I spend maybe a week of it doing school work without it being covered by contract hours. Maybe a bit less.

I may teach summer school, but get paid. I may go to prof. development trainings, curriculum writing, planning meetings, but get comp time for some of it. (Not all.) Much of the time I don't get comp time for officially still pays off on giving me time during the school year. Otherwise I read and bone up on new content or techniques, but that's because I want to. I know people who put in more time over the summer; I know people who put in less time. What's optional isn't required.

There are better arguments to advance, but they require that the other side listen. For example, for my education I get significantly less pay. "Less pay for less time" is the argument to make here.

You can structure your pay to be monthly for 12 or 10 months. Unless thats changed recently.

During the summers, my teachers got whatever work they could find, retail clerks, cooks, servers. If they were lucky, their family had businesses and they could get a spot in the family business.

I favor a year around teacher with year around pay. During the school year, they teach. During the summers, they take training and gather with other teachers and administrators to develop best practices and methods that can be applied during the coming school year. Their summer ends with a two week actual vacation, before they return to their schools to start prepping for the school year.

Depends on your grade level/subject, but my HS math teacher husband works all summer on the coming year, unless he gets a 2nd summer job.

special events to organize, etc.

teachers pay for those summer classes out of their own pocket. In many states there is something called continuing education that is mandated by the state. Teacher are required to complete the credits needed to renew their licenses, it is not a choice thing. Add to that the supplies many teachers buy just to be able to do their jobs to give their students the best education they can. Yep, bet Mr. Parker would be more than willing to comply with all of the things listed, and take a meager salary as his reward.

Teachers incur just to provide their students with needed supplies. You used to be a able to receive a tax deduction for this...but not anymore. Those slimy little asshole Republicans made sure they got rid of that in the new tax bill

And these days, who DOESNT do work after hours at home?
I live in GA. Not the most progressive state. But in my county, every teacher I know is paid over 40K a yr. May not sound like much depending on where others live, but here you can buy an 1800 sq ft house for 120k. And the GA teacher retirement program is a LOT better than most private companies.
Certainly other states are shitty in their teacher pay, but here their biggest complaint is the BOE not backing them up in disciplining unruly students

I’m talking about the ones who’ve been teaching for a while, not the new hires.

My good friend moved south from NJ because he said it was the only way he'd ever be able to afford a home!

have some valid points. We need to recognize some of the resentment that's building up over public employee pay
and compensation - it's better than what's happening in the private sector in many cases. Teacher compensation
varys widely across the country, however. And it's not a job that just anyone can do.

You tell em, Teach!

My husband is a retired teacher and for years, he has also heard all the lame whining by people who think teachers have a "cake" job.

It's almost as if people hate teachers. Why do people hate teachers so?

Or had some mean teachers.

Or got called out for their shitty attitudes as kids.

So they resent and hate teachers forevermore.

the underbelly of teaching. We all know what teachers do. Interestingly, Americans like to trash education, but when it comes to their own child's school, it's fine.

The fact that schools have in many ways remained unchanged for decades is a result of states not funding it. We don't invest in our young people, or higher education. Sports stadiums? That's different.

have been bad-mouthing teachers forever. I believe it's because most are Union.
Anything that organizes the masses is bad for the Cons.

Also, they are trying to find a way to privatize the schools.

Everyone who complains about teachers’ hours should be forced to spend at least a week in an underfunded school. They might learn something. Parker reminds me of people I used to know who complained about paying school taxes because they had no children or their children were out of school. The notion of the common good was unimportant if they personally were not benefitting.

Complains about paying property taxes non stop. She said she can't stand hearing that phrase "for the common good." I gently reminded her that when we were kids, someone paid property taxes so our school was decent.

She will see what organized taxation does and why it is a good thing.

always had this superior attitude toward teachers, and even college professors. My profession was good for some extra luxuries, and could easily be given up to be a stay at home mom. Long story, but in semi-retirement, he was living in a district really hurting for subs, and he magnamiously figured "why not give it a try." He did manage to finish one complete day, to give him credit. That was it.

