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Bullying does not cause school shootings - entitlement does... (Original Post) Soph0571 Mar 2018 OP
BULLSHIT! Are_grits_groceries Mar 2018 #1
ACCURATE! ck4829 Mar 2018 #2
No, they're far more likely to kill THEMSELVES than others. Bullying is the root of both. 7962 Mar 2018 #23
One of the stupidest things I have ever seen oberliner Mar 2018 #3
Yes white boys get bullied too, but not as much as LGBT and women. lark Mar 2018 #4
Thank you lebkr Mar 2018 #6
Wrong. masmdu Mar 2018 #8
not talking about serial killers here lebkr Mar 2018 #9
There have been non-white mass shooters (Navy yard, Ft. Hood, VT). X_Digger Mar 2018 #14
LGBT & women are far more likely to kill themselves, not others. 7962 Mar 2018 #50
it's complicated lebkr Mar 2018 #5
How about we just have Motownman78 Mar 2018 #51
This message was self-deleted by its author Matt_R Mar 2018 #54
Umm no. The point you missed is that bullying doesnt cause girls, transgender, lgbt to commit boston bean Mar 2018 #7
But the bullying DOES cause many of them to kill themselves. Check THOSE stats 7962 Mar 2018 #24
Yes it does. It is not the cause of mass shootings. boston bean Mar 2018 #32
Except when the evidence shows the shooter was bullied. Which is many times. 7962 Mar 2018 #38
Try being the only person of color in an Appalachian school where everyone is for Trump IronLionZion Mar 2018 #11
Yes, but why do they make up virtually ALL the perps of school shootings? paleotn Mar 2018 #16
In fact, they could get more upset about it treestar Mar 2018 #34
Nobody is saying that white boys don't get bullied LeftishBrit Mar 2018 #46
I've been bullied a lot through school and never even considered it IronLionZion Mar 2018 #10
Agreed. And those who cherish the gun culture and worship their guns tend to be douchebags Doodley Mar 2018 #12
Three cheers for bullying???????? Soxfan58 Mar 2018 #13
The writter isn't dismissing it necessarily... paleotn Mar 2018 #17
On what planet does LGBT have some sort of tight peer group dsc Mar 2018 #27
I am only talking from my own experience. Soxfan58 Mar 2018 #41
Bullcrap.. LiberalArkie Mar 2018 #15
You're not getting it.... paleotn Mar 2018 #19
I agree. The type of guns used in mass shootings are part of white male culture. mjvpi Mar 2018 #31
On this day of unity, thank you *Eden Cheunng* for sowing division. SMC22307 Mar 2018 #18
The data simplly speaks for itself. paleotn Mar 2018 #21
Learn from the Parkland students -- unity, not division. SMC22307 Mar 2018 #29
I understand and agree with you. paleotn Mar 2018 #45
Of course! Because its easy. Soon, "white privilege' will be the cause of tornadoes. 7962 Mar 2018 #39
This is a hit-and-run OP. SMC22307 Mar 2018 #42
The data point to.... paleotn Mar 2018 #47
This is a politicized simplication of a complex issue. I have 20 years in as a teacher and it is not Persondem Mar 2018 #20
I think the OP is diminishing the role of bullying. And that sucks. aikoaiko Mar 2018 #22
EXACTLY! dlk Mar 2018 #25
I figured it was the guns. NightWatcher Mar 2018 #26
100% Freddie Mar 2018 #28
Entitlement and white privilege, I apologize to all I'm a White 60 year old man njhoneybadger Mar 2018 #30
So was I, born with white skin Farmer-Rick Mar 2018 #33
I agree, and maybe it is just easier for a white male to buy an AR-15 njhoneybadger Mar 2018 #35
Very well stated. 7962 Mar 2018 #40
Not your fault Motownman78 Mar 2018 #52
Other countries have 'bullies', other countries have those who have 'priveledge'... WePurrsevere Mar 2018 #36
See, all we have to do sarisataka Mar 2018 #37
Perhaps It's The Entitlement... ProfessorGAC Mar 2018 #43
Hmmmm, good point Farmer-Rick Mar 2018 #44
Thinking This ProfessorGAC Mar 2018 #48
Well put Farmer-Rick Mar 2018 #49
Don't agree; likely a combination of factors. radius777 Mar 2018 #53

Are_grits_groceries

(17,111 posts)
1. BULLSHIT!
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 07:35 AM
Mar 2018

Bullying does play a part in school shootings in some cases. To totally dismiss this as a cause is short-sighted.
There are a lot of factors at play. Entitlement may be one but that alone does not cause them.

ck4829

(35,077 posts)
2. ACCURATE!
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 08:10 AM
Mar 2018

if bullying caused school shootings, you would see trans shooters, queer shooters, female shooters, POC shooters.

