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mucifer

(23,542 posts)
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 06:50 AM Apr 2018

Duckworth proposes rule allowing babies on Senate floor

(CNN)Sen. Tammy Duckworth, who just gave birth to her second child, is attempting the rare move of changing longstanding Senate rules in order to accommodate senators with newborns.

The Illinois Democrat has submitted a resolution this week that would allow senators to bring a child under one year old to the Senate floor during votes, which they currently cannot do.

"After many positive, constructive conversations with her colleagues on both sides of the aisle, Sen. Duckworth is glad to be able to offer this legislation to ensure no senator with an infant is prevented from performing their constitutional responsibilities -- and send a message that working parents everywhere deserve family-friendly workplace policies," said Kaitlin Fahey, Duckworth's chief of staff, in a statement provided to CNN on Monday. "She is optimistic that this will be resolved quickly."


"My leadership of the Democratic Party have been very supportive," she said. "We're going to request a rules change, so that during the first year of this child's life, whether you are a woman or a man, whether you're breast-feeding or not, or you've adopted or something, you should be able to bring that child on to the floor and continue to do your job."

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/08/politics/tammy-duckworth-senate-baby-pregnant/index.html

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Duckworth proposes rule allowing babies on Senate floor (Original Post) mucifer Apr 2018 OP
I think a lot of accomodations need to occur for nursing mothers in the workplace but I just don't hlthe2b Apr 2018 #1
I don't really see a problem thewhollytoast Apr 2018 #2
that's the point... They hardly get anything done right now. Seriously, though... NO hlthe2b Apr 2018 #3
I just keep thinking during the run up to Iraq how Robert Byrd might have appreciated the company thewhollytoast Apr 2018 #25
I'd like to hope that as well, Volaris Apr 2018 #171
There have been worse than crying infants on the Senate floor ehrnst Apr 2018 #4
No... There are places children do not belong and that includes the "ADULT children" that the RW hlthe2b Apr 2018 #6
If a baby nursing can bring our democratic process to a halt ehrnst Apr 2018 #8
and you know this how? Sorry, (NOT SORRY) this is ridiculous. hlthe2b Apr 2018 #9
I've been in board meetings with a nursing mother, and it was a small conference room. ehrnst Apr 2018 #10
and how do you think that meeting would have progressed if the infant had cried all the way through. hlthe2b Apr 2018 #12
Why do you think that an infant would be left on the Senate floor crying? ehrnst Apr 2018 #14
A baby can't nurse and cry at the same time. It's physically impossible. pnwmom Apr 2018 #16
Clearly not many women are in this discussion.... ehrnst Apr 2018 #17
Oh, really? Give it a break. My premise from the first was accomodation. But others deserve same. hlthe2b Apr 2018 #29
If a Senator needs to leave the floor, they cannot vote during that time. ehrnst Apr 2018 #78
Nonsense. There is no reason she can not plan for that. hlthe2b Apr 2018 #79
Oh, so you think that they will want her pumping on the Senate floor? ehrnst Apr 2018 #106
Oh, yes, because that is the ONLY way it could work, right? hlthe2b Apr 2018 #122
Again.... leaving the Senate floor is the issue here. ehrnst Apr 2018 #178
Your premise was faulty because they're not offering accomodation. pnwmom Apr 2018 #85
Your premise is faulty because we are stating an ALTERNATIVE accomodation should be demanded hlthe2b Apr 2018 #93
Too late. She's due THIS MONTH. They're not somehow going to be able to create space pnwmom Apr 2018 #101
Bullshit. A room nearby can temporarily be repurposed. She wants a rule change--that should be hlthe2b Apr 2018 #105
What is best for the child is being in her mother's arms. The Senate would do just fine. pnwmom Apr 2018 #108
If she wants (and surely SHOULD) be able to continue as a Senator, she is going to need help hlthe2b Apr 2018 #112
Your "concern" is noted, but your "concern" indicates that Duckworth doesn't know what ehrnst Apr 2018 #144
Her second daughter. She likely understands an infants needs irisblue Apr 2018 #182
"unearned self-sanctimony" ehrnst Apr 2018 #189
Her baby, her choice. She knows what she needs better than anyone else. n/t pnwmom Apr 2018 #288
LOL pangaia Apr 2018 #150
Maybe I dreamed it, but I thought she'd given birth already. moriah Apr 2018 #287
LOL. Yes, she did! I knew the due date was in April but I'd missed the happy event! pnwmom Apr 2018 #289
Anything that requires her to leave the Senate floor is not an accomodation. ehrnst Apr 2018 #107
Yes, there is. Action_Patrol Apr 2018 #185
The point is, that it's off the Senate floor. ehrnst Apr 2018 #191
I work for the Senate. Yes, I understand. Action_Patrol Apr 2018 #198
Then it should not be the huge problem that many on this thread seem to think it will be ehrnst Apr 2018 #206
It's against Senate rules to have a baby in there as well. The Senate Parliamentarian pnwmom Apr 2018 #226
The cloakroom is not wheelchair accessible, too. (nt) ehrnst Apr 2018 #295
sounds like male designed rules to keep the silly womenfolk out of the workplace/off the floor BoneyardDem Apr 2018 #329
LOL pangaia Apr 2018 #149
The concern trolling here is astounding... ehrnst Apr 2018 #151
You have more patients than I. ))))) pangaia Apr 2018 #156
Funny How Little Things Have Changed When It Comes To Women Me. Apr 2018 #271
Your strawman is noted. It is your addition that the infant was nursing. hlthe2b Apr 2018 #20
Um.... that's what prompted the rule. ehrnst Apr 2018 #35
The OP says nothing about nursing, just allowing babies in the Senate chambers hlthe2b Apr 2018 #48
So that parents would not have to leave the floor during votes when there is ehrnst Apr 2018 #74
Ever notice that when one can't see the logic in comments of some it's a "strawman"? George II Apr 2018 #168
You haven't kept up with the issue. Tammy Duckworth has been talking about the problem pnwmom Apr 2018 #111
Bullshit. I have repeaatedly posted and your need to go back to all previous posts to make a point hlthe2b Apr 2018 #115
Where did you discuss the fact that no accommodation was made for Kristin Gillibrand? pnwmom Apr 2018 #117
aww, another strawman. Anything else you want to introduce into the discussion. Forget it hlthe2b Apr 2018 #121
But you'll be back the minute someone posts a reply. ehrnst Apr 2018 #123
LOL #2 I am almost enjoying reading this little discussion... pangaia Apr 2018 #152
It's not a straw man. It's directly relevant. She tried and failed to get accomodation. pnwmom Apr 2018 #127
Indeed. I think they had the same reaction when women wanted a decent restroom nearby. (nt) ehrnst Apr 2018 #179
The rule she is asking for appears to be more than just nursing Egnever Apr 2018 #213
Do you know how long a baby nurses? ehrnst Apr 2018 #223
The OP says nothing about nursing, just allowing babies in the Senate chambers MichMan Apr 2018 #22
Yes, and that will prohibit any nursing mother from being able to do her job.(nt) ehrnst Apr 2018 #37
Everyone here has advocated accommodation. so your posts are becoming incresibly disingenuous hlthe2b Apr 2018 #52
What's "incresibly disingenuous" is the assumption that ehrnst Apr 2018 #70
The Senate hasn't offered any accommodation of any sort, other than the bathroom. n/t pnwmom Apr 2018 #88
and we are saying that should be demanded. Just as women's bathrooms had to be constructed. hlthe2b Apr 2018 #91
That didn't happen until 2013. ehrnst Apr 2018 #98
She is wanting an accomodation rule passed now. So she should demand the RIGHT accomodation.. hlthe2b Apr 2018 #103
She is. And you're saying that she's a bad mother for wanting to bring an infant on the Senate floor ehrnst Apr 2018 #126
Your claiming I said something I NEVER said, Don't believe (that she is a bad mother) hlthe2b Apr 2018 #130
Actually, yes, you did. ehrnst Apr 2018 #139
It's common sense that there won't be a gaggle xmas74 Apr 2018 #30
I know - the slippery slope arguments going on here are amazing. And apparently the Senate floor is ehrnst Apr 2018 #102
Or CITI FIELD !!!! pangaia Apr 2018 #153
Supermarket, doctors office xmas74 Apr 2018 #272
Maybe that's the fear. It will spread like a horrible virus. If babies can be nursed in the SENATE pnwmom Apr 2018 #283
I remember pulling over at a roadside park xmas74 Apr 2018 #284
Omg. The nerve of some people! And I bet the complainer was a pro-lifer. n/t pnwmom Apr 2018 #285
A truck driving couple. xmas74 Apr 2018 #286
How do you think New Zealand handles it without descending into chaos? ehrnst Apr 2018 #299
you know what I find sorry? BoneyardDem Apr 2018 #328
Who talked about nursing??? She wants to bring the baby inside, nursing or not. DetlefK Apr 2018 #27
Tammy Duckworth did. (nt) ehrnst Apr 2018 #71
It's not in the OP. DetlefK Apr 2018 #76
Here: ehrnst Apr 2018 #90
Doesn't say a thing about nursing Egnever Apr 2018 #214
You think that she's talking about diaper changes? ehrnst Apr 2018 #222
Apparently the Senate is more progressive than you are on the topic ehrnst Apr 2018 #296
"nursing is ridiculous as well." Well, 100 Senators disagree with you, even the non-progressives pnwmom Apr 2018 #330
I bet you have never nursed a baby in your life. n/t pnwmom Apr 2018 #13
There are very many here splaining about how noisy an infant is while nursing ehrnst Apr 2018 #19
The OP says nothing about nursing, just allowing babies in the Senate chambers hlthe2b Apr 2018 #49
From the OP: ehrnst Apr 2018 #80
I care about the child's welfare. They deserve better than a chaotic Senate floor hlthe2b Apr 2018 #82
So you are saying that Duckworth is an irresponsible parent? ehrnst Apr 2018 #92
I'm saying she is demanding the WRONG accommodation. There needs to be a PERMANENT hlthe2b Apr 2018 #99
Anything that requires her to leave the Senate floor is not an accomodation. ehrnst Apr 2018 #110
I nursed four children...they don't cry while nursing. Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #72
Neither did my three. n/t pnwmom Apr 2018 #114
Or my two.... Heartstrings Apr 2018 #158
Strawman again. and you don't know a damned thing about my childbearing history hlthe2b Apr 2018 #24
I know you have never nursed a single baby, because by now you would have said pnwmom Apr 2018 #36
I do not post my private details. And no, I don't owe you that information at all. hlthe2b Apr 2018 #39
No one who has ever successfully nursed a baby would have the objections you have. pnwmom Apr 2018 #43
No one who is rational would argue against the infant being PROTECTED, ACCOMDATED in such a way hlthe2b Apr 2018 #45
So the Senate floor is dangerous for an infant? ehrnst Apr 2018 #47
Any baby who has been in a house with a TV and older siblings has been through worse. pnwmom Apr 2018 #50
I care about the infants wellfare and believe they will do fine just off the Senate floor protected hlthe2b Apr 2018 #53
What dangers do "I want to subject them to," exactly? ehrnst Apr 2018 #56
Off the Senate floor they will also be exposed to the frightful dangers of electric lighting, pnwmom Apr 2018 #57
I SAID in a nursing/infant room off the Senate Floor so that the Mother can vote and quickly return hlthe2b Apr 2018 #59
You know how long it took to get adequate womens' bathrooms at the Senate? ehrnst Apr 2018 #61
God knows we don't allow babies on the set of a television show, or in a mall ehrnst Apr 2018 #60
Babies don't nee quiet ...they need stimulation. Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #75
Babies are pretty resilient. Chemisse Apr 2018 #97
Your comments on nursing infants indicate a gap in your knowledge in that area. (nt) ehrnst Apr 2018 #66
No, it indicates a disingenous effort on your part to boister arguments. Despicable tactic that is hlthe2b Apr 2018 #84
My knowlege of what you have written in your posts is complete. ehrnst Apr 2018 #87
Can you? It doesn't seem so. But I can be sympathetic to your plight. hlthe2b Apr 2018 #137
What plight? ehrnst Apr 2018 #140
And there's the self-inflicted irony of the whole damned week. LanternWaste Apr 2018 #163
Talk about a straw man.... ehrnst Apr 2018 #180
Yep. (nt) ehrnst Apr 2018 #183
Again, that isn't going to work. You don't know a GD thing about me or anyone else and hlthe2b Apr 2018 #55
Your comments indicate some lack of knowledge on the subject. (nt) ehrnst Apr 2018 #64
You don't know a thing about me or anyone else. Your self-proclaimed "expertise" is no more hlthe2b Apr 2018 #69
I know what you have posted here. And it indicates a lack of understanding of nursing babies. (nt) ehrnst Apr 2018 #96
I know what YOU have posted which is disingenous as hell hlthe2b Apr 2018 #133
In what way? ehrnst Apr 2018 #136
That was my first thought.. Cha Apr 2018 #21
Furthermore, the pro lifers always forget about babies once born flibbitygiblets Apr 2018 #170
Great point, fg! Cha Apr 2018 #172
I agree. The workplace should be more family friendly and mothers should be given opportunities smirkymonkey Apr 2018 #7
Nursing babies aren't crying. They eat, and then they sleep. pnwmom Apr 2018 #11
they don't sleep in a noisy, brightly lit, camera filled, disruptive room. They cry. hlthe2b Apr 2018 #15
Not true. A nursing baby will nurse anywhere. If it's ever a problem, Duckworth pnwmom Apr 2018 #28
You introduced the nursing aspect. That was NOT the premise hlthe2b Apr 2018 #32
From the OP: ehrnst Apr 2018 #44
Duckworth has made it the issue. She's written op-eds about nursing in the Senate. n/t pnwmom Apr 2018 #58
I SAID in a nursing/infant room off the Senate Floor so that the Mother can vote and quickly return hlthe2b Apr 2018 #63
There is no such place. They're saying she should do it in the germy, smelly, bathroom. nt pnwmom Apr 2018 #73
and I am saying REPEATEDLY, that they need to ACCOMMODATE by providing one. hlthe2b Apr 2018 #89
Every single day, infants happily nurse in all sorts of locations -- like shopping malls, pnwmom Apr 2018 #94
"If we cared about the infant" we wouldn't want it on the Senate floor..... ehrnst Apr 2018 #113
Yes, despite your typo, I DO indeed think she is capable of caring for her infant hlthe2b Apr 2018 #118
No, you talked about how she is being an irresponsible parent ehrnst Apr 2018 #146
"Protective?" From what? ehrnst Apr 2018 #86
The OP says nothing about nursing, just allowing babies in the Senate chambers Your strawman. hlthe2b Apr 2018 #34
Duckworth has written about it. And speaking of dangerous (and disgusting) places, the option pnwmom Apr 2018 #62
Says the person who thinks the Senate is a dangerous place for an infant. ehrnst Apr 2018 #116