In WI, you can sub if you have a college degree. In fact, I enjoy reminding my right wing friends and relatives, who are now retiring, that they now have time to earn a little extra “easy” money. 😂 For some reason, none have decided to pursue this windfall. 🤔

There are those who consider us "babysitters", as exhibited in the teachers being little more than "proctors" in the classroom comment in Barry Parker's letter. The last time I taught in a regular classroom (I teach SPED now...classes are small) I had about 180 students over 6 periods, so an average class size of 30. Even at $5.00/hour per student (and for 5 bucks, you'd be lucky to get a 15 year old), that's $900/day. (At least I hope Mr. Parker doesn't expect to me "babysit" 30 students for an hour for $5.00) Over that 180 day school year, that's $162,000/year. So please. Pay me like a babysitter. I won't even charge you for all those holidays that piss you off so much, or summer months. And I'll not only babysit your kids, I'll teach them stuff. How much would that private tutor cost you, Mr. Parker?

And on top of everything else, now I'm expected to carry a gun so I can be a target for a lunatic. Thanks, Trump.

In the summer, she was the librarian in our small town public library. I was an adult before I understood it was for income.

I also remember spending hours in the high school library in the late summer helping her process new books. This was the late 1960s.

They did not come with the pocket and card in the back, they did not come with the Dewey Decimal numbers on the spine in white.

Mother and her also unpaid help did that to get them ready before school started.

Last edited Mon Apr 9, 2018, 02:58 PM - Edit history (2)

community college. Piece of cake, right? WRONG!!! The class was 1 hour long. Once a week. That single hour took multiple hours of preparation, correcting papers, collecting and assembling newspaper and magazine articles, arranging for guest speakers from the local radio stations, and more.

For ONE class. I was stunned by the workload - for ONE class. All I could think of was - "SHIT! I CANNOT imagine having to do this full-time!" And my class was small and the students all wanted to be there - and they were all cooperative, with no hecklers or smart-asses complicating the day.

My hat is off to teachers. Especially those who have to deal with troubled or unruly kids. Dear God, they deserve combat pay! And a whole lot more respect and support than they get, now or ever.

I think there were maybe 13-14 kids in the class. It's been awhile. I'd forgotten that it was a once-a-week class and went back and edited my post above to include that. I only lasted one semester, even though invited back. And it was a LOOOOOONNNNNNNNG drive, about an hour-and-a-half each way, down the freeway - and that was on random days when traffic was favorable. It really was exhausting.

And there were other aspects that made me appreciate teachers, too. As I was going through the official procedures to get credentialed, EVERY STEP OF THE WAY required paying a fee. After awhile, I grew tired of hearing the constant response "and there'll be a fee..." or "then you'll need to pay another fee..." and I found myself wondering how-the-hell many of these fees am I going to have to cough up before I actually reach the finish line and can actually start actually planning an actual class schedule? And I got paid. But not much. Didn't cover all those fees I paid out, or the papers and copies of stories and other supplies that I brought into class - that I paid for, myself, to augment the class.

But the good part was - two of my students were interested enough in the subject that they went on from there and found jobs in local media. One of 'em stayed in it for a couple of decades!

"teacher have it easy" has never done it.

Barry Parker you are full of BullShit

I can tell you that at times, I easily put in an extra 20 to 25 hours a week. If the extra-curricular activities that I manage are in high gear, those extra hours increase. Every break has a portion allotted to grading and planning. Summers are great, but almost every one has some portion of it that has to be set aside for professional development. Anyone who says or thinks this is a gravy job clearly has their head plugged up where the sun doesn't shine.

Updating skills and new methods. I know many teachers are taking classes on top of their work days.
I wish this country appreciated teachers

They mentor the young minds that go on to do other things in society. If teachers don't have the support to do their jobs properly, society crumbles.

I appreciate your screen name. I'd feel that way too if I lived in a red state!