Where are they? We have 50% females in schools but they don't make 50% of school shooters. GLBTQ students are bullied relentlessly, they aren't shooters. POC and adherents of minority religions are bullied (Sometimes by school administrators themselves), yet they aren't shooting schools up.

Why?

lark

(23,105 posts)
4. Yes white boys get bullied too, but not as much as LGBT and women.
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 08:32 AM
Mar 2018

There is no dispute, however, that 100% of serial killers have been white males. Why do you think that is? I think it's a lot of messages that you have the right to retaliate and some, especially gun loving white parents, push this on their white sons. They like guns so ignore it when their kids get gun obsessed or worse they report them and police refuse to do anything.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
14. There have been non-white mass shooters (Navy yard, Ft. Hood, VT).
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 09:35 AM
Mar 2018

You might want to actually do some research. Mass shooters' races tend to be commensurate with their races in the population.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2017/oct/06/newsweek/are-white-males-responsible-more-mass-shootings-an/

The Mother Jones database, which dates back to Aug. 20, 1982, counts 91 mass shootings. Of these, 50 were carried out by white men — hence, where Newsweek and other outlets got the statistic that 54 percent of mass shootings carried out since 1982 were done so by white men.

For comparison’s sake, Mother Jones' data show African-Americans accounted for 15 mass shootings, while Latinos and Asians were responsible for seven each. Three attacks were carried out by women, including one of the two perpetrators behind the 2015 San Bernardino shooting.
 

7962

(11,841 posts)
50. LGBT & women are far more likely to kill themselves, not others.
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 01:36 PM
Mar 2018

The bullying is still the root with both

lebkr

(39 posts)
5. it's complicated
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 08:32 AM
Mar 2018

No one is saying that. Just that it's not THE reason for shooters. This labeling allows us to turn away and not give this terrible act further consideration. (OK!! That's fixed!!) There will always be bullies/bullied, there will always be unstable people. Not everyone will turn to mass shooting for coping/making a statement in their lives. Like most things in life, there's no simple, uncomplicated answer/solution. Lets make a start by banning assault weapons and bump stocks and having universal background checks. How nice would that be?

 

Motownman78

(491 posts)
51. How about we just have
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 01:42 PM
Mar 2018

One entrance into a school with metal detectors. Have a Resource Officer(s) behind some bullet-proof glass. These simple things would stop school mass shootings inside of school. How about we do that instead of banning certain items.

Hell, now the Parkland kids are complaining about wearing clear backpacks. Banning items (Like solid color backpacks) never solves the problem.

Response to Motownman78 (Reply #51)

boston bean

(36,221 posts)
7. Umm no. The point you missed is that bullying doesnt cause girls, transgender, lgbt to commit
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 08:36 AM
Mar 2018

mass slaughter. There is basically one demographic that does this. Why?? Many people are bullied. Not just young white men.

Please try to comprehend the meaning.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
38. Except when the evidence shows the shooter was bullied. Which is many times.
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 12:08 PM
Mar 2018

Parkland? That guy was just off his rocker.

How many times does the evidence show a history of bullying? A lot of times. Journals, statements by the shooter, statements by classmates of the shooter.

IronLionZion

(45,454 posts)
11. Try being the only person of color in an Appalachian school where everyone is for Trump
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 09:06 AM
Mar 2018

Never even considered it.

paleotn

(17,931 posts)
16. Yes, but why do they make up virtually ALL the perps of school shootings?
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 09:49 AM
Mar 2018

and other bullying target groups are at about zero? Thus, there must be something else going on here.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
34. In fact, they could get more upset about it
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 11:07 AM
Mar 2018

If you are a minority, you at least can attribute it to that. If a white male, you end up attributing it to your self. Much more likely to make you react badly.

