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kentuck

(111,095 posts)
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 09:54 AM Apr 2018

Cohen's lawyers give Judge Wood 4 names that could be the "Special Master".

Is this for real?

I think we already have a "Special Master"?

His name is Robert Mueller !

I cannot believe this crap!

And why would they think they would get to choose their "Special Master"??

Keep an eye on this folks.

(On edit: I just saw this on a crawler on MSNBC)

44 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Cohen's lawyers give Judge Wood 4 names that could be the "Special Master". (Original Post) kentuck Apr 2018 OP
The judge asked both sides to suggest names. onenote Apr 2018 #1
Sounds like a very slick trick. kentuck Apr 2018 #2
No, that's the way it works. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2018 #5
True and then bluestarone Apr 2018 #4
There should have been no search warrants, if this is the case? kentuck Apr 2018 #7
I do not think Mueller would trust them to turn over bluestarone Apr 2018 #9
This evdence was obtained with a lawful warrant! ooky Apr 2018 #21
Yes my thoughts as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!! bluestarone Apr 2018 #23
I would agree with you that the nature of the search warrants... kentuck Apr 2018 #27
Its absurd. We have procedural protocol already ooky Apr 2018 #38
The point of the Special Master would be to help the judge go through a mountain of seized... PoliticAverse Apr 2018 #43
The prosecutors are supposed to go through the seized evidence, not the judge, or the defense. ooky Apr 2018 #44
The process should be fair to all parties bitterross Apr 2018 #14
I do understand this but bluestarone Apr 2018 #17
Yes, it must be fair. kentuck Apr 2018 #20
Because if both sides can aggree on someone that is acceptable, that person is. n/t PoliticAverse Apr 2018 #3
Because even the most naive person knows that the Cohen side will choose someone to their liking... kentuck Apr 2018 #8
Robert Muller isn't acceptable - he works for the Prosecution side. Do you know what the job... PoliticAverse Apr 2018 #13
Thank you very much for that information. kentuck Apr 2018 #16
Their use is to speed up the process -they're basically an assistant to the judge to make things go PoliticAverse Apr 2018 #22
The available evidence suggests the answer is no mythology Apr 2018 #18
What evidence are you referring? kentuck Apr 2018 #30
Nice try, Tom, but I doubt she'll pick Buns_of_Fire Apr 2018 #6
She can't pick anyone with a possible bias toward or against either party. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2018 #24
Didn't they already reject a special master NewJeffCT Apr 2018 #10
Not entirely. Here's what she ruled: PoliticAverse Apr 2018 #25
David Souter exboyfil Apr 2018 #11
But not Alan Dershowitz? kentuck Apr 2018 #12
Ted Olson? exboyfil Apr 2018 #15
ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! bluestarone Apr 2018 #19
No. You don't seem to understand what a special master does. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2018 #26
I would agree that the special master should be someone... kentuck Apr 2018 #31
Do you not trust this highly-respected judge to do her job? The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2018 #32
I trust that she is the best person we could find... kentuck Apr 2018 #35
That's what judges have to deal with all the time. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2018 #36
fully agree here soooo? bluestarone Apr 2018 #37
It wouldn't be unreasonable to appoint a special master The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2018 #39
+1000 kentuck Apr 2018 #42
Cohen already has a partial win because bluestarone Apr 2018 #28
Procedurally, each side can suggest Special Masters for court review. Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2018 #29
David Denison? John Baron? Putin or Kim Jong Un? imanamerican63 Apr 2018 #33
It would be very helpful to the discussion if SomethingNew Apr 2018 #34
NPR this morning.. BoneyardDem Apr 2018 #41
As an obviously biased person will be turned down, each side will propose respected attys. Shrike47 Apr 2018 #40

bluestarone

(16,940 posts)
4. True and then
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:01 AM
Apr 2018

everyone will fight about the judges decision!! I just wish she would make the decision and be done with it!! I guess i do not understand the reasoning that more people involved would be better????

kentuck

(111,095 posts)
7. There should have been no search warrants, if this is the case?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:05 AM
Apr 2018

They could have subpoenaed them and let them hand over whatever documents they wanted and be done with it.

There should be no "special master" since Robert Mueller is already the Special Counsel. If this ties into the Russia investigation, which it very well might, then Mueller will want the evidence.

bluestarone

(16,940 posts)
9. I do not think Mueller would trust them to turn over
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:11 AM
Apr 2018

What he wanted? I sure as hell would not trust Cohen for anything! I believe Mueller did everything right. I just wish the judge would do what she believes is right. (make a decision)

ooky

(8,923 posts)
21. This evdence was obtained with a lawful warrant!
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:26 AM
Apr 2018

Which is why this "special master" stuff makes zero sense.