LOL.n/t pnwmom Apr 2018 #120
Yes, they do. ehrnst Apr 2018 #40
You dont' know a GD thing about me or anyone else here. Your opinions matter no more than mine hlthe2b Apr 2018 #46
Care of infants, and "what is dangerous" for them isn't a matter of opinion. ehrnst Apr 2018 #119
Your opinion is just one or many and counts no more than anyone elses. hlthe2b Apr 2018 #125
No - you don't trust Tammy Duckworth's opinion if the Senate floor is "safe" for her child ehrnst Apr 2018 #129
I disagree with her specific accommodation, not that she should demand accommodation. hlthe2b Apr 2018 #131
Anything that requires her to leave the Senate floor is not an accomodation. ehrnst Apr 2018 #142
That's actually not correct. Chemisse Apr 2018 #104
The child is giving up rights to a protective environment. A nearby repurposed office hlthe2b Apr 2018 #109
Where is this idea coming from? Do you not understand that nursing mothers routinely pnwmom Apr 2018 #124
DO YOU not understand what is best for both mother and infant, now and future? Apparently not hlthe2b Apr 2018 #128
DO YOU know better than Tammy Duckworth about how safe the Senate floor is for her infant? ehrnst Apr 2018 #132
Post removed Post removed Apr 2018 #135
Straw man. When did I say you were male? ehrnst Apr 2018 #154
that's nonsense Egnever Apr 2018 #211
Oh, you think that they're going to be just fine with pumping on the Senate floor? ehrnst Apr 2018 #224
In what way is anyone inconvenienced by a person putting Squinch Apr 2018 #320
Omg - you are so funny! Chemisse Apr 2018 #234
"The child is giving up rights to a protective environment" ?? mcar Apr 2018 #256
That's very true. greatauntoftriplets Apr 2018 #193
What if the baby decides that a huge hall full of loud people makes it cry? DetlefK Apr 2018 #18
Then the mother can hand the baby over to a babysitter to take it out. But a nipple pnwmom Apr 2018 #83
You think that she wants to park a crib on the Senate floor? ehrnst Apr 2018 #301
The OP says nothing about nursing, just allowing babies in the Senate chambers MichMan Apr 2018 #26
But Duckworth has made it clear that this is about nursing. However, pnwmom Apr 2018 #31
Yes, to overturn the ban, not set up a nursery on the Senate floor. ehrnst Apr 2018 #312
I disagree with you. Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #67
Fine.. I applaud you for not trying to inflate your own opinion by claiming I or others have no hlthe2b Apr 2018 #77
I have nursed at the mall and only once was I asked to leave. I always was very discreet. I refused Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #95
Pot, meet kettle... (nt) ehrnst Apr 2018 #155
"Those disrputive crying babies." pangaia Apr 2018 #145
I don't think it should be allowed, since it would interfere with the function of the Senate... Honeycombe8 Apr 2018 #147
I've been in board meetings with a nursing mother, and it was a small conference room. ehrnst Apr 2018 #148
Oh, I forgot that babies don't cry. My memories of being in theaters & church w/crying babies must Honeycombe8 Apr 2018 #280
Were those babies nursing in church? ehrnst Apr 2018 #293
What working women do.... Honeycombe8 Apr 2018 #338
You do need to pump on a regular basis during work hours. ehrnst Apr 2018 #339
Luckily for her and her baby, 100% of the Senate disagrees. n/t pnwmom Apr 2018 #290
Inasmuch as the Senate has existed for about 240 years (100 members for the last 58 years).... George II Apr 2018 #188
Crying Babies? Mitch McConnell has been allowed on the Seante floor for years. FSogol Apr 2018 #204
How come Iceland's parliament manages just fine with nursing babies mainer Apr 2018 #250
Thanks! Great point! nt pnwmom Apr 2018 #291
Sorry, but No. DetlefK Apr 2018 #5
Babies are in many workplaces. They don't belong on factory floors or dangerous places. pnwmom Apr 2018 #33
THAT was the accomodation I recommended. NO. they do not belong on factory floors or dangerous hlthe2b Apr 2018 #38
The Senate floor is not full of bright lights, loud noises, and disruption. 95% of the time, pnwmom Apr 2018 #41
So you think that the Senate can work in noisy disruptive environs ehrnst Apr 2018 #42
Offices Yes. But not places where they inconvenient people trying to do their jobs. DetlefK Apr 2018 #51
How is a nursing baby going to keep them from doing their job? ehrnst Apr 2018 #138
They will hear it. DetlefK Apr 2018 #160
Babies fall asleep after nursing. (nt) ehrnst Apr 2018 #162
I never knew that you can just turn them off and on again. DetlefK Apr 2018 #166
You are confused on what I was saying. ehrnst Apr 2018 #174
Your first-hand experience with childbirth issues is a font of knowledge Tarc Apr 2018 #255
Easy. You rub their cheek with a nipple. They reflexively turn toward it with an open mouth, pnwmom Apr 2018 #326
Maybe we should ban babies from all public places flibbitygiblets Apr 2018 #173
Apparently noisy public places are suddenly unsafe for babies, who can't nurse there... ehrnst Apr 2018 #176
Lol, or when teachers want fair pay flibbitygiblets Apr 2018 #184
Yep- suddenly it's "those poor, poor children!!" ehrnst Apr 2018 #186
And failing to renew CHIP. As a bargaining tool. flibbitygiblets Apr 2018 #195
Breastfed babies nurse off and on. They fall asleep after breastfeeding and if they're hungry again pnwmom Apr 2018 #325
Offices, no. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2018 #164
The presence of women used to be considered disruptive in offices. (nt) ehrnst Apr 2018 #177
Except the presence of babies is *actually* disruptive. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2018 #208
Babies can't cry while they are nursing. ehrnst Apr 2018 #209
what a dumb comment Egnever Apr 2018 #215
What a dumb comeback ehrnst Apr 2018 #240
People don't normally nurse their babies 8 hours a day. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2018 #219
Exactly. The wheels of state will not come to a grinding halt if a baby nurses every few hours ehrnst Apr 2018 #241
No. Not "exactly". Act_of_Reparation Apr 2018 #249
Well, she's trying to get the conversation started for more workplaces where it is possible ehrnst Apr 2018 #294
How does the government of New Zealand ever get anything done? ehrnst Apr 2018 #300
Well, they're not really civilized over there. Not like us. Mariana Apr 2018 #331
lolz obamanut2012 Apr 2018 #167
In what way will a nursing baby once every few hours "inconvenience" others on the Senate floor? ehrnst Apr 2018 #242
Someone on the senate floor Soxfan58 Apr 2018 #23
When people bring their children to my workplace, its disruptive. milestogo Apr 2018 #54
In what way? ehrnst Apr 2018 #246
Noise and distraction milestogo Apr 2018 #274
So it's a situation where there are cubicles. ehrnst Apr 2018 #275
Many people at my company are allowed to work from home. milestogo Apr 2018 #278
I thought you said that people are bringing kids in to the office and are disruptive ehrnst Apr 2018 #302
Oopsie. nt Mariana Apr 2018 #332
Tammy, Tammy, Tammy. The majority only likes babies in utero. Vinca Apr 2018 #65
While reading the comments above Heartstrings Apr 2018 #165
Yeah, I can hear that too. mountain grammy Apr 2018 #169
After they tell her that "they are only concerned with what is best for the baby and mother" ehrnst Apr 2018 #247
Tammy Duckworth may have to breastfeed in a BATHROOM off the Senate floor, pnwmom Apr 2018 #68
Does she not have an office? Tipperary Apr 2018 #134
Her office is in the Hart Senate Office Building. Ilsa Apr 2018 #157
There is a place like that off of Statuary Hall Action_Patrol Apr 2018 #190
Is it comfortable? A quiet room with soft chairs, maybe Ilsa Apr 2018 #192
Theres no rocker... Action_Patrol Apr 2018 #196
Cool! Thanks! nt Ilsa Apr 2018 #199
Can she vote from there? ehrnst Apr 2018 #248
Go fight someone else. Action_Patrol Apr 2018 #279
Thanks, and I agree. I was just horrified to think she would be forced to use a bathroom. Tipperary Apr 2018 #202
They already allow babies on the senate floor unblock Apr 2018 #81
Oh my lord this thread is fucking hilarious. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2018 #100
Need to think long-term about this one TheRealNorth Apr 2018 #141
Which will only serve.... thewhollytoast Apr 2018 #143
No, just make the rule Nursing Mothers period flibbitygiblets Apr 2018 #181
that is not what is being proposed I don't think Egnever Apr 2018 #218
+1 sandensea Apr 2018 #221
I think a nursing room should be installed in the Capitol Building. Ilsa Apr 2018 #159
Careful, That's what I'm promoting and I was excoriated & accused of "mansplaining"tho I'm FEMALE! hlthe2b Apr 2018 #220
That would be great - there are way more female employees in the Senate than just Senators. ehrnst Apr 2018 #304
That's an excellent idea, but it wouldn't solve Sen. Duckworth's situation. Mariana Apr 2018 #333
I am not sure we want to let this happen dsc Apr 2018 #161
LOL leftstreet Apr 2018 #194
Has anyone been or worked in a child care facility lately? Heartstrings Apr 2018 #175
minngal marieo1 Apr 2018 #187
What about comfort animals? Sneederbunk Apr 2018 #197
What. The. Actual. Fuck. flibbitygiblets Apr 2018 #201
Everything I post is sarcasm. Sneederbunk Apr 2018 #205
Once babies are officially allowed on the floor, it will be appropriate... S.E. TN Liberal Apr 2018 #200
How card is it to just bring in some sort of opaque screen or something and a nice small couch Afromania Apr 2018 #203
Or better yet how hard is it to have the baby wait for the few minutes it takes to vote. Egnever Apr 2018 #216
Some of congress is already comprised of infants, so should be fine. n/t RKP5637 Apr 2018 #207
Fuck that Egnever Apr 2018 #210
Yes, the work of Men will not wait or be paused for mere childcare. ehrnst Apr 2018 #225
They can hold the vote Egnever Apr 2018 #227
One more person who has obviously never successfully breastfed a baby. nt pnwmom Apr 2018 #230
ahaha Egnever Apr 2018 #233
Owning a breast pump is not mark of any special knowledge of breastfeeding. pnwmom Apr 2018 #235
Good for you! Egnever Apr 2018 #238
So now you don't think that they should hold the vote. ehrnst Apr 2018 #239
no not at all Egnever Apr 2018 #243
+1. n/t pnwmom Apr 2018 #244
From what I understand, they don't hold the vote for anybody. ehrnst Apr 2018 #232
Women find children irritating, too. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2018 #237
The arrogance and presumption of adults who forget that babies are human -- pnwmom Apr 2018 #245
I don't enjoy being around babies because I have forgotten babies are human? Act_of_Reparation Apr 2018 #253
Your enjoyment or non-enjoyment is beside the point. This is about a woman Senator's pnwmom Apr 2018 #254
No, much of the discussion here is broader than one woman in the Senate. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2018 #257
The OP is about Duckworth's attempt to bring in her nursing baby and not exclude herself pnwmom Apr 2018 #258
I understand what the OP is about. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2018 #264
You mean like in New Zealand? ehrnst Apr 2018 #305
No, I don't mean like any legislature anywhere. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2018 #306
The New Zealand parlaiment is a workplace. ehrnst Apr 2018 #307
Fallacy of composition. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2018 #309
So what were you talking about here? ehrnst Apr 2018 #310
It's pretty straightforward. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2018 #313
When did I say that "people should be bringing their infants to the workplace?" ehrnst Apr 2018 #315
Right here: Act_of_Reparation Apr 2018 #317
No, that is not about babies, that's about women. ehrnst Apr 2018 #318
Yes, very much so. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2018 #319
you, calling babies larvae is is absolutely a method of dehumanizing? BoneyardDem Apr 2018 #335
Fuck the sexist attitude of those in the Senate who would stop her. n/t pnwmom Apr 2018 #228
it's not sexist to say babies don't belong on the senate floor. Egnever Apr 2018 #229
Nursing babies belong in any non-dangerous public place that mothers belong in. pnwmom Apr 2018 #231
no sorry they don't Egnever Apr 2018 #236
Well, other civilized countries manage. ehrnst Apr 2018 #308
It's just behind other countries, in terms of what is done there to accomodate families ehrnst Apr 2018 #311
I really can't understand what everyone's (or some) problem is with this, they're losing the context George II Apr 2018 #259
I know. It's so overblown. I can't figure out why some people are so threatened by this. pnwmom Apr 2018 #260
I just looked it up: George II Apr 2018 #263
The topic of breastfeeding always brings out the knuckle-draggers here. Squinch Apr 2018 #277
This message was self-deleted by its author Egnever Apr 2018 #212
K & R 50 Shades Of Blue Apr 2018 #217
I knew this thread was gonna be lively mokawanis Apr 2018 #251
What next? Mme. Defarge Apr 2018 #252
You're seriously going to compare the Senate chamber to an operating room? n/t pnwmom Apr 2018 #261
Apparently, Mme. Defarge Apr 2018 #262
Were you joking? n/t pnwmom Apr 2018 #265
Admittedly exaggerating Mme. Defarge Apr 2018 #267
Friends here disagree all the time. pnwmom Apr 2018 #268
I forget a lot of stuff these days! Mme. Defarge Apr 2018 #269
Sometimes that's a handy feature. pnwmom Apr 2018 #270
That's some slippery slope there.... ehrnst Apr 2018 #303
Yes! "Breast feeding!!! Run away! Run away!" Squinch Apr 2018 #314
OK, kids. It's essentially saying that a Senator with a child under one can bring that child Squinch Apr 2018 #266
What about grandchildren? MichMan Apr 2018 #273
What about them? If some guy wants to carry his 6 month old grandchild onto the senate Squinch Apr 2018 #276
Have you seen the crazy shit republicans have done in the last decade? Egnever Apr 2018 #292
Yes, we do understand some men's fear of breast feeding, Squinch Apr 2018 #298
No you don't understand a thing Egnever Apr 2018 #321
Poor dears. So troubled by the presence of infants. Squinch Apr 2018 #323
Post removed Post removed Apr 2018 #324
The reply to my reply must have been a doozie! And I didn't even get to see it! Squinch Apr 2018 #336
There can't be many, most Senators are over 60 years old. George II Apr 2018 #282
Didn't see if anyone posted it here, but the Senate approved the rule change unanimously: George II Apr 2018 #281
And she wins! Apparently the GOP led Senate is more progressive on this ehrnst Apr 2018 #297
Wow! The Senate Republicans see reason for once mcar Apr 2018 #316
Inviting someone to make the 50th recommendation. nt LAS14 Apr 2018 #322
They let one give the SOTU Address, FFS. n/t Orsino Apr 2018 #327
If a senator in Austalia can breastfeed while addressing parliament in 2017, and... haele Apr 2018 #334
I think it's about the boobies. Makes 'em nutty. Squinch Apr 2018 #337