LeftishBrit

(41,208 posts)
46. Nobody is saying that white boys don't get bullied
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 01:17 PM
Mar 2018

Just that so are members of other groups, some of them more so; and they don't typically commit school shootings. Bullying has lots of bad consequences, for the victims and also for those who are allowed to bully; but school shootings are not an inevitable consequence.

Of course, neither bullying nor entitlement nor mental illness would be likely to cause school shootings if it weren't so easy for young people in the USA to get hold of guns.

IronLionZion

(45,454 posts)
10. I've been bullied a lot through school and never even considered it
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 09:03 AM
Mar 2018

White boys consider it. NRA and gun companies market towards reclaiming your manhood and feel empowered and liberated from your imaginary oppressors. Forget yoga and soy products. You can feel the testosterone rising just by looking at these ads. Makes you hungry for a nice big steak, well done with ketchup.



Doodley

(9,094 posts)
12. Agreed. And those who cherish the gun culture and worship their guns tend to be douchebags
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 09:29 AM
Mar 2018

who are more likely to be hotheads.

Soxfan58

(3,479 posts)
13. Three cheers for bullying????????
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 09:34 AM
Mar 2018

You have to have a bullied child to understand the impact. All these groups have pretty tight peer groups Sometimes the bullies child has none. No excuse to shoot up a school, but a problem that really has to be addressed not dismissed like this post does.

paleotn

(17,931 posts)
17. The writter isn't dismissing it necessarily...
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 09:55 AM
Mar 2018

there's more to it than bullying. White male children subjected to bullying also have peer groups in most cases. At Columbine, it seems the peer group together perped the massacre.

dsc

(52,162 posts)
27. On what planet does LGBT have some sort of tight peer group
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 10:13 AM
Mar 2018

Yes, it has gotten better, especially in those schools that have GSAs but a significant number of gay kids who are out are the only out kid or one of damn few out kids in their schools. And yes, that is hard. I am the only out teacher at my school and some days are rough for me as an adult who has a tight peer group in my personal life. I can only remember what it was like when I didn't have that back in the day.

Soxfan58

(3,479 posts)
41. I am only talking from my own experience.
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 12:18 PM
Mar 2018

And you have a better understanding of whats going on. I have one daughter who was mercilessly bullied in high school, another who was a out lesbian. My lesbian daughter had a very strong core of friends, my bullied daughter not so much. The good news is they have both grown to be remarkable women.

LiberalArkie

(15,719 posts)
15. Bullcrap..
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 09:40 AM
Mar 2018

How many shooters have been football jocks, or heavy or popular at school. The kids that carry out the acts are small kids. Usually quiet kids. The kids that the bigger kids pick on.

paleotn

(17,931 posts)
19. You're not getting it....
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 10:05 AM
Mar 2018

Quiet, studious, picked on people of color don't appear to perp mass shootings. Nor do gay kids. Or females in general, whether bullied or not. By a huge margin, it is a white, male phenomenon. Bullying may play a role, possibly a major role, but there's far, far more to it than that. A major portion could possibly be the culturally driven expectations of white males in this society and the associated feelings of entitlement. My personal opinion is, until we drag white male culture, kicking and screaming if necessary, into the 21st century of inclusiveness, this feeling of entitlement and the negative behaviors associated with it, will continue.

mjvpi

(1,388 posts)
31. I agree. The type of guns used in mass shootings are part of white male culture.
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 10:40 AM
Mar 2018

From what I have read, only 22% of Americans own guns. Assault rifles are owned by a subset of that. However, of the 72 kids killed by guns since Parkland (undoubtedly more as of today) many were killed by hand guns. Just guessing from names and the few pictures that I saw, the racial and ethnic lines seemed to blur more. One can only imagine what some of these accounts would have looked like if there had been a different type of weapon available. Or looking on the bright side, what might have happened without hand guns easily available. There is an economic factor that runs parallel to us white guys.

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
18. On this day of unity, thank you *Eden Cheunng* for sowing division.
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 10:00 AM
Mar 2018

Unfuckingbelievable.