I can fully believe your point about all that extra work. Some of these idiots must think that you just show up for the start of class, teach the class, and then go home, right? I'd like to see any of them try it. Either their way OR the right way! And I'd compare their results from their way to yours and find theirs extraordinarily and embarrassingly deficient.

Before Kelly knew Amy It really burned me to hear people trash teachers and claim they had it easy. Anyone with a brain knows better.
But, my daughter knows how much Amy puts into her job. Pays for things out of pocket and works really hard to get kindergarten minds excited and focused.
She knows even more this year as my granddaughter happened to end up in her class this year.
I was surprised to find out that in her class she has an autistic child. He is high functioning but, she does have to teach this special child as well. I know because my granddaughter was paired with him because she was compassionate and patient and helped him.
Teachers are a dedicated group. They put alot into their careers are so battered and unappreciated. So abused. And underpaid.
They do not get the respect others who are professionals get and we are the only country who treats our teachers this way.
How sad

There are places I have seen this: Taxpayer-funded "Christian" and charter schools.

Who came in saying "you guys are paid too much". He helped me with the elementary students for one month, then declared he did not want to work directly with students anymore, it was too hard. He also never told us we were being paid too much again. I'm
Anyone who complains about teachers should be required to work in a school for a month.

work from teachers in 180 days because of the quality of professional output.

The know-nothing confidence with which people speak of teaching, as if their having been in school makes them experts, makes me want to slap them silly.

If this manchild wants to criticize waste, he ought to visit any private prep school, where the rich believe that no amount of money is wasted on their kids when it comes to a professional teaching staff, capital spending, healthy food, state of the art technology, and field trips that involve air fare.

I'm fed up with people who don't realize that teachers are the heart of the human development industry.

if it's the same guy. We all know the agenda of the CC crowd, and it isn't supporting workers.

I'm sure ol' Barry cheered.

For that huge protest, on a Saturday. Guess who was grading papers for the 2 hour drive there. Week-ends off, yeah right.

Thanks to our 30yo son, who gave us most of the trip. We went to Costa Rica over our Spring Break.

He brought his school laptop and I pad with him to work in the early mornings.

Probably just bellowed "FAKE NEWS" and then, hi-ho, back to Breitbart!

but back when Mrs. Stonepounder was a teacher she didn't pay into Social Security. Her only retirement would have been her pension. It turned out to be just to difficult to be both a teacher and be married to a career military person, so she ended up leaving teaching.

States are like other companies that used to pay pensions. They spend the money in the pension fund as it comes in and then are surprised when the pensions come due and there is no money in the pension fund and, oh well, we'll have to cut the teacher's pensions. (You know, like the Repugs are trying to do with SS.)

is often times deceiving, because the schools average in the salaries of the principals, vice principals, and counselors. "Average teacher salary" is almost always much lower.

A better way would be to report the salary of a teacher in the first 5 years, because many of them don't last beyond 5 years.

And now the school board expects every teacher to have a master's degree, after a set number of years, paid for on their own dime!

Watch 'The Blackboard Jungle' for starters. Piece of cake.

These days they are targets of many disgruntled or deranged shooters and many die protecting YOUR children. Piece of cake!

Barry's disdain for teachers makes me hope he has no children of his own. What does he think of the kids if he doesn't care who raises them. Making it harder is having to unteach all the Fox propaganda they feed their children. Piece of cake!

It's a lack of respect!

She even omitted the days of "their own time" to undergo upgrade training, especially in sciences and technology, brush up on the language they may teach, or any one of a dozen other subjects.

But NONE of this compares to the outright hostility and (conferred) entitlement of the parents and their little darlings who cannot and will not accept that they or their progeny are not perfectly-behaved little geniuses.

Imagine teaching a class of Drumpfs.

Or the Bill Syndrome, Larry syndrome...etc., etc. No one, and I mean no one works as hard or has it as hard as they. Everyone else in the entire fucking galaxy is a slacker except them. I hate that typical wing nut stick.