The judge should let the prosecutors do their job and allow them to review their lawfully obtained evidence. Then if there is any evidence they decide to use which is subject to "attorney-client priviledge" or "executive priviledge", then the judge can just rule not to allow it to be introduced into the hearing, like a normal court hearing.

kentuck

(111,095 posts)
27. I would agree with you that the nature of the search warrants...
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:37 AM
Apr 2018

...would make it difficult to choose someone of Cohen's choosing?

ooky

(8,923 posts)
38. Its absurd. We have procedural protocol already
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 11:11 AM
Apr 2018

to prevent priviledged evidence from being introduced into the court record. The judge makes these rulings and doesn't need outside help to do it. That's why she is a judge, we are supposed to trust her to do her job. But this administration fights the rule of law at every turn because it is always on the wrong side of the law. The judge should not be giving in to that. The only correct ruling here is no "special master - we are going to follow our established rule of law." There is no way to pick outsiders to make this determination, either side will be questioned as partisan. To even allow this should result in an automatic motion to appeal by the government. This is a bs exercise.

PoliticAverse

(26,366 posts)
43. The point of the Special Master would be to help the judge go through a mountain of seized...
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 12:25 PM
Apr 2018

evidence in order to speed up the process of deciding what can be used at trial and what can't.

Has nothing to do with whether the warrant was legal or not.

The Special Master works for the court.

Think of the Special Master as a knowledgeable assistant to the judge helping to reduce their workload.

ooky

(8,923 posts)
44. The prosecutors are supposed to go through the seized evidence, not the judge, or the defense.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 01:48 PM
Apr 2018

That is not the judge's job. The prosecutors do that and then the prosecutors can present the evidence they want to use and the judge rules on the admissability of that evidence. Asking the defense to participate in sorting through the seized evidence, either directly or indirectly, before it comes before a judge for a ruling does not seem right. That way important evidence could be discarded before the judge ever sees it. However this process will be organized the judge must be allowed to rule on every piece of evidence that is deemed priviledged by anyone but her.

 

bitterross

(4,066 posts)
14. The process should be fair to all parties
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:19 AM
Apr 2018

That is the basic thing to understand. Sometimes, that makes it take longer and be more complex. The hope is that, in the end, justice is served.

If Hillary were in office I have no doubt there would be any number of investigations going on. All of them would actually be witch hunts. We would certainly want to ensure the process was fair and not run by people we believe were completely biased.

The appointment of the special master is one way to maximize the fairness and remove the argument from the defense that the people who decided what gets used and what doesn't were simply the prosecutors who wanted to win at all cost. We would expect no less if a President from our party was the accused.

bluestarone

(16,940 posts)
17. I do understand this but
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:24 AM
Apr 2018

I'm willing to bet neither side will be fully agreeable to the Judges final decision. ( I hope i'm wrong on this) This could become a mess!!

kentuck

(111,095 posts)
20. Yes, it must be fair.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:26 AM
Apr 2018

But, if we have learned anything from the past, it will be accused as being "rigged" from the beginning.

That is the manipulation that must be restrained.

kentuck

(111,095 posts)
8. Because even the most naive person knows that the Cohen side will choose someone to their liking...
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:06 AM
Apr 2018

...they are not going to choose someone like Robert Mueller.

PoliticAverse

(26,366 posts)
13. Robert Muller isn't acceptable - he works for the Prosecution side. Do you know what the job...
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:18 AM
Apr 2018

of a "Master" is? They work for the court, not the Prosecution or Defense.

From: https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/rule_53

(a) Appointment.

(1) Scope. Unless a statute provides otherwise, a court may appoint a master only to:

(A) perform duties consented to by the parties;

(B) hold trial proceedings and make or recommend findings of fact on issues to be decided without a jury if appointment is warranted by:

(i) some exceptional condition; or

(ii) the need to perform an accounting or resolve a difficult computation of damages; or

(C) address pretrial and posttrial matters that cannot be effectively and timely addressed by an available district judge or magistrate judge of the district.

(2) Disqualification. A master must not have a relationship to the parties, attorneys, action, or court that would require disqualification of a judge under 28 U.S.C. §455, unless the parties, with the court's approval, consent to the appointment after the master discloses any potential grounds for disqualification.

(3) Possible Expense or Delay. In appointing a master, the court must consider the fairness of imposing the likely expenses on the parties and must protect against unreasonable expense or delay.

(b) Order Appointing a Master.

(1) Notice. Before appointing a master, the court must give the parties notice and an opportunity to be heard. Any party may suggest candidates for appointment.

...



kentuck

(111,095 posts)
16. Thank you very much for that information.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:22 AM
Apr 2018

I was not aware of it.

But, I could see how it could be manipulated and used to delay the process. Hopefully it will have some strict guidelines to prevent that?

PoliticAverse

(26,366 posts)
22. Their use is to speed up the process -they're basically an assistant to the judge to make things go
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:27 AM
Apr 2018

faster (in this case).

