vey...
coldbeer
(306 posts)each attack ad needs a referee. Let's
eliminate editing.
Igel
(35,356 posts)Lots of (R) get up and thank others for their help.
Then challenge them and say that all they have is, really, due to society and they're nothing special, or say because without society they wouldn't have it so they really owe it (more or most or all) to society, is to get the response, "I built it on my own."
They can believe both. Just as some of us can think that it was through hard work that they and not somebody else built it and yet society helped them. No contradiction, just a matter of focus and emphasis.
You diminish them or claim ownership of what they built and, of course, you get a bad response. It's like saying Obama was just a front, built up by others and really just a hack. Suddenly instead of his success being due to mostly society, it's all sort of other things. It saves the losers in society from blame and makes the majority feel good, but it this kind of drivel-for-thought does beg the question: Why, exactly did society help Romney? Why didn't society help him and not some poor guy barely making ends meet?
Context matters.
DemocracyInaction
(2,506 posts)Ben had a short autobio which was basically just his early adult years in Phillly. He came up with a whole slew of civic ideas which required people to pay for services and the people thought they were fantastic ideas to improve their town and gladly paid the fees. He also had them put up a public building which was open for all denominations to have their preachermen preach. He outright said it was also open to Muslims...........chew on that right wing freaks....
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)should be taxed at 100%. You won't find that fact in "Glen Beck's Common Sense"
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)Whether it was a rolling log, or stone, someone had the brilliant inspiration to make a connection, and thus an invention. All of a sudden the world was on wheels.
The tcp/ip protocol, Calculus, some artwork were truly created. And I don't even really know if those were really created out of thin air. There were probably things that lead up to the sparks of creation. Most music is an evolution. The number of truly unique creations is very limited. So much so that it might as well be considered public.
I think the bottom line here is very important. Are we all working together to form an entity. A product, even. We've watched this country, and others, play a game of tug of war. That's no way to build a house. It takes twice the effort. And the end result is nothing in comparison to something where everyone is working together to create something of beauty and pride.
I'm dreaming again.
The Jungle 1
(4,552 posts)These are powerful facts why can't we get them included in the national dialogue.
I demand that the press raise the bar.
WoodyM90
(40 posts)who had a wonderful idea. It would make him millions. And he had the money to undertake his idea. But he could not get it to work as he lived alone on an island by himself.