I've never been a teacher, but married into a family of teachers. It has been very eye opening. But even before that, I respected teachers for having the patience, passion and determination to put up with me and my cohorts, much less attempt to educate us. I cannot imagine spending my entire day with 30+ kids like I was. THAT is a fucking tough job, worthy of combat pay. Lastly, it's Barry's fucking kids education. That should be a pretty damn important thing for Barry, so shouldn't he demand that it be performed by well paid professionals who know what the fuck they're doing? For Barry's fucking kids at least, I think so. Barry can just go F himself.

experts at two things:

1. School (because they went to one)

2. Medicine (because they once had something or knew someone else who did).

THAT makes them experts!

Barry Parker, like so many right wing troll toads, is an ignorant asshole. Being an asshole seems to be the primary distinguishing characteristic of today's right wing. These are not conservatives but bomb throwing radicals smugly confident in their right to be...assholes. Trump is the culmination of what is not an ideology, but a belief that they have a fundamental right to be abusive assholes.

But I digress...

I have had many jobs. I was a senior systems engineer to some of the top vendors in the computing/networking/storage/software space. I was well compensated in those years. I then moved over into sales and hit it just perfect in the late 90's and made ridiculous money during the Internet boom. I was at a very senior level in the companies I worked for back then and had enormous sales quotas that I never failed to succeed. The pressure was intense and the hours were sometimes endless. I often worked 80-100 hours per week when developing my global accounts. I was once threatened with hospitalization when I developed pneumonia and failed to noticeably improve for over a month because I simply refused to stay home and rest.

I was in the big leagues and every year the challenges kept getting bigger--not to mention the political battles that ultimately drove me out of three companies.

Sounds horrible right? I never had summers off. I never worked an eight hour day. I should be sneering at teachers too you might think.

Fast forward to 2008. The tech industry pancaked in 2004 due to 9/11 in 2001. The Internet bubble had popped back in 2000. I'd gotten edged out and laid off so many times that in 2004 I went into business myself. The business failed. Actually, you might say I failed.

By 2007, I was essentially unemployable because I'd managed with one bad decision after another to destroy what had been a gold plated resume. I was on 3 antidepressant and was taking a powerful benzodiazepene to allow me to sleep.

The insurance company I'd gone to work for selling Medicare Advantage policies was shutdown by CMS (Center for Medicare/Medicaid Services) and I ended up going to work for another firm who would send you out on 5-6 calls per day. Gas was almost $5 and one morning I suddenly woke up at 3 am and realized that I was spending more money than I was making.

Unemployed again. We'd already been forced into bankruptcy. My wife was working for a small charter school (later shut down by TEA) and I needed a job. I'm fluent in Spanish and Spanish was one of my major for my BA. My wife asked me if I thought I could teach Spanish. In spite of my emotional and mental state--I still had the blithe confidence that I could do anything. Besides, how hard could it be?

Well, it could be very, very hard indeed.

Teaching was the hardest job I ever took on. The hours for a new teacher average 70-80. The sense of pressure that I personally felt was so intense that on at least 4 occasions I couldn't make myself go to work. I once drove all the way to the school and almost passed out on the way there and then the panic attack I was having got worse while I was in the parking lot. I did pass out while sitting in my car hyperventilating. I went in and told the administrator I just couldn't that day.

I never, ever felt that kind of pressure while selling. Oh, and I was making the least amount of money I'd made to working a full time job since being an assistant manager with Kinney Shoes in the late 70's.

Teaching is hard and teachers should be honored and paid much, much more. That we don't pay our teachers well is an index into our nation, our culture, and our society. That fuck sticks like Barry Parker feel free to denigrate teachers shows that, as a society, we almost certainly lost as a people.

The assholes are in power right now. Their ignorance, simple stupidity, and thoughtless arrogance while in power probably cannot be recovered from. But while we circle the drain we need to fight back against the assholes like Barry Parker.

Treat the assholes with contempt. They certainly will feel free to treat you with contempt.

(Sorry for the wordiness. As, you might have figured out I taught that one year and went back to sales. I couldn't take the heat so I left the kitchen)

description about what you learned and wish you the best.

You are very kind.