Also if both parties can agree on the person to be appointed special master that means there won't be time consuming
challenges to that person's appointment by the judge.

kentuck

(111,095 posts)
30. What evidence are you referring?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:48 AM
Apr 2018

We have not yet seen the evidence??



Although Mueller must have seen "something" in order to refer it to the Deputy Attorney General, who then referred it to the Southern District?

Buns_of_Fire

(17,177 posts)
6. Nice try, Tom, but I doubt she'll pick
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:02 AM
Apr 2018

(1) Ivanka Trump,
(2) Jared Kushner,
(3) Melania Trump, or
(4) Barron Trump

PoliticAverse

(26,366 posts)
25. Not entirely. Here's what she ruled:
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:33 AM
Apr 2018
"I'm denying the motion for a (temporary restraining order) because it's currently moot. The government is not accessing anything," the judge declared. "With respect to a preliminary injunction, that, I think, is premature at this point. We have to wait and see what the volume is and how you can argue."

Instead, the judge split the decision, ordering both sides to return with an estimate of the volume of evidence that could be covered by attorney-client privilege and then she would decide the expedient way of handling that review.

"I have faith in the Southern District US Attorney's Office that their integrity is unimpeachable," Wood said. "So I think that a taint team is a viable option."
The judge said she would decide whether a special master would adjudicate what investigators can access, as requested by Cohen.
"In terms of perception of fairness -- not fairness itself, but perception of fairness -- a special master might have a role here," Wood said. "Maybe not the complete role, but some role."


From: https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/16/politics/michael-cohen-hearing/index.html

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,693 posts)
26. No. You don't seem to understand what a special master does.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:36 AM
Apr 2018

A special master is a neutral person who acts as a judge for a specific, narrow task. Whoever is chosen will be someone who is demonstrably not biased toward or against either party. That person would definitely not be someone who has appeared on TV and offered an opinion about any aspect of the case or the parties involved. Chances are that if a special master is appointed that person will be someone who is a well-credentialed lawyer none of us has heard of.

kentuck

(111,095 posts)
31. I would agree that the special master should be someone...
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:51 AM
Apr 2018

"...who is demonstrably not biased toward or against either party."

"Should be..."

kentuck

(111,095 posts)
35. I trust that she is the best person we could find...
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 11:00 AM
Apr 2018

...and that she is seeking advice from others. Because no one, not even judges, know everything.

But, she will have to be fair and understand that no matter whom she chooses, one side will say it is rigged and they cannot get a fair hearing.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,693 posts)
36. That's what judges have to deal with all the time.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 11:03 AM
Apr 2018

There is no reason to believe this judge will make a decision that is unfair. Trump's people always claim that a judge's ruling that is not in his favor is rigged and unfair. So what?

bluestarone

(16,940 posts)
37. fully agree here soooo?
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 11:07 AM
Apr 2018

I'm comfortable with this judge to make final ruling on her own! (no special master involved). What are your thoughts here? You think she would be right in that decision, OR could this mess up things and give appeal ( of here decision)advantage to Cohen?

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,693 posts)
39. It wouldn't be unreasonable to appoint a special master
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 11:14 AM
Apr 2018

just because of the sheer volume of the materials somebody - either the judge or the SM - is going to have to review. Federal judges have heavy caseloads and it would make sense to delegate the job to someone else. Apart from that consideration, I have every reason to believe the judge herself could decide on her own which documents are privileged. Judges always have to make decisions on the basis of the law and without having to consider whether one party will appeal or whine that the decision is unfair.

bluestarone

(16,940 posts)
28. Cohen already has a partial win because
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:41 AM
Apr 2018

His position is to SLOW DOWN THIS PROCESS!!(that's his goal) That's why i feel the judge needs to make the decision, not special master.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,182 posts)
29. Procedurally, each side can suggest Special Masters for court review.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 10:43 AM
Apr 2018

It's the ultimate discretion of the judge to choose any of them, or none of them.

 

BoneyardDem

(1,202 posts)
41. NPR this morning..
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 11:23 AM
Apr 2018

...had some good descriptions of the job and it's limitations and under what types of circumstances a special master is called in. Made much of the chatter in this thread, superfluous really. You are correct

Shrike47

(6,913 posts)
40. As an obviously biased person will be turned down, each side will propose respected attys.
Wed Apr 18, 2018, 11:18 AM
Apr 2018

Each side can propose 4 attorneys as special master. If you propose 4 obviously biased people, then none of your proposed SMs will even be in the running any more. The judge will chose among your opponent’s suggestions. Experienced attorneys will propose respected members of the bar who they think will follow the law. The judge is not going to appoint somebody the judge doesn’t think well of. Your local mob attorney is not going to be appointed, nor a television personality. She might well appoint a retired judge.

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