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
1. I think a lot of accomodations need to occur for nursing mothers in the workplace but I just don't
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:01 AM
Apr 2018

agree with this. Should they be accommodated close by under the care of a trusted aid so the Mother can nurse. Sure. But crying newborns on the Senate floor? Really? Ummm, NO Sorry...

 

thewhollytoast

(318 posts)
2. I don't really see a problem
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:11 AM
Apr 2018

What with Turtle-Boy, Lindsey Graham and the rest of them already behaving like children I doubt a new-born will hardly be noticed. Plus, having new-born constituent present might remind the Senate of just exactly who they should be working for.

Toast

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
3. that's the point... They hardly get anything done right now. Seriously, though... NO
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:16 AM
Apr 2018

Common sense needs to win out occasionally. We can accommodate new parents without disrupting EVERYTHING.

 

thewhollytoast

(318 posts)
25. I just keep thinking during the run up to Iraq how Robert Byrd might have appreciated the company
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:31 AM
Apr 2018


Toast

Volaris

(10,271 posts)
171. I'd like to hope that as well,
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 09:30 AM
Apr 2018

But this will be about breastfeeding, and therefore, about what crusty, repressed, Old White Men think breasts are for (not that, in case you haven't been paying attention).

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
4. There have been worse than crying infants on the Senate floor
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:19 AM
Apr 2018

including cameras clicking away, lights, etc.

And usually nursing infants aren't crying - they can't cry and nurse at the same time. Old white men will adjust to the idea of being in the presence of a baby while getting things done.

I assume they would prefer that she pump while on the Senate floor?



hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
6. No... There are places children do not belong and that includes the "ADULT children" that the RW
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:20 AM
Apr 2018

continues to send to Congress.

I would add that your point about bright lights, clicking cameras, and general commotion argues even further why infants and children have no business on the floor of the Senate--for THEIR sake. That's hardly a soothing environment for THEM.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
8. If a baby nursing can bring our democratic process to a halt
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:22 AM
Apr 2018

What kind of process is it?

It's not like there are going to ever be a gaggle of infants on the floor at once.

I've been in board meetings with a nursing mother, and it was a small conference room.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
10. I've been in board meetings with a nursing mother, and it was a small conference room.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:24 AM
Apr 2018

It didn't take long and the nanny took the baby shortly thereafter.

The Senate floor is HUGE.

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
12. and how do you think that meeting would have progressed if the infant had cried all the way through.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:25 AM
Apr 2018

WE pay these Senators/Congressmen to do the people's business. Accommodating does not mean letting OUR BUSINESS stop when a nursing/infant room can/SHOULD be accommodated just off the Senate floor

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
14. Why do you think that an infant would be left on the Senate floor crying?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:28 AM
Apr 2018

A baby can't nurse and cry at the same time.

As I said - once the nursing is done, the baby can be taken back to the office....

Again - do you think that the Senate would prefer she pump on the Senate floor?

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
16. A baby can't nurse and cry at the same time. It's physically impossible.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:28 AM
Apr 2018

And babies don't suddenly stop nursing so they can cry instead. They gradually take fewer and fewer sucks till they fall asleep.

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
29. Oh, really? Give it a break. My premise from the first was accomodation. But others deserve same.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:33 AM
Apr 2018
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
78. If a Senator needs to leave the floor, they cannot vote during that time.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:59 AM
Apr 2018

Any "accomodation" that requires them to leave the floor, isn't an accomodation.