This is the worst kind of writing. My focus on what I went through completely obscured my point.

Teaching is a very, very hard way to make a living. Those that do it usually have close to a vocation. That Barry Parker took it upon himself to assert that teachers don't merit more money because they are basically working part time and have a really cushy job is just another expression of assholeism.

That our states and our nation don't value education more is something very telling about our society.

That I taught and found it to be the most stressful job I ever had is really besides the point.

Thank for not blasting me. I pretty much deserved it.

Your experience provided great evidence about what teachers go through. I have a cousin who is a teacher and I could not do what she does.

But I also hope you can accept some support from DUers (i'm sure I am not the only one) for your experiences too. It's one of the best things about DU.

one thing. As a retired teacher, I would venture to say that without sporadic breaks from the classroom and classroom issues, the average length of a teacher's tenure would be about 3 years for the most dedicated and resilient ones.

Yes, that's true, because brain-dead a**holes like you vote Republican and the greedy a**holes you voted for dismantled them.

...extracurricular activities such as coaching and other student programs after hours that many teachers are also involved with. I coached the chess team for several years. In which, I spent my entire weekends and evenings after the normal hours in the classroom. I worked out the hourly pay using the stipend for said coaching chess and it worked out to a whopping $0.77 per hour. That's right 77 cents per hour to coach chess. So, this ass hat does not know what the hell he is talking about.

I started teaching with my first masters degree in hand at $10,200 per year while my roommate at the same time with a MBA in hand took an offer of $35,000 to work for IBM. Now that was way back in 1978. Low pay and low morale has been a staple in the educational community (teachers mostly) for decades.

Anyone who thinks teaching at any level is easy or over paid should try it. We work many hours outside the contact hours, pay for materials and we are rarely backed up by administration when problems with crazy and very badly behaved students and or parents arise, and they arise a lot more frequently lately imo.

I'm sorry Ms. Scioli had to take time away from her work to debunk it.

... because it's traditionally been performed by women?



============

Thank a teacher.

Thank you Mrs. Robertson, Mr. McKay, Mr. VanderZande, Mr. and Mrs. Kott and Miss Muir. Whenever teachers are the subject, I think of all of you and all the teachers who gave me a great public education.

Thank you Lou, for allowing me a great college education at a public university.

From one of those above named teachers kids....

If teachers were paid as much as lawyers, and lawyers as much as teachers, the world would be a much better place.

That letter could have been written by my brother-in-law - who watched me work more hours than Ms Sckioli did (I put in 80-100 hours, 7 days a week, during my worst year). His response: You're one of the good ones. Most of them aren't.

Even though I should have been the "rule" rather than the exception - because I'm the only teacher he knows well enough to see the actual time we put in. But in his little addled brain, all the other teachers are in it for the 5-hour days and summers off.

they helped me understand things that were mathematically impossible without them. They turned Greek into English. They taught me what those funny dots, dashes, slant things and punctuation were really made for.

They made my life an open book and a learning experience.

Thank YOU teachers.

Barry's a dick and clueless. I simply do not have the energy to respond to him....

I will to Angie, however....thank you! I commend you and the vocation you chose. I know, and have seen up close, how rewarding and yet unappreciated your profession is. You go, girlfriend!

I ask the person how much they would expect to get paid after earning a bachelor's degree!? And then, what about those states that require teachers to get master's degrees in education? How much should you get paid to continue your education and get certified to teach? and what about paying for those certification tests?

I wanted to be a teacher until I found out (in the late 70s) what they were paid and how much schooling costs and didn't see anyway I could afford to do it.

Every job has its good points and bad points, and teaching is no different than any of the other ones and I say that as a former public school teacher.

For teachers, there are some real downsides.

The biggest is having to manage kids who are not their own who may have significant problems. I remember calling one mom.

Me - "Mrs. Jones. I need your help because I'm having trouble with Jimmy."

Mrs Jones - "Oh I know, isn't he awful?"

With more than half the kids in many classes growing up in single parent or blended family households there are significant problems with behavior, crime, drugs, etc. Teachers end up being the ones who have to address them.