Total right-wing tactic -- pit groups against one other, and some DUers are reccing it. LOL

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
29. Learn from the Parkland students -- unity, not division.
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 10:27 AM
Mar 2018

If not, you'll weaken the cause, and I'm *sure* that's not what you want, right?

paleotn

(17,931 posts)
45. I understand and agree with you.
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 01:12 PM
Mar 2018

However, if the problem resides in a particular demographic, one to which I belong, we need to face that, figure out what's going wrong and address it. It's not degrading white males. It's saying we, as white males, have a problem and we've got to find a way to fix it.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
39. Of course! Because its easy. Soon, "white privilege' will be the cause of tornadoes.
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 12:12 PM
Mar 2018

Why not? Convenient scapegoat. Avoids confronting reality.
And as you point out, the RW uses this tactic SO many times.

My stalker should be along shortly......

paleotn

(17,931 posts)
47. The data point to....
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 01:20 PM
Mar 2018

white males perpetrate mass shootings in overwhelming numbers. And not only in this country. It's undeniable, incontrovertible fact. We have a problem and it's got to be addressed. That, my friend, is reality. My point is not to divide, but focus on the problem.

Persondem

(1,936 posts)
20. This is a politicized simplication of a complex issue. I have 20 years in as a teacher and it is not
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 10:05 AM
Mar 2018

this simple.

Besides ... tweets ain't research.

NightWatcher

(39,343 posts)
26. I figured it was the guns.
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 10:13 AM
Mar 2018

They transfer anger, entitlement, or what have you into hot instant mass death.

Freddie

(9,267 posts)
28. 100%
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 10:17 AM
Mar 2018

Saw a bumper sticker years ago (they'd probably get run off the road now):
Guns Don't Kill People - But They Sure Help

njhoneybadger

(3,910 posts)
30. Entitlement and white privilege, I apologize to all I'm a White 60 year old man
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 10:31 AM
Mar 2018

Please forgive me I was born with white skin.

Farmer-Rick

(10,185 posts)
33. So was I, born with white skin
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 11:06 AM
Mar 2018

But I remember bringing a knife to school to deal with some bullies. Luckily it never made it out of the locker.

Bullying can make some people want to reach for a weapon. It makes others want to commit suicide. I think there are many different reactions to bullying. And unless you experience it, you don't know how you will react.

And yes, some people are so much smarter than the average bear and would never consider picking up a semi automatic in revenge. And some aren't as stable and grab one of those easily available killing tools. Maybe it's more about availability then anything else.

 

Motownman78

(491 posts)
52. Not your fault
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 01:44 PM
Mar 2018

But Parkland is in a wealthy neighborhood. I know a friend who lives there, he says the Privilege is palatable.

WePurrsevere

(24,259 posts)
36. Other countries have 'bullies', other countries have those who have 'priveledge'...
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 11:49 AM
Mar 2018

Other countries have similar types of angry, hurting, mentally unstable, etc people but they don't have nearly as many mass shootings as we do.

IMO the answer is multifaceted and until we look at, accept and take action on ALL of those contributing factors we won't even come close to solving the mass murdering of children and others.

sarisataka

(18,663 posts)
37. See, all we have to do
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 11:57 AM
Mar 2018

Is get white males to start by committing suicide as a response to bullying like other groups do and mass shootings will stop. Problem solved.




So much

ProfessorGAC

(65,076 posts)
48. Thinking This
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 01:26 PM
Mar 2018

In general:
The poor kids don't pick the rich kids
The nerds don't pick on the jocks
The shy girls don't pick on the cool girls
The chess team doesn't pick on the football players
The LGBT kids don't pick on the straight kids.
What the latter half all have in common, is they're the dominant culture and they feel a "right" to lord it over others
Would have written this in the first post but was my phone. Too much typing on that little screen.

radius777

(3,635 posts)
53. Don't agree; likely a combination of factors.
Sat Mar 24, 2018, 02:14 PM
Mar 2018

Men overall have more testosterone and are thus more violent than women, and we live in a society where both men and women value the alpha male type. So disempowered young men (of all races) tend to act out in violence as a means to achieve 'respect' - this goes for school shooters, as well as gang violence etc that MoC tend more to fall into. And there have been high profile MoC school shooters (Cho, Eliot Rodger, etc).

Democrats never win by attacking young people, a crucial element of the party.

Alot of these kids have serious issues, combined with usually being raised in conservative households - it's up to Dems to stand up for the issues affecting these kids - instead of simply resorting to knee jerk narratives.

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