Is that clearer?

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
79. Nonsense. There is no reason she can not plan for that.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:00 AM
Apr 2018

for the few minutes needed to vote and then return to the child or have an expresssed breast milk bottle available

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
106. Oh, so you think that they will want her pumping on the Senate floor?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:14 AM
Apr 2018

Again.... anything that would take her from the Senate floor is not an "accomodation."

How long do you think it takes to nurse an infant?

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
85. Your premise was faulty because they're not offering accomodation.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:05 AM
Apr 2018

There is no pleasant, quiet, dimly lit little room off the Senate floor. Even the Senate cloakroom is subject to the same sexist rules. All they're offering her is a stinky bathroom.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
101. Too late. She's due THIS MONTH. They're not somehow going to be able to create space
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:11 AM
Apr 2018

out of nothing and give her a private nursing room by the time she has the baby.

And she doesn't need one anyway. Nursing babies are highly portable. That's one of the great advantages of breastfeeding.

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
105. Bullshit. A room nearby can temporarily be repurposed. She wants a rule change--that should be
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:13 AM
Apr 2018

the immediate demand. What is BEST FOR THE CHILD.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
108. What is best for the child is being in her mother's arms. The Senate would do just fine.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:15 AM
Apr 2018

In fact, those droning voices would put even a non-nursing baby to sleep.

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
112. If she wants (and surely SHOULD) be able to continue as a Senator, she is going to need help
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:18 AM
Apr 2018

and having her child nearby in a safe accessible environment is the way it should work for both. Accommodation involves some compromise, but it should have as its premise and priority, the BEST course for the child, first and then the Mother.

Funny how I seem more concerned about that infant than many here including those promoting their own unearned self-sanctimony

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
144. Your "concern" is noted, but your "concern" indicates that Duckworth doesn't know what
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:44 AM
Apr 2018

is good or safe for her own infant.

She works in the Senate - why do you think you know more than she does about how "safe" it is?

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
189. "unearned self-sanctimony"
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 09:53 AM
Apr 2018

Like those that claim Tammy Duckworth has no clue as to what is and isn't good for her own infant?

Then switch gears and say that it's not about the infant, but the feelings rest of the Senate that's being talked about here...




 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
107. Anything that requires her to leave the Senate floor is not an accomodation.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:15 AM
Apr 2018

Nursing isn't the same as going to the bathroom, and the baby isn't a womans' bladder.

Action_Patrol

(845 posts)
185. Yes, there is.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 09:48 AM
Apr 2018

That’s what the Cloakroom is. There’s one for each party on each side of the floor. It’s literally only as far away and pushing a door and you’re on the floor to register your vote with the Clerk and back you go.

There’s also a Senator’s lounge behind the lobby (it’s behind the wall the rostrum is on).

There are plenty of places for anyone to go. The Senate has assigned seating. I can’t imagine a time or place where anyone is forced to sit in their seat much less with an infant for an extended period of time. That’s just not how the Senate works.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
191. The point is, that it's off the Senate floor.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 09:57 AM
Apr 2018

Do you know how long it takes to nurse an infant?

I believe that excuse about why women just can't be happy with what they have was also given when the women in the Senate asked for another bathroom, when there was already one with two stalls closeby, geeze...

The restroom closest to the Senate floor that was set aside for women senators had only two stalls. By 2013, with 20 women in the Senate, restroom traffic jams were commonplace, forcing some of the female senators to traipse to a first-floor restroom far from the chamber. Two additional stalls, an extra sink and more storage space were added in the fall of 2013, after several female senators raised the issue publicly.


https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/senate-women-secret-history-113908

The idea that women are being overly demanding in this primarily male institution is not new. But after decades, they are forced to deal with it.

Best to start this battle now, for the next Senator in this situation.

Action_Patrol

(845 posts)
198. I work for the Senate. Yes, I understand.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:18 AM
Apr 2018

I also have three children. I fully understand the needs of infants.

I don’t fault or discount her desire for Floor accommodations, I just know that there is rarely ever a time or need for them to actually sit and stay on the Senate Floor. If she wants to make accommodations for that rare time, then I support her.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
206. Then it should not be the huge problem that many on this thread seem to think it will be
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:42 AM
Apr 2018

Considering also that one needs to be 30 to be a Senator, the likelyhood of it being turned into a nursery - as many here seem to be afraid of - is highly unlikely.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
226. It's against Senate rules to have a baby in there as well. The Senate Parliamentarian
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 02:11 PM
Apr 2018

already said the only place she could go under the rules was in the bathroom. He specifically excluded the cloak room. But you can't vote from the cloak room or the bathroom -- which is a disgusting place to nurse -- and that is the point.

 

BoneyardDem

(1,202 posts)
329. sounds like male designed rules to keep the silly womenfolk out of the workplace/off the floor
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 02:31 PM
Apr 2018

time for a change

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
149. LOL
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:51 AM
Apr 2018

I can not believe some of the comments opposing the idea...



And I am a 74 year old guy, who has never personally nursed a baby, if it even matters...

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
151. The concern trolling here is astounding...
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:54 AM
Apr 2018

This quote particularly from someone who thinks that any woman who would bring a child onto the Senate floor is a bad parent:

"Funny how I seem more concerned about that infant than many here including those promoting their own unearned self-sanctimony"


Me.

(35,454 posts)
271. Funny How Little Things Have Changed When It Comes To Women
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 06:35 PM
Apr 2018

and their needs, even here on DU.

Damn women for having babies, what are they thinking!





 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
35. Um.... that's what prompted the rule.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:35 AM
Apr 2018

A nursing mother would not have to leave the floor to nurse.

Yes, they are also talking about accomodating a parent who is bottle feeding as part of a greater movement in the workplace.

You didn't seem to know that babies who are nursing don't cry.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
74. So that parents would not have to leave the floor during votes when there is
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:57 AM
Apr 2018

a need only the parent can provide for, like nursing.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
111. You haven't kept up with the issue. Tammy Duckworth has been talking about the problem
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:17 AM
Apr 2018

of nursing on the Senate floor for a long time. Kristin Gillibrand did, too. And no accommodation was ever made for her. When she had a nursing baby, she had to literally stick her head through the door to vote.

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
115. Bullshit. I have repeaatedly posted and your need to go back to all previous posts to make a point
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:19 AM
Apr 2018

I've already addressed is bullshit..

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
121. aww, another strawman. Anything else you want to introduce into the discussion. Forget it
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:21 AM
Apr 2018

I find your tactics no longer worth my time.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
127. It's not a straw man. It's directly relevant. She tried and failed to get accomodation.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:25 AM
Apr 2018

And there is no reason related to the baby's comfort that Duckworth can't carry the child to her seat on the Senate floor.

The only people with some discomfort might be some old fogies in the area.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
213. The rule she is asking for appears to be more than just nursing
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 11:21 AM
Apr 2018

And voting takes minutes the baby can wait.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
70. What's "incresibly disingenuous" is the assumption that
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:56 AM
Apr 2018

there will be a "nursing room" created just off the Senate floor.

Also, leaving the Senate floor disqualifies you from any votes during that period.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
98. That didn't happen until 2013.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:10 AM
Apr 2018

The restroom closest to the Senate floor that was set aside for women senators had only two stalls. By 2013, with 20 women in the Senate, restroom traffic jams were commonplace, forcing some of the female senators to traipse to a first-floor restroom far from the chamber. Two additional stalls, an extra sink and more storage space were added in the fall of 2013, after several female senators raised the issue publicly.



Your point?

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
103. She is wanting an accomodation rule passed now. So she should demand the RIGHT accomodation..
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:12 AM
Apr 2018

One that is best for both mother and child.

You can't tell me they can't repurpose a room near the Senate floor until more appropriate permanent arrangements can be constructed. THAT IS WHAT businesses do all the time.

I care about the child. The Senate floor is not good for THEM.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
126. She is. And you're saying that she's a bad mother for wanting to bring an infant on the Senate floor
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:25 AM
Apr 2018

I think that there's something else going on here than "caring about the child."

Otherwise you would support a new mother having the ability to nurse her child.

But you don't.


You certainly don't trust Tammy Duckworth, who has been on the actual Senate floor and doesn't see it as a danger.

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
130. Your claiming I said something I NEVER said, Don't believe (that she is a bad mother)
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:28 AM
Apr 2018

is beyond dishonest. SHAME ON YOU

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
139. Actually, yes, you did.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:34 AM
Apr 2018
Some loving, protective parent...


https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210508857#post45


You also say that those who don't agree with you that the Senate floor is no place for an infant are "not rational"

No one who is rational would argue against the infant being PROTECTED, ACCOMDATED in such a way


Funny how I seem more concerned about that infant than many here including those promoting their own unearned self-sanctimony.


Classic examples of 'splaining.

xmas74

(29,674 posts)
30. It's common sense that there won't be a gaggle
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:33 AM
Apr 2018

Because most who serve are older and don't have many babies at home.

This is mostly about nursing mothers but to be inclusive in the bill overall is lovely.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
102. I know - the slippery slope arguments going on here are amazing. And apparently the Senate floor is
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:12 AM
Apr 2018

"dangerous" with all the noise and people and lights...

Not at all like an airport, outdoor concert, parade, public park...

xmas74

(29,674 posts)
272. Supermarket, doctors office
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 06:37 PM
Apr 2018

Or any other place.

It's a silly argument. I just don't understand why others can't see if this passes it will set an example for employers across the country.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
283. Maybe that's the fear. It will spread like a horrible virus. If babies can be nursed in the SENATE
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:33 PM
Apr 2018

where can't they be nursed?

THE HORROR!

xmas74

(29,674 posts)
284. I remember pulling over at a roadside park
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:36 PM
Apr 2018

And nursing my baby in my car. A trooper was at the park and knocked on my window. He'd had a complaint about public nudity and indecency. He advised me to find a new place and said there was a bathroom stall if needed.

We've come a long way in seventeen years.

xmas74

(29,674 posts)
286. A truck driving couple.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:41 PM
Apr 2018

The husband stared and the wife screamed when I wasn't hauled off. That's the only reason why I knew who made the complaint.

 

BoneyardDem

(1,202 posts)
328. you know what I find sorry?
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 02:17 PM
Apr 2018

that in this case, you attempt to define womanhood as either a mother or like a male politician. There are no two ways. It's that binary thinking that has held back progress. Women will continue to press ALL of the personal and professional buttons with increasing frequency and with great success.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
90. Here:
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:06 AM
Apr 2018
"For me to find out that there are issues with the United States Senate's rules where I may not be able to vote or bring my child on to the floor of the Senate when I need to vote because we ban children from the floor, I thought, 'Wow, I feel like I'm living in the 19th century instead of the 21st, and we need to make some of these changes,'" Duckworth told CNN's Christiane Amanpour.
 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
214. Doesn't say a thing about nursing
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 11:24 AM
Apr 2018

and nursing is ridiculous as well.

Voting takes minutes the baby can wait.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
222. You think that she's talking about diaper changes?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 01:58 PM
Apr 2018

Seriously?

She's talking about nursing, but she is addressing the larger concerns, long term.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
330. "nursing is ridiculous as well." Well, 100 Senators disagree with you, even the non-progressives
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 02:37 PM
Apr 2018

on the other side.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
19. There are very many here splaining about how noisy an infant is while nursing
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:30 AM
Apr 2018

who clearly haven't been around one while they were nursing.


 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
80. From the OP:
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:00 AM
Apr 2018

"For me to find out that there are issues with the United States Senate's rules where I may not be able to vote or bring my child on to the floor of the Senate when I need to vote because we ban children from the floor, I thought, 'Wow, I feel like I'm living in the 19th century instead of the 21st, and we need to make some of these changes,'"

If there is a need that can be met by a caretaker, then she can vote without the child on the floor.

If there is a need that cannot be met by a caretaker - such as nursing - then she needs to be able to be on the floor during that time.

Is that clearer?

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
82. I care about the child's welfare. They deserve better than a chaotic Senate floor
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:02 AM
Apr 2018

Nearby, but safe, secure, and calming. THAT IS WHAT TRUE accommodation would be.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
92. So you are saying that Duckworth is an irresponsible parent?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:08 AM
Apr 2018

Along with any parent that takes their child to a public park, a mall, an outdoor concert, an airport, a parade?

Really?

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
99. I'm saying she is demanding the WRONG accommodation. There needs to be a PERMANENT
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:10 AM
Apr 2018

one for ALL newborns--not just her own and well into the future. One that is BEST for both mother and child.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
110. Anything that requires her to leave the Senate floor is not an accomodation.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:16 AM
Apr 2018

And nursing a child is what is best for the child.

All this talk about what is "best for the mother and child" when talking about restricting her is getting very paternalistic.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
36. I know you have never nursed a single baby, because by now you would have said
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:36 AM
Apr 2018

if you had.

But it's been obvious from the beginning because your objections weren't reality based.

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
39. I do not post my private details. And no, I don't owe you that information at all.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:38 AM
Apr 2018

That is despicable of you. For all you know, I or others may have lost children, miscarried, or suffered other tragedies. You need to think before you post such.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
43. No one who has ever successfully nursed a baby would have the objections you have.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:39 AM
Apr 2018

Like I said, they're not reality based.

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
45. No one who is rational would argue against the infant being PROTECTED, ACCOMDATED in such a way
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:41 AM
Apr 2018

that hey could be close by to nurse, attended by loving staffers, but not subjected to bright lights, chaos, loud noise, tv cameras on the floor of the Senate.

Some loving, protective parent...

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
47. So the Senate floor is dangerous for an infant?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:43 AM
Apr 2018

You mean like a Mall is? Or a park?

And the Senate can function with all those disruptions, but not if an infant lets out a cry or two before nursing?


That's "rational?"



And you know the minute any staffer took care of an infant, the deplorables would be ranting about using taxpayer money for childsitting.

It's not the job of staffers, no matter how loving to do this.

You seem to have a very odd view of childcare.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
50. Any baby who has been in a house with a TV and older siblings has been through worse.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:44 AM
Apr 2018

A few TV cameras in that huge room aren't going to be a big deal for a baby. Neither is the normal Senate lighting or the drone of Senators' voices.

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
53. I care about the infants wellfare and believe they will do fine just off the Senate floor protected
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:46 AM
Apr 2018

against what YOU want to subject them to.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
56. What dangers do "I want to subject them to," exactly?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:48 AM
Apr 2018

Please specify.

And do you think Tammy Duckworth is an irresponsible parent? You seem to imply that.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
57. Off the Senate floor they will also be exposed to the frightful dangers of electric lighting,
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:49 AM
Apr 2018

reporters with cameras, and people speaking.

I don't want Tammy Duckworth or any other Democratic woman to miss an important Senate vote because she needed to nurse her baby. She shouldn't have to choose, when the solution is as simple as lifting her shirt.

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
59. I SAID in a nursing/infant room off the Senate Floor so that the Mother can vote and quickly return
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:52 AM
Apr 2018
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
60. God knows we don't allow babies on the set of a television show, or in a mall
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:52 AM
Apr 2018

or at a park, or at fireworks, or a crowded restaurant, or a parade, or an outdoor concert, or an airport....

Only bad parents do that, apparently.

Chemisse

(30,811 posts)
97. Babies are pretty resilient.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:09 AM
Apr 2018

I wouldn't hesitate to bring a newborn there. It can hardly be more chaotic and loud that walking down a city street. I've actually nursed my baby WHILE walking down a city street!

Most tiny infants are pretty quiet and can sleep through anything; it's the older babies that wake easily at times, and fuzz and coo and make a general racket.

I would assume she would have a nanny there with her to take the baby out of the room when appropriate.

I think this is a wonderful idea.

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
84. No, it indicates a disingenous effort on your part to boister arguments. Despicable tactic that is
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:04 AM
Apr 2018

beneath you, given your total lack of knowledge of me or anyone else

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
140. What plight?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:39 AM
Apr 2018

Calling out someone who takes a very paternalistic view that a woman cannot possibly be "rational" or "protective" of their infant if they think that their workplace is safe for a child.

That plight?

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
163. And there's the self-inflicted irony of the whole damned week.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 09:08 AM
Apr 2018

"You need to think before you post..."

And there's the self-inflicted irony of the whole damned week.

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
55. Again, that isn't going to work. You don't know a GD thing about me or anyone else and
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:47 AM
Apr 2018

history of childbirth/rearing.

Y

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
69. You don't know a thing about me or anyone else. Your self-proclaimed "expertise" is no more
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:56 AM
Apr 2018

significant than anyone elses' here and more to the point matters no more than anyone else's opinion.


 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
96. I know what you have posted here. And it indicates a lack of understanding of nursing babies. (nt)
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:09 AM
Apr 2018
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
136. In what way?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:32 AM
Apr 2018

You are the one who thinks you know what is best for Tammy and her baby, and she clearly doesn't, even though she's in the Senate every day.

Tell me who's "disingenous as hell."

flibbitygiblets

(7,220 posts)
170. Furthermore, the pro lifers always forget about babies once born
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 09:29 AM
Apr 2018

This is another example, and they need to get a big dose of reality

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
7. I agree. The workplace should be more family friendly and mothers should be given opportunities
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:21 AM
Apr 2018

to nurse, but having crying babies in the workplace is disruptive and annoying. Not a good idea.

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
15. they don't sleep in a noisy, brightly lit, camera filled, disruptive room. They cry.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:28 AM
Apr 2018

Accommodation does not mean giving up everyone else's rights. Nor does it mean making the infant suffer as a result--just to make a point.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
28. Not true. A nursing baby will nurse anywhere. If it's ever a problem, Duckworth
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:32 AM
Apr 2018

can nurse her baby under a cotton cover.

Or, if the baby won't nurse, she can hand it to the babysitter who can remove it from the Senate.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
44. From the OP:
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:41 AM
Apr 2018

"For me to find out that there are issues with the United States Senate's rules where I may not be able to vote or bring my child on to the floor of the Senate when I need to vote because we ban children from the floor,"

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
63. I SAID in a nursing/infant room off the Senate Floor so that the Mother can vote and quickly return
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:53 AM
Apr 2018

THAT is a logical and PROTECTIVE Accomodation. You want to subject the infant to harm iMO

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
89. and I am saying REPEATEDLY, that they need to ACCOMMODATE by providing one.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:06 AM
Apr 2018

There used to be few or no bathrooms for women in Senate and House. That had to change, so too must this.

Not by inflicting stress on that poor infant. If you cared, that is what you would be demanding.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
94. Every single day, infants happily nurse in all sorts of locations -- like shopping malls,
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:08 AM
Apr 2018

Disney Land, and Chuckie Cheezes --that are much less boring than the usual Senate chamber.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
113. "If we cared about the infant" we wouldn't want it on the Senate floor.....
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:18 AM
Apr 2018

Sounds like you don't think Duckworth is capable of caring for her infant.

What about those poor infants in airports? Or outdoor concerts? Or shopping malls?

It's amazing that the human race has survived what with all these women not knowing how to care for infants.

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
118. Yes, despite your typo, I DO indeed think she is capable of caring for her infant
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:20 AM
Apr 2018

She is merely not looking at the long term solution for OTHERS.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
146. No, you talked about how she is being an irresponsible parent
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:49 AM
Apr 2018

and how anyone who is "concerned" about a baby wouldn't bring it to the floor of the Senate.

Now you are trying to backpedal since you've been called out on your backhanded slamming of her as a mother, who would 'stress out her baby unneccessarily to make your point.

Funny how I seem more concerned about that infant than many here including those promoting their own unearned self-sanctimony


Moving the goalposts....

But still very paternalistic.

And no, you don't have to be a male to have a paternalistic viewpoint.


 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
86. "Protective?" From what?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:05 AM
Apr 2018

And you seem to also have gaps in your knowledge about how long it took to even get a WOMEN'S BATHROOM in the Senate...let alone two... 2013!!

"The restroom closest to the Senate floor that was set aside for women senators had only two stalls. By 2013, with 20 women in the Senate, restroom traffic jams were commonplace, forcing some of the female senators to traipse to a first-floor restroom far from the chamber. Two additional stalls, an extra sink and more storage space were added in the fall of 2013, after several female senators raised the issue publicly."

So why do you think that they are suddenly going to create space for "nursing mothers."

And any "accomodation" that requires they leave the floor is not an accomodation.


You seem not to have much understanding about lights and noise and nursing babies..

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
62. Duckworth has written about it. And speaking of dangerous (and disgusting) places, the option
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:53 AM
Apr 2018

she has been offered is nursing her baby in the bathroom. Oh, that's a wonderful idea.

Anyone who thinks that is welcome to eat their dinner there.

http://www.newsweek.com/tammy-duckworth-may-have-breastfeed-bathroom-senate-floor-says-former-senate-807393

TAMMY DUCKWORTH MAY HAVE TO BREASTFEED IN A BATHROOM OFF THE SENATE FLOOR, SAYS FORMER SENATE PARLIAMENTARIAN

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
40. Yes, they do.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:38 AM
Apr 2018

Again... you seem to be unfamiliar with infants.

And if there are so many other distractions, why do you think that a few cries from an infant will shut everything down?

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
119. Care of infants, and "what is dangerous" for them isn't a matter of opinion.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:21 AM
Apr 2018

And going on about "what is best for mother and infant" while talking about restricting her from normal activities with her child is more than a bit paternalistic.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
129. No - you don't trust Tammy Duckworth's opinion if the Senate floor is "safe" for her child
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:27 AM
Apr 2018

And she works there.

What is so threatening to you about her nursing her child on the floor of the Senate?

Why don't you trust her as a mother?

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
142. Anything that requires her to leave the Senate floor is not an accomodation.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:43 AM
Apr 2018

That's the point of being able to bring her child "to the floor."

Is that clearer?

Chemisse

(30,811 posts)
104. That's actually not correct.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:13 AM
Apr 2018

Babies can sleep anywhere.

I'm curious what rights you think that other people are giving up in order to accommodate a mother and baby.

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
109. The child is giving up rights to a protective environment. A nearby repurposed office
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:15 AM
Apr 2018

even if temporary until a more permanent construction is the appropriate accommodation if you care about the child's welfare as well as Tammy's rights to nurse.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
124. Where is this idea coming from? Do you not understand that nursing mothers routinely
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:23 AM
Apr 2018

bring their babies almost anywhere?

They have to, because nursing babies want to nurse around the clock. And most mothers don't want to be trapped in their houses 24/7. That apparently is where you think they should be, so they'd be nice and safe.

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
128. DO YOU not understand what is best for both mother and infant, now and future? Apparently not
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:26 AM
Apr 2018

Accommodations should benefit both mother and child and that is what I proposed. Further it takes into account future needs which you apparently want to cede/ignore.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
132. DO YOU know better than Tammy Duckworth about how safe the Senate floor is for her infant?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:29 AM
Apr 2018

You apparently seem to ignore that she works there. Why do you know more than she does about the Senate, and what is good for her infant? Her opinion is far, far more informed than yours is on the issue.

That's a bit paternalistic, isn't it?


I have has similar discussions with pro-lifer's who say that they know what is best for the woman, more so that she does....


Response to ehrnst (Reply #132)

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
154. Straw man. When did I say you were male?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:57 AM
Apr 2018

A paternalistic point of view on this issue can be promoted by male or female.

Is that clearer?

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
211. that's nonsense
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 11:16 AM
Apr 2018

There are things called breast pumps for the times you just cant nurse.

Everywhere is not baby appropriate.

Heres an idea if you are thinking of having a baby how about you think of these issues and plan for them in advance instead of making everyone around you conform to your decision.

Raised three babies and I find the idea everyone should be inconvenienced by your decision ridiculous.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
224. Oh, you think that they're going to be just fine with pumping on the Senate floor?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 02:01 PM
Apr 2018

Nonsense.

Women have always been told that their silly whims concerning the children are "inconveniencing" the men be it nursing, affordable, accessible childcare, or flex time.

That's how they kept women out of the workplace completely for centuries.

Men will always find some reason that their "inconveniences" are tanatamount to being deprived of oxygen... and a woman feeding her child is such a disruption.

That cannot be allowed!!!!!!!!!!


In other news, teenaged girls are being sent home from school because their bodies are "distracting" teenage boys...


Same shit, different verse.

Squinch

(50,949 posts)
320. In what way is anyone inconvenienced by a person putting
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:55 AM
Apr 2018

a child to her breast? Is it the danger caused by the stampede of offended men running away from said person? Is it the pain of averting ones eyes? The horror of icky thoughts? Where is the inconvenience?

Chemisse

(30,811 posts)
234. Omg - you are so funny!
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 02:19 PM
Apr 2018

Throwing out every argument you can think of, however unrealistic, except the real one that bothers you so much.

Perhaps your only experience with babies has been seated next a screaming one on a five-hour flight and that's all you think they do?

I knew several men who were acutely uncomfortable to be in the same room with me while I was (very discretely) nursing one of my babies. Sitting rigidly, eyes veered away, breaking out in a cold sweat (I made that up, but it does describe the level of discomfort). There probably would have been more, but they couldn't tell I was breastfeeding. Perhaps you have a terror of glimpsing a breast portion that is involved in an asexual activity?

mcar

(42,331 posts)
256. "The child is giving up rights to a protective environment" ??
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 03:11 PM
Apr 2018

I know the Senate is dysfunctional but what do you even mean by this? You do realize you are insinuating that Senator Duckworth is a bad parent for proposing this right?

greatauntoftriplets

(175,735 posts)
193. That's very true.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 09:59 AM
Apr 2018

My niece's six-month-old can sleep just fine in the middle of a brightly lit room filled with people talking in loud voices and children running indoors and out.

You might say that she sleeps like a baby.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
83. Then the mother can hand the baby over to a babysitter to take it out. But a nipple
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:03 AM
Apr 2018

in the mouth makes almost any baby stop crying.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
31. But Duckworth has made it clear that this is about nursing. However,
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:33 AM
Apr 2018

she doesn't want to deprive others of feeding their babies. And it really doesn't matter. A baby with a bottle or nipple in its mouth isn't crying.

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
77. Fine.. I applaud you for not trying to inflate your own opinion by claiming I or others have no
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:59 AM
Apr 2018

nursing/child-birthing history and thus can't possibly know. You were NOT so disingenuous as others here and I respect your difference of opinion. What others are doing is just the most debased form of debate, since they think they can't hold their own opinion without trying to diminish others and their experiences. Kudos to you.

Demsrule86

(68,576 posts)
95. I have nursed at the mall and only once was I asked to leave. I always was very discreet. I refused
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:09 AM
Apr 2018

and said they cold arrest me and my three kids if they chose...the police said there is not law against nursing so security backed down. I am pretty militant about this because often is used as tool to discriminate.

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
145. "Those disrputive crying babies."
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:47 AM
Apr 2018

I'd rather have the rare but occasional crying baby than the constantly bitching, lying, traitorous republicans.

The Senate floor is usually empty anyway. I see no problem with it.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
147. I don't think it should be allowed, since it would interfere with the function of the Senate...
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:49 AM
Apr 2018

just as it would at any business. Maybe the Senate could have a nursery in the building, so the babies would be accessible easily. That's what some businesses provide.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
148. I've been in board meetings with a nursing mother, and it was a small conference room.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:51 AM
Apr 2018

When she was done, her nanny took the sleeping baby.

How would that interfere with the "function of the Senate" in that huge room where many wouldn't even really see the baby?

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
280. Oh, I forgot that babies don't cry. My memories of being in theaters & church w/crying babies must
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 09:03 PM
Apr 2018

be false memories.

That's just what I think. But I don't have a vote. I would vote against babies in the Senate, or any place like that where the state's business is being conducted. It would be disruptive.

But a nursery in the building should be fine. The Senator could leave & go check on the baby.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
293. Were those babies nursing in church?
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 07:23 AM
Apr 2018

Somehow I doubt that.

Was there someone who could take the baby once they were done nursing? Probably not - a church service isn't something one leaves and re-enters, much like a workplace.

The Senator must be on the floor for all votes. Any accomodation that requires her to leave the floor is not an accomodation.

She's not talking about turning the Senate into a nursery full of crying babies, she just wants the ban on kids lifted for her situation, and to start a conversation about family friendly workplaces.



How does NZ do it, you think?


New Zealand's new baby-friendly Parliament

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/98699747/new-zealands-new-babyfriendly-parliament

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
338. What working women do....
Fri Apr 20, 2018, 12:32 AM
Apr 2018

is provide their milk, stored, for use later. You don't need to nurse at particular times, anymore. This is hte 21st century.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
339. You do need to pump on a regular basis during work hours.
Fri Apr 20, 2018, 07:17 AM
Apr 2018

Anyone who has pumped would know that.

This is the 21st century and we should be gearing our workplaces to be parent friendly.

The era where you had a full time homemaker doing all that parenting stuff while you work is over.

George II

(67,782 posts)
188. Inasmuch as the Senate has existed for about 240 years (100 members for the last 58 years)....
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 09:52 AM
Apr 2018

....and Duckworth is the first Senator to give birth, I would think this isn't going to happen too often.

It's not like the Senate chambers will be converted into a nursery.

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
5. Sorry, but No.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:19 AM
Apr 2018

Babies have no business being in a workplace. She wants to bring the baby to work? Fine. She can keep it in her office with a babysitter. But in an actual workplace a baby would only cause disturbances.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
33. Babies are in many workplaces. They don't belong on factory floors or dangerous places.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:35 AM
Apr 2018

But they do fine in offices, as long as there is another caretaker who can take the baby to a private place if needed.

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
38. THAT was the accomodation I recommended. NO. they do not belong on factory floors or dangerous
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:36 AM
Apr 2018

places--including stressful environs with bright lights, loud noises, and disruption.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
41. The Senate floor is not full of bright lights, loud noises, and disruption. 95% of the time,
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:38 AM
Apr 2018

it's pretty boring.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
42. So you think that the Senate can work in noisy disruptive environs
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:39 AM
Apr 2018

except if there is an infant present?

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
138. How is a nursing baby going to keep them from doing their job?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:33 AM
Apr 2018

They won't even be able to see it from parts of the floor.

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
160. They will hear it.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 09:05 AM
Apr 2018

Babies don't do what you want them to do. You can't reason with babies. If they feel disturbed, they cry.

There is a Youtube-video where a baby is so horrified by ITS OWN FART that it starts to cry.

Now imagine a baby in a room with 100 talking people and cameras and lights.



Have you ever tried to concentrate while a baby cries?

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
166. I never knew that you can just turn them off and on again.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 09:14 AM
Apr 2018

It's actually simple: You put a baby into a giant room with 100 talking people and a gavel and cameras and lights and when the baby makes trouble, you simply switch it off!!!

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
174. You are confused on what I was saying.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 09:36 AM
Apr 2018

A baby usually falls asleep after nursing.

A baby can nurse peacefully in a noisy situation, and indeed often fall asleep with a full belly in a noisy situation.

The baby can be taken away once the nursing is done.

Is that clearer?

Tarc

(10,476 posts)
255. Your first-hand experience with childbirth issues is a font of knowledge
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 02:50 PM
Apr 2018

I'm sure all the women here are smacking their foreheads in relief and thanking you for your well-honed insight.



pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
326. Easy. You rub their cheek with a nipple. They reflexively turn toward it with an open mouth,
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 01:17 PM
Apr 2018

even if they've just breastfeed a few minutes earlier. Done. The baby's now quiet.

It IS like magic, to an experienced mother. And Duckworth has done this before.

flibbitygiblets

(7,220 posts)
173. Maybe we should ban babies from all public places
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 09:35 AM
Apr 2018

Since they're so inconvenient. Or maybe women folk just shouldn't be in congress.

Pro lifers want it both ways. All pregnancies MUST come to term. And then they never want to hear from them again.

Time for fucking reality, people who want to control women's bodies.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
176. Apparently noisy public places are suddenly unsafe for babies, who can't nurse there...
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 09:40 AM
Apr 2018

Amazing the paternalistic attitudes that show themselves even amongst liberals when babies enter the discussion.

The discomfort that some people have with presence of babies often manifests itself in "concern for the welfare of the child."

Just like "I'm just concerned about the welfare of the child" is still whipped out whenever women want affordable childcare to return to work.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
186. Yep- suddenly it's "those poor, poor children!!"
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 09:51 AM
Apr 2018

After years of putting their education last on the list in budgeting.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
325. Breastfed babies nurse off and on. They fall asleep after breastfeeding and if they're hungry again
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 01:13 PM
Apr 2018

and the mom is holding them, they quietly move their faces back and forth, rubbing their faces on the mother's chest till the mother puts them on the nipple again. There is no reason to cry if the mother is right there. The baby "roots" around -- it doesn't cry because the mother responds to its signals.

Unlike with a bottle fed baby, whose mother might have to leave to go into the kitchen, prepare and warm a bottle, etc.

Have you ever breastfeed a single baby? I doubt it.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
164. Offices, no.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 09:10 AM
Apr 2018

Sorry, I gotta disagree. Babies are just as disruptive in offices as they are anywhere else.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
208. Except the presence of babies is *actually* disruptive.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:59 AM
Apr 2018

Unless, of course, you've discovered a means to keep them from yowling bloody murder between the hours of 7:30 AM and 6:30 PM, Mon - Fri.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
240. What a dumb comeback
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 02:24 PM
Apr 2018

As if anyone nurses 24 hours a day, and it's such a disruption to the work of men.

Strawman much?

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
219. People don't normally nurse their babies 8 hours a day.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:03 PM
Apr 2018

Unless something has changed in the last day or so.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
241. Exactly. The wheels of state will not come to a grinding halt if a baby nurses every few hours
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 02:25 PM
Apr 2018

and is in the care of a provider the rest of the time.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
249. No. Not "exactly".
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 02:35 PM
Apr 2018

Wheels of state? We're not talking about the Senate floor, here. We're talking about workplaces. No working stiff in my socio-economic bracket is going to be picking their infant up from daycare every time it needs to feed.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
294. Well, she's trying to get the conversation started for more workplaces where it is possible
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 07:59 AM
Apr 2018

Do you object because she is highly paid? Is that what your "working stiff" comment is about?

And no, she's not talking about all workplaces, or turning the Senate into a nursery, for pete's sake.

The amount of slippery slope teeth gnashing about an infant is amazing here on DU.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
242. In what way will a nursing baby once every few hours "inconvenience" others on the Senate floor?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 02:26 PM
Apr 2018


(Cue - but when I'm on an airplane, shrieking babies in the cabin on the whole flight make me miserable, and that's how it's gonna be all day in an office with one of them nursing!" )

Soxfan58

(3,479 posts)
23. Someone on the senate floor
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:31 AM
Apr 2018

Drooling, spiting, and pooping in its diaper. They will think jeff sessions is back.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
246. In what way?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 02:31 PM
Apr 2018

Seriously, I would like to know. Because kids come into my workplace, and they are not a problem. Perhaps my workplace has policies that address them as sometimes being present by necessity.

Is someone nursing there? Is that's what is disruptive?

Is the fact that they are allowed into the workplace what is disruptive?

Because they are banned from the Senate floor, and Duckworth is trying to address the ban, not turn the Senate floor into a nursery or playground.

There is a long continuum between the two.

milestogo

(16,829 posts)
274. Noise and distraction
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:50 PM
Apr 2018

People stop working and start talking. Kids run around and make noise, and get into places they shouldn't. They are bored and need to be supervised. I am trying to have a business phone call in my cube and there are child-parent conversations going on in the background. Babies cry and scream, because that's what babies do.

I don't mind people bringing their children by for a few minutes. But they should not be regulars in an office where adults are doing business on the phone and don't need to be interrupted/distracted.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
275. So it's a situation where there are cubicles.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:54 PM
Apr 2018

How often do co-workers talk in the background where you can hear them?

Is it just "child parent" conversations going on? Are others silent?

Are screaming babies "regulars?"

What is the policy in your workplace of noise in general - is there one in writing? Are people in cubicles expected to be silent?

Is your workplace considered "family friendly?" Are there policies in place that allow people to bring children to work?

Were these policies known to you when you were hired - are they in writing?

Do you have children?

All of these things factor into your workplace situation, and your place within it.

Seriously - if there were no policies in place concerning noise in cubicle areas, then you should take it to HR.

You also need to understand that there are some things that HR can and cannot do, and much depends on written policies. This is one example of a comprehensive policy:

https://www.swarthmore.edu/human-resources/children-workplace

Blaming parents who have no policies or guidance or worse, children who are being children, for ineffective HR management is misplaced and futile. If employees are violating policy, then you have an avenue of recourse by going to HR. If HR is ineffective, then you have recourse by appealing to upper management.

If the situation is unaddressed by management and HR, you have the decision to stay and tolerate it, or leave.


milestogo

(16,829 posts)
278. Many people at my company are allowed to work from home.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:13 PM
Apr 2018

But there are rules that have to be followed:

They have to have a separate workspace that is dedicated to doing their job.

If there are children under 12 in the home, there must be adult supervision of the child. And it is understood that the worker cannot be working and caring for the child. If you do not have a supervising adult for your child and need to do it yourself, you cannot also be considered working. You are either taking care of a child or you are working. You cannot be doing both.

If its that way at home, its much more so in the office, where other adults are also trying to work.

Family friendly means understanding that parents sometimes need the flexibility to stay home with sick family members or take time off if they do not have child care. It does not mean that you should be allowed to care for your children while you are actually at work.

People do not bring their children to the workplace when they are working, although they may bring them in for a few minutes when they are not working.

Whether or not I have children is utterly irrelevant to whether I can do my job when there are children in my workplace.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
302. I thought you said that people are bringing kids in to the office and are disruptive
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 08:37 AM
Apr 2018

But then you said this:

People do not bring their children to the workplace when they are working, although they may bring them in for a few minutes when they are not working.


Or is it only a few minutes of disruption?

Vinca

(50,271 posts)
65. Tammy, Tammy, Tammy. The majority only likes babies in utero.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:54 AM
Apr 2018

Once born they're noisy, expensive and generally things to be avoided. Mitch will probably tell her to resign and go home and be a mother to her child . . . seriously. I can hear him saying it.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
247. After they tell her that "they are only concerned with what is best for the baby and mother"
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 02:34 PM
Apr 2018

which is to stay home until the child goes to school, or she's a bad mother.

And she must also, at the same time make enough money to not require public assistance, or she's a bad mother.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
68. Tammy Duckworth may have to breastfeed in a BATHROOM off the Senate floor,
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:56 AM
Apr 2018

says former Senate Parliamentarian.

http://www.newsweek.com/tammy-duckworth-may-have-breastfeed-bathroom-senate-floor-says-former-senate-807393

If expectant mother and Illinois Senator Tammy Duckworth needs to breastfeed her newborn on the job, she's out of luck—and her best options include a bathroom just off the Senate floor, according to a former Senate parliamentarian.

"The Standing Rules govern who has floor privileges," Alan Frumin, who served as Senate parliamentarian for 19 years, told Newsweek. "Family members do not have floor privileges."

That includes nursing infants.

SNIP

"The lack of any sort of policy or accommodation for new mothers suggests that the U.S. Congress remains a bastion of patriarchy on its face," Jennifer Lawless, the director of Women & Politics told Newsweek.

SNIP

There are two Senate rules in particular that can make things difficult for new parents, and nursing mothers especially: Senate Rule 23, which excludes family members from the list of people admitted to the Senate floor, and Senate Rule 12, which requires senators to be present to vote.

Ilsa

(61,695 posts)
157. Her office is in the Hart Senate Office Building.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:59 AM
Apr 2018

The Russell SOB is closer, but not by far.

I think a nursing room should be installed centrally in the Capitol Building. It would be useful for visitors as well as other govt employees.

Ilsa

(61,695 posts)
192. Is it comfortable? A quiet room with soft chairs, maybe
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 09:59 AM
Apr 2018

even a rocker? That would be really great, IMO.

I don't know how this will turn out, but I appreciate what she is trying to do. She is trying to invoke the most pro-family health position, but I doubt the Senate will let her. Sadly, I think it is still a good ol' boys club.

Action_Patrol

(845 posts)
196. Theres no rocker...
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:06 AM
Apr 2018

But there’s a couch and chairs

It’s the ante room of the old House Floor. Historically, it’s where John Quincy Adams died.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
248. Can she vote from there?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 02:34 PM
Apr 2018

No?

Then it's not an accomodation.

The workplace is traditionally set up for men who have a full time domestic at home to handle childcare and other womanly distaff.

If a woman seeks an actual accomodation, then she's trying to DESTROY THE WORKPLACE FOR MEN!!!

TheRealNorth

(9,481 posts)
141. Need to think long-term about this one
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:40 AM
Apr 2018

If you allow this, next thing you know is that all the Republicans will be bringing babies on floor as props for every anti-abortion debate.

 

thewhollytoast

(318 posts)
143. Which will only serve....
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:44 AM
Apr 2018

....to make them look like desperate buffoons they are. I say let the babies in.

Toast

Ilsa

(61,695 posts)
159. I think a nursing room should be installed in the Capitol Building.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 09:05 AM
Apr 2018

It would be useful to visitors and other employees. It could be a quiet room for moms with napping babies and toddlers.

A bathroom is not a good place to nurse. It's difficult to stimulate a let-down reflex in a room that smells like human waste.

hlthe2b

(102,276 posts)
220. Careful, That's what I'm promoting and I was excoriated & accused of "mansplaining"tho I'm FEMALE!
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:05 PM
Apr 2018

(which has been in my profile since 2001) had there been a doubt.

The point is we need to support Senate/Congressional new mothers and their need to breastfeed and have reasonable leave policies, including the ability to come in and out of votes, if needed. Why that can't be the starting premise for consensus dismays me. Not all settings (or infants) are amenable to the same solutions.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
304. That would be great - there are way more female employees in the Senate than just Senators.
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 08:41 AM
Apr 2018

Some people forget that....

Mariana

(14,857 posts)
333. That's an excellent idea, but it wouldn't solve Sen. Duckworth's situation.
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 02:50 PM
Apr 2018

She has to be physically present on the Senate floor to do her job. Fortunately, the Senate have voted to allow her baby into the room.

Heartstrings

(7,349 posts)
175. Has anyone been or worked in a child care facility lately?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 09:38 AM
Apr 2018

Trust me, the infant/toddler rooms are far from quiet, calm, darkened rooms. They're chaotic and unpredictable, and because of state regulations, highly lit. We, child care workers, try our best to take a mothers (or fathers) "place" but there is nothing more soothing for an infant than to be in the arms of his/her mother. The senate floor is not going to harm that child, they are highly resilient, especially in infancy. Pretty sure there will be alternative in place just in case that child should make any males in that large room uncomfortable or cause a "disturbance". Toddlers, however, have no place in that environment imo, they're much too active and inquisitive. Senator Duckworth is not a first time mother, she'll know when it's time for her child's care to be passed to capable hands. At present that infant needs to be with her, and not in a nasty bathroom.

As a two time nursing mother....I stand with Tammy!


marieo1

(1,402 posts)
187. minngal
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 09:51 AM
Apr 2018

They let criminals in congress why not let babies that are nursing in congress. Makes sense to me!! More working new Mothers now than ever before, we should accommodate them.

S.E. TN Liberal

(508 posts)
200. Once babies are officially allowed on the floor, it will be appropriate...
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:34 AM
Apr 2018

...to let republican'ts on the floor also.

Afromania

(2,768 posts)
203. How card is it to just bring in some sort of opaque screen or something and a nice small couch
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:39 AM
Apr 2018

and place it in an out of the way spot off to the side and call it the day. There should be no need for some damn resolution for it to be done, but since there is a need because people are stupid. They need to put this on the hyper speed track and vote it through.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
210. Fuck that
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 11:12 AM
Apr 2018

Sorry babies do not belong on the senate floor.

Voting takes minutes the baby can wait.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
225. Yes, the work of Men will not wait or be paused for mere childcare.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 02:07 PM
Apr 2018

Feeding infants is woman's distaff and has no place among the affairs of men....

And do you know how long it takes to nurse a baby? And if a vote is taken when she starts?

Men cannot be bothered with such trivial matters - even if they claim such trivial things will bring the work of statecraft to a screeching halt.


Fuck that. Women are in the workplace, and men need to grow the fuck up.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
227. They can hold the vote
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 02:11 PM
Apr 2018

and she isn't asking for feeding she is asking children be allowed on the floor. Meanwhile I have three kids of my own I know full well what babies are and aren't and the idea they need to be fed on demand immediately is nonsense.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
233. ahaha
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 02:17 PM
Apr 2018

All of my children were breast fed and we also (gasp) owned a breast pump. Children do not need to be fed instantly ever. The time it takes to vote is not long enough to require special consideration beyond holing the vote open.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
235. Owning a breast pump is not mark of any special knowledge of breastfeeding.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 02:19 PM
Apr 2018

I had one, too, and rarely used it.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
239. So now you don't think that they should hold the vote.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 02:22 PM
Apr 2018

It takes a while to nurse, and to pump when you are away from the baby.

The point, which you seem to miss, is that women can breastfeed without bringing government, or a place of business to a halt, which seems to be the fear here.

Progressive justice, particularly on the part of what is best for women, is usually met with howls of protest that society will be forever damaged - be it the vote, working outside the home, being allowed contraception, having their own bank accounts, participating in the military, running for office...

One more in a long line of temper tantrums on the part of men.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
243. no not at all
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 02:27 PM
Apr 2018

children do not belong on the floor of the senate.

And there is no need for them to be there.

Babies are anoying as hell they don't belong in the workplace. If you are bringing your child to the workplace you are either cheating your child or your work as you can't do both effectively at the same time. not to mention the disruption to the other employees.

And you don't pump on demand you pump in advance for situations that arise so you are prepared for them. Things like say a surprise vote.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
232. From what I understand, they don't hold the vote for anybody.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 02:15 PM
Apr 2018

If you are not on the floor, you don't vote.

She is asking in general terms that this be the start of workplaces accepting that sometimes there will be children's needs to attend to.

Do you really think that she's asking to bring her other child in as well?

You people sound like Duckworth is trying to turn the Senate floor into a nursery.




It's rather easy for those who haven't breast fed to splain to those who are, and are trying to pave the way for family friendly workplaces.

Clearly.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
237. Women find children irritating, too.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 02:20 PM
Apr 2018

Hard to believe, I know, but not everyone wants to spend their workday hanging out with your larva.

The arrogance and presumption of parents knows no fucking bounds.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
245. The arrogance and presumption of adults who forget that babies are human --
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 02:30 PM
Apr 2018

and that they were once annoying babies themselves -- knows no fucking bounds.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
253. I don't enjoy being around babies because I have forgotten babies are human?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 02:44 PM
Apr 2018

Well, you've clearly put a lot of thought into this.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
254. Your enjoyment or non-enjoyment is beside the point. This is about a woman Senator's
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 02:48 PM
Apr 2018

full participation in the Senate, in a way that harms no one except in the most trivial sense.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
257. No, much of the discussion here is broader than one woman in the Senate.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 03:34 PM
Apr 2018

It is about the "workplace", where the presence of children is decidedly less trivial.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
258. The OP is about Duckworth's attempt to bring in her nursing baby and not exclude herself
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 03:38 PM
Apr 2018

from voting. And the precedent will help other breastfeeding Senators.

The affect on the other Senators' experiences will be minimal.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
264. I understand what the OP is about.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 04:17 PM
Apr 2018

I was not replying to the OP. I was replying to a poster talking about "the workplace".

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
310. So what were you talking about here?
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:26 AM
Apr 2018
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210508857#post257


It is about the "workplace", where the presence of children is decidedly less trivial.


Again, Parliament is a workplace. As is the Senate - which is the topic of this thread, and where Duckworth works. We are not talking about operating rooms or factory floors, but the Senate. Parliament is similar to the Senate.

What is the "fallacy of composition?"

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
313. It's pretty straightforward.
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:56 AM
Apr 2018

Are all workplaces legislative assemblies?

The answer is no. Not all workplaces are legislative assemblies. So, when you say people should be bringing their infants to the workplace, you are talking about bringing infants to 1) legislative assemblies, and 2) all other workplaces that are not legislative assemblies.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
315. When did I say that "people should be bringing their infants to the workplace?"
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:09 AM
Apr 2018

Strawman - I made no claims about "all workplaces" or "all parents with infants."

*You* were talking about "workplaces" in general, not me. I was comparing the Senate to New Zealand's Parliament.

I was supporting Tammy Duckworth, who was successful in getting a *ban* lifted, in a specific type of workplace - like Parliament.

Is that clearer?



Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
317. Right here:
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:26 AM
Apr 2018
Women are in the workplace, and men need to grow the fuck up.


This implies that the presence of women in the workplace is reasonably entailed by the presence of infants.

I apologize if that's not what you meant, but that is how it came across.
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
318. No, that is not about babies, that's about women.
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:33 AM
Apr 2018

Many men in the past have decried that women should not be in the workplace as peers, because "they will just leave when they get married" or they are "a distraction."

Often, things like "OMG they'll turn the place into a nursery, see how unreasonable they are?" are a modern excuse for their discomfort of women in the workplace.

Is that clearer?

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
229. it's not sexist to say babies don't belong on the senate floor.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 02:13 PM
Apr 2018

or in any place of business for that matter.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
231. Nursing babies belong in any non-dangerous public place that mothers belong in.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 02:15 PM
Apr 2018

And aside from being bored to death, the Senate floor is not a dangerous place.

George II

(67,782 posts)
259. I really can't understand what everyone's (or some) problem is with this, they're losing the context
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 03:50 PM
Apr 2018

First, in our entire 240 year history only ONE member of the Senate has given birth - ONE! From probably thousands of Senators over the years.

Next, the possibilities of additional members of the Senate giving birth are slight to say the least. One can't serve in the Senate until 30 years of age, well into the childbearing years, and most women (and men) don't even try to get elected to the Senate until they're in their 40s or 50s, possibly long after they're interested in having children.

So, just how many infants will there be in the Senate? Not many at all. There's no danger of the Senate being converted into a nursery or day care center.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
260. I know. It's so overblown. I can't figure out why some people are so threatened by this.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 03:56 PM
Apr 2018

I wouldn't have expected this reaction from progressives.

George II

(67,782 posts)
263. I just looked it up:
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 04:06 PM
Apr 2018

From 1787 through 2014, there have been 1,950 senators TOTAL. Of them, only 51 have been women. That's 51 Senators who have had the possibility of giving birth over TWO HUNDRED THIRTY YEARS!!!!

I won't even get into the age that some were when they were elected, but this is no big deal.

By the way, this was the first woman to serve in the Senate, she wasn't exactly to have a baby and nurse it in the Senate!

Squinch

(50,949 posts)
277. The topic of breastfeeding always brings out the knuckle-draggers here.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 08:01 PM
Apr 2018

And corn flake fried chicken, and Olive Garden.

Response to mucifer (Original post)

Mme. Defarge

(8,030 posts)
252. What next?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 02:43 PM
Apr 2018

The operating room? But at least the patient would have the advantage of general anesthesia, but then might not wake up.

Mme. Defarge

(8,030 posts)
267. Admittedly exaggerating
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 05:26 PM
Apr 2018

to underscore my annoyance at what struck me as an impractical and posturing move.

If you disagree I hope it doesn’t mean we can’t be friends because I do appreciate many of your posts on DU.

Peace,
MD

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
270. Sometimes that's a handy feature.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 05:32 PM
Apr 2018

I remember appreciating it sometimes with my mother-in-law. The older she got, the more she seemed to retain the happier memories instead of the bad ones.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
303. That's some slippery slope there....
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 08:39 AM
Apr 2018

From wanting to lift a ban on bringing a child into the Senate, and then into an operating room in one sentence...

Squinch

(50,949 posts)
266. OK, kids. It's essentially saying that a Senator with a child under one can bring that child
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 04:27 PM
Apr 2018

to the Senate floor. How many Senators have children under one?

This isn't a slippery slope. Just let her feed the kid and vote for our policies!

MichMan

(11,929 posts)
273. What about grandchildren?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 06:56 PM
Apr 2018

Nothing in the OP says anything other than 1 year old babies should be allowed on the Senate floor.

Squinch

(50,949 posts)
276. What about them? If some guy wants to carry his 6 month old grandchild onto the senate
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 07:59 PM
Apr 2018

floor, it would be weird, and it would only be done to say, "Look, I can do it too and see what you have caused here?" But so he carries his grandchild to the floor and then - what?

Nothing. He looks stupid and that's the end of it

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
292. Have you seen the crazy shit republicans have done in the last decade?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 11:40 PM
Apr 2018

Not that that is my objection to it.

I think it is nothing more than pandering to be honest. There is no need for her baby to be with her while voting. Nor is it really appropriate for the baby to be there during voting. Your concentration at that point should be singularly on your vote a baby is a distraction.

Breast pumps exist for situations where you just cant be there to breast feed. I just don't see the need as legitimate. More convenient to be sure but even remotely necessary I am not seeing it.

Anywhere else in the building I am in but on the floor itself.. nope.

Squinch

(50,949 posts)
298. Yes, we do understand some men's fear of breast feeding,
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 08:23 AM
Apr 2018

their belief that it is not legitimate, and their desire that it not be done where they can see it, whether that be in Olive Garden or on the Senate floor.

But most of us, judging by the vote result, see that fear for what it is.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
321. No you don't understand a thing
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 11:08 AM
Apr 2018

Breast feeding does not bother me a bit. It's the screaming baby part in a place where work is being done.

If they just breast fed the whole time there would be no issue since they would be quiet and wouldn't bother a soul.

But the reality is they don't just feed they scream and wail disturbing everyone.

Anywhere else in the building I am good with. Not on the floor.

All of my kids were breast fed exclusively the idea breast feeding bothers me is laughable.

Would not have it any other way.

It's because all my children were breast fed that this bullshit they need to be on the floor does not fly.

I am well aware of what comes with breast feeding and the issues you face.

Squinch

(50,949 posts)
323. Poor dears. So troubled by the presence of infants.
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 11:46 AM
Apr 2018

It's a sure path to chaos and anarchy. And, as you said upthread, such an inconvenience to YOU!

Response to Squinch (Reply #323)

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
297. And she wins! Apparently the GOP led Senate is more progressive on this
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 08:13 AM
Apr 2018

issue than many here.


Senate allows babies in chamber despite concerns from older, male senators


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-senate-babies-chamber-duckworth-20180418-story.html

haele

(12,654 posts)
334. If a senator in Austalia can breastfeed while addressing parliament in 2017, and...
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 02:52 PM
Apr 2018

a Brazilian MP breastfed during debates and in the chamber as early as 2015, why do our US male politicians seem so squeamish?



Haele

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