On the other hand, like every other job there are significant attractions to teaching.

They work fewer hours and get more days off than most jobs. For many people that's why they are teachers, so they can get their kids after school at 4 pm. They also get many more days off than most jobs. Yeah they bring work home after school but so do many other jobs. I worked all day yesterday (Saturday) just because I had a lot to do.

This teacher gets up at 3 am. That's not because she's a teacher. When I taught I never woke up at 3 am. I worked every summer when I taught too. I trained our city's lifeguards. I couldn't sit home for two months. Sure there was a few days of inservice before school started and a day or two to get your grades in and room cleaned before summer starts, but otherwise the summer was my own.

Teachers have very good retirement plans. Many teachers are not even part of social security. That is a huge privilege that doctors, lawyers, stock brokers would love to have. Why teachers get this right and others don't, I have never been able to figure out. Most districts require teachers to put in between 6-7 % of their pay into the state Teacher Retirement Pension system. That may not be right for every state but it holds true for the ones I know. If she's putting 7 % of her pay into a pension and she's putting in $ 439 per month that would put her income at somewhere around $ 80,000 a year.

I was a teacher for about 10 years so I know how hard teaching is, but so are a lot of other jobs. Each has their advantages and disadvantages. You rarely see a story about how hard mudloggers have it, or nurses or anyone else. It seems these teachers have it rough stories outnumber every other job you ever see.

Either they taught summer school, worked on another degree, or worked at some place like Walmart to make ends meet. Of course, this was in Oklahoma.

Give all the teachers guns. and that will bring down the workload.
thanks NRA

...that I contributed 6% of my salary to for 30 years. The school district also kicked in 6% (negotiated through our teacher's union that I paid $600 a year to be represented by...including being a union rep and officer for about half of those 30 years).

I worked on my Master's Degree in Education, and eventually studied to earn an elementary counselor's basic and standard certification, and a basic administrative certificate, as well as numerous other classes and workshops that didn't apply to a degree or certification.

I never did the 3 am or 5 am thing, because I'm a night owl...always have been..always will be. But I was at work EVERY DAY by 7 am and stayed until AT LEAST 5 pm, and very often to 6 or 7. Even went in on weekends for several years when I was permitted. If I was ever going to be sick and have to have a sub, I returned to my classroom at 4 pm and prepared lessons, materials, notes and followed any problems or concerns from the sub for the following day, and was often there until 9 pm or later. If I was really down and going to be out sick or at training for more than one day I had even more of a load to prepare. I HATED being away from my classroom because my kids relied on me, and it always ended up being as much work getting the sub ready for the next day as it would be for me to take the cold tablets and work through my illness.

Kids are home...we were not. Preparing peogress reports, preparing for parent teacher conferences, and then actually having those conferences with students' work and suggestions for the parents and students to follow up on. Unbelievable time spent preparing for those reports.

If you have never tried stepping in to a teacher's shoes, I suggest you volunteer a few days. The preparation, execution and follow up are draining. I have the highest respect for our public school teachers....unlike so many ignorant tax payers who think they are glorified baby sitters. Korea, Japan, Europe and so many other countries respect education and hold teachers in high respect. They pay their teachers a professional salary. It's depressing to be paid as though we work 9 to 5, five days a week and take the summers off to lounge in the sun with our feet up. I won't even go into how many of us provide for those kids that don't have the finances from home.

My son taught high school math for 7 years , and finally had to throw in the towell. He couldn't support his wife and pay the crazy mortgage. He's now in technology and makes good money. This is what happens to lots of good teachers. We pay them peanuts and expect them to be "middle America" and teach our kids to be ready for that world that waits for them.

An ungrateful moron...this Mr. Barry Parker. A damned fool...and I'm sure "a conservative". I detest these ignorant fools.

Even if you think their schedule is easy - why wouldn't you want to make the occupation as attractive as possible to the best possible candidates? These people are literally with your children all day.

I don't know if he had her, but he would have been well served